Talk:Antemoro people/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Tezero (talk · contribs) 07:09, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

I suppose I ought to review one of someone else's GANs seeing as I've got my own on the bulletin board, heh. On an obscure Malagasy ethnic group, too - hardly "Europe's most wanted". Cool.

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

• "Distribution of Malagasy ethnic groups" - might want to mention that the Antemoro's is the darker violet

• The Antemoro purple is the second darkest of the three, and explaining that in the caption would be unnecessarily wordy.

• As for the second image, is this woman an Antemoro?

• I don't know her ethnicity. The only thing that can be stated with certainty is that she's making Antemoro paper.

• The article's a little confusing on one issue, specifically in a conflict between the intro and second section: Are the Antemoro simply the descendants of the original Arab settlers, or are they a separate ethnic group with genetic admixture of both Arabs and Malagasy? The woman doesn't look 100% Arab, as diverse a population as Arabs are.

• You're right, I can see how it could be interpreted that they remained purely Arab. I've added a point about integrating through intermarriage to make it more explicit that this is ultimately what did happen - the Arab community intermarried with the local Malagasy population in order to find a foothold in society there. Further intermarriage among all Malagasy ethnic groups since that time means that very few Malagasy can claim to be 100% one group or another. The physical differences among ethnic groups are relatively minor, as are language and culture. But prior to colonization these ethnic divisions were a little more significant, and the Antemoro had a unique reputation and niche in society - but hadn't looked 100% Arab for hundreds of years. Still today some people with Antemoro background look a little more Arab than the average Malagasy - it varies. So hopefully adding the point about intermarriage is enough to make it clear that there was a gradual assimilation, physiologically and culturally.

• I'm not quite sure I see the point of the level-3 headers under Society or Culture. I'm not against having level-3s at all; these just carry very little content.

• Agreed. I'm writing articles on all the ethnic groups, and information from reliable sources is really limited for many of them. But for consistency I'm applying the same outline from an FA article on a non-Malagasy ethnic group in order to apply some kind of high quality standard for the structure used across all of them. That's why I've got subsections here that have relatively little info. My preference would be to keep them as is for consistency.

• On the other hand, History could likely be divided into two or three subsections.

• It could be done, although I'm not sure it's warranted - there would be just one paragraph or so in each section. If I find enough information to expand this further and have at least 2-3 paragraphs in each sub-section, I would split it at that point.

• The first paragraph of the intro is quite long - I won't object based on this alone, but it's rather unseemly.

• Split into three.

• Are you sure they live on the "southeastern coast" of the island? It looks more center-east, and not on the coast.

• That one is a different ethnic group. The colors on the map are sometimes tricky to tell apart... tough to get 18 totally different tones on one small map.

• "Like the related Antanosy ethnic group" - how are they related?

• It explains later in the history section that the Antanosy are an offshoot of the Antemoro. But I removed it from the first section because it doesn't seem like the right place to explain that.

• I can't help but think the tiny first section would be best merged elsewhere, perhaps its information merged into multiple sections.

• I'd prefer to keep this, like the other short sections, for the sake of consistency in application of the FA standard outline for ethnic group articles.

• Anyway, haven't looked much at the prose yet; I'll be back for that.

• Thank you for taking the time to look this over. Like you say, articles about relatively unknown ethnic groups don't attract the same attention as pop stars and Vital Article topics, so your review is much appreciated. - Lemurbaby (talk) 10:47, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

More, Lemurbaby:

• "Andriamahazonoro was among the party of three who served as the first ambassadors to Britain and Mauritius before dying in 1838 from tangena poison administered in a trial by ordeal during the reign of Queen Ranavalona I." - Ambiguous; did all three of these people die in 1838 from tangena poison, or just him?

Changed to specify it was just him.

• Is there any more information on the Antemoro dialect of Malagasy?

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a source that provides more detail, but if I do, I'll add it.

• I've copyedited some awkward or inconsistent wording. If you're going for FA I'd suggest pursuing an additional copyedit, because there are a few rather rambling sentences that are likely to be picked apart there. Not an issue for GA, though.

Noted - thanks for the edits.

• "Those who transgressed were mourned as if dead and were entirely cut off from the community" - Interesting. Is there any information on what would happen if they returned to the clan? Would their former clanmates simply pretend they weren't there?

Again, constrained by the limits of the resources so I can't say for sure. But I'll keep an eye out for anything that can expand the article further.

• Stay consistent on whether you're italicizing ombiasy.

I've italicized on the first instance in the lead and again in the body.

I think that's it. Tezero (talk) 01:07, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Lemurbaby, it's been a week. Are you still planning on finishing this? Tezero (talk) 22:07, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I've been laid low by a virus. Feeling better now, so I've responded to your second set of points. - Lemurbaby (talk) 17:37, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Additional comment from Iselilja. Hello Lemurbaby. It's a fine article, but it may seem this is a topic where it can be difficult to find good updated sources for some aspects. The economy section starts "Many Antemoro work as ombiasy and earn their livelihood selling their services as astrologers, sorcerers, or crafters of powerful amulets; it is common for men to travel for six to ten months out of the year". This is sourced to a 1904 source; and I would think it may be appropriate to write this somewhat in past tense, like I see you do for some other topics; maybe write something like "traditionally they used to work as..." Regards, Iselilja (talk) 18:01, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

That's fine. Lemurbaby can do that if she finds a good way to; either way, I don't consider it a major issue so I'll be passing this. Tezero (talk) 19:21, 25 November 2014 (UTC)