Talk:Always on the Run (Isaak song)

Requested move 18 February 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. MOS:CT is clear on this. No exception for "multiword phrase" exists, only "compound prepositions" and "phrasal verbs". "on my own" is neither of these, so the Supports have the stronger MOS-based argument here. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 17:55, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

---

Always On the Run (Isaak song) → Always on the Run (Isaak song) – Wrong capitalization; on streaming services, it is titled "Always on the Run". I made a redirect with that title when it initially first won its selection for Eurovision, so I have to move it via this method. Cheers, and carpe diem! Nascar9919 (he/him • t • c) 02:59, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

• Support. A discussion under the technical request decided to keep this article here and to move the one about the homonymous Lenny Kravitz song on the basis that the expression is idiomatic, but I fail to find support to the argument in the manual of style. Prepositions go in lowercase. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 13:54, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

  Here is a link to that prior discussion at WP:RMTR. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 02:56, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

• Comment. I'll save my !vote until after a bit of discussion. The Lenny Kravitz viewpoint is actually somewhat compelling and that's because if it weren't idiomatic it wouldn't make sense. To be proper English otherwise it would have to be "always on a run" or "always running" for example. @Nascar9919: I think if you want to make a better case for the move, you should at least include these streaming refs you refer to somewhere because the only refs in the article are all German and none of them support this move. Grk1011 (talk) 15:28, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

  (Clarifying my comment above) I also think that there is a point and I do not question the phrase to be idiomatic, but I couldn’t find the MOS rule supporting the argument that prepositions used idiomatically should take uppercase. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 15:43, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. As I said at the technical request, this isn't a normal preposition as in some entity called Always which is *on* something else called the Run. Rather, on the run is a single indivisible multiword phrase which is treated as a single unit as part of this capitalised proper name title. As such, it is akin to the similar case Dancing On My Own, which was agreed for the same reasons a few years ago. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 22:25, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

  The argument is clear. The point is another: where does the MOS support this argument? Why do idiomatic prepositions need to be treated differently? ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 22:41, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

  This title contains "On the Run", not "On My Own". Also, soon after the RM for "Dancing On My Own", JFG pointed out Out Here on My Own, Living on My Own, 'Til I Can Make It on My Own, Standing on My Own Again, and Try It on My Own. More than seven years later, all of those remain at those titles. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 03:10, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

• Support per MOS:CT. I'm not a grammar expert, but it looks like a preposition to me (regardless of whether its use is idiomatic). I just reverted the renaming of the Lenny Kravitz song. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 00:20, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. I have to agree with Amakuru here and there is past precedence in this same scenario with "Dancing On My Own" as they've pointed out. If on were just an ordinary preposition in the title, then the meaning would be very different (and incorrect). Additionally, there are still no sources listed in this discussion nor in the article itself to support the claim of the nominator that the current title is wrong based on streaming services; my quick search showed "Always on the run" [1][2], which is not what is being suggested. Grk1011 (talk) 02:33, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
• Support – here "always" is an adverb, and "on the run" is an ordinary prepositional phrase. Why are people saying this is complicated? n.b.: I've also started an RM on 4 articles that got this wrong, compared to the many that have it right, at Talk:Dancing On My Own#Requested move 21 February 2024. Dicklyon (talk) 07:37, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
• per the comment by Grk1011, "Always on the run" may be the proper name of this song. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:34, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

  Nouns like "Run" are by rule always capitalized. The question raised here is whether "on" should or shouldn't be as well. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 15:45, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

• Support per MOS:CT. "On" is clearly a preposition here and "on the run" being an idiomatic expression doesn't change that fact. Darkday (talk) 16:27, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
• Support Per MOS:CT. On is a preposition in this case. The lyric is: I'm always on the run, run, run, run[3]. Analysing this: I (subject) am (verb) always (adverb) on (preposition) the run (object, noun phrase with definite article). See also Cambridge and Mirriam-Webster definitions and examples of when on acts as either a preposition, adverb or adjective. Cinderella157 (talk) 10:29, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.