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Author:Please can someone check this page, and if anyone knows further information then please add. This was written in conjunction with the honor of a victim, my grandads brother. RIP.
This is the first article i have written so it may need fixing? Looks fine to me though.
ECMS 20:51, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
What you have written is complete and utter nonsense!!! He IS part of my family and i am not ashamed of it nor am i proud of it! But what you have written is mostly lies and you should be ashamed of yourself, Despite whatever he has done he is still a Human Being, and does not deserve people like YOU spreading TOTAL RUBBISH like this! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.41.64.55 (talk • contribs) 20:14 20 April 2007 (UTC)
All information was provided from news articles and backed up by memory of the victims brother. In the opening discussion also outlines that it needed improving. To address some of your comments, he is no human being in my book he is less than an vicious animal, nor does he deserve anything other than 4 walls never-mind any respect. Reliable sources shows he was in debt and it was a premeditated crime. No one mentioned your family but we do not regard you as "victims" nor co-conspirators. Your claims about him being "kind, caring and loving person" makes me cringe, this mass murderer killed his colleagues whom trusted him in cold blood. It is not kind to kill anyone, it is not caring to inhumanely kill people, allegedly he was the cause of your partners death, very loving and considerate to his family then. Ive added news sources bellow, and hope to see additional information to be added to the article. --ECMS (talk) 12:44, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
Hello, anonymous editor. You sound like you have a very healthy attitude about your relative, and I congratulate you for it and agree with you. It appears that you might need a bit more information about Wikipedia. There are lots of rules around here, and we can't just go around adding and deleting things willy-nilly. One of the things is that everything written here has to been referenced from a reliable source and no Original research is allowed. The problem with what you have been doing is that you have been deleting information that comes from a reliable source (The Times articles of the time, for example). Since I have read the original Times articles about the case, I can assure you that the information about the debt and the car were reported during the trial. If you can find a appropriate reliable source for your information that he was not in debt etc, then that would be great, and the information can be added to the article. Unfortunately, your personal knowledge from your family isn't Verifiable and is Original Research and therefore can't be used. Good luck with your search!!Slp1 21:35, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
understood ;) I DO have his bank statements from this time in my possession proving he was not in debt, as i am an immediate family member (i would like to stress i am in NO WAY PROUD of this , but you cant change the family you where born into, :) ) The REAL reason he done these unforgivable crimes was not for any money i can assure you, we( the family ) think he just snapped, as there is a long line of mental and psychological problems in my family, So please don't believe everything you read in the tabloids ;) as my information is a lot more accurate than you will find anywhere else, ( not trying to be smug but it is true ). We (my family) Disowned him a LONG time ago as you have no idea the kind of trouble HE caused! People coming upto you in the street saying " hey thats your ******* isn't it? where did he hide the f**king money!!!" my partner of 10 years who i loved Very Very much and had three kids with, was stabbed (AND KILLED) because she didn't know where he left the money, So as you can imagine i don't exactly love Andrew to bits but, after everything that has been done i still remember him from before he went in the Army, he was believe it or not a kind, caring and loving person, but he changed almost over night, and just one more thing i would like to point out to you, He wasn't unpopular in the army infact he was well liked as i met alot of his friends from the army, nor did he tend to brag about anything,
I Do hope this will clear a few things up, as i probably knew him better than ANYONE, and i would like to say i am sorry for your loss, but our family were victims too especially my partner whose killer was never found..........
Any other information you would like to know (within limits) please just ask :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jointwind (talk • contribs) 16:27, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
- Hi, your response appeared while I was typing what I did below. I am actually not the person who started the article (the one whose relative was killed) but I did do a lot of research on the article, looking at the sources to make the story as complete and fair as I could. I certainly appreciate your honesty and realize how incredibly difficult it must have been for his family, and the suffering and loss you have faced as a result. My sympathies. Notwithstanding this, there are a couple of things:
- Unfortunately the bank records and your memories are classified by WP as Original Research. Just click the link to find out more. This cannot be included according to WP rules. Was anything ever written in a newspaper or a book that confirms your information about the debts and his relationships with his army colleagues? If so, that is just fine and we can change the article to include it. But we need to find it written down somewhere else first with a reference and everything.
- As noted below, the information about the debts and the other soldiers comes from the Times (not a tabloid, as you will be glad!) and it is quite reasonable for this to be included since it comes from a Reliable Source according to WP standards. As a result, I will be putting it back in shortly, to be changed if you are able to come up with a reference for your points.
- A final thing: you will understand that part of the reason for these rules is that on the internet nobody has any idea who anybody else is. I am quite sure that you are his relative and have personal knowledge of Mr. Walker and his financial situation, but there is no guarantee that in another situation somebody might pretend to have inside knowledge about something and put in lies and untruths. This is the reason that WP has such strict rules that you cannot put something in unless you can prove it by something that has been published elsewhere. I hope that helps and I really hope that you can lay your hands on the sources that will prove your point. Good luck! --Slp1 17:06, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Debt issue edit
Below is a transcription of the Times article of Saturday, May 18, 1985; pg. 3; Issue 62141; col A. I can email a copy of the whole article to anybody who would like to see the original. Just send me an email from my talkpage.Please note, I have removed the family names out of respect for their confidentiality.
"Walker's record as a regular soldier was first class. He had three tours of duty in Northern Ireland, on one of which he was mentioned in dispatches.
But to his Royal Scots comrades, who nicknamed him "Billy Liar", he was a compulsive braggart, telling tall stories with himself as a star. He had no close friends and was generally unpopular. With his swaggering went a need for money.
The crime was, in the words of one senior police officer, a simple military solution to Walker's desperate lack of money. At the end of 1984, when faced with a 2000 pound car bill, his solution was to order a 8,500 pound MG Maestro, claiming he would pay cash on delivery in February. At the same time he owed 900 pounds to Access, the credit card company. He told his wife, XXXX, aged 27, who lived in married quarters with their children XXXX, aged seven and XXXXXX, aged four, that he had found a cache of money on one of his many solitary walks."
Based on this, I believe that the article is well-sourced concerning his financial situation and the attitudes of his fellow soldiers. Please do not delete the information again, and only add verifiable, sourced information as described above. The editor might also want to look at the conflict of interest guidelines. --Slp1 16:43, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Additional News edit
I wont be able to write this up elequently, but recent articles about the Mass Murderer: http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/scottish/scottish_news/279359/Widow-is-devastated-as-husbands-killer-boasts-of-getting-Army-medal.html
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Payroll-murderer-has-his-jail.2373730.jp
Family related to one of the victims. So I keep an eye out on news, looks like he is ILL but has been out shopping at TK Max. --79.121.154.141 (talk) 12:07, 9 March 2010 (UTC)