Talk:Alistair Cooke/Archive 1

Archive 1

Knighthood

There is the claim that Alistair Cooke could not be called Sir Alistair. I'm not sure this is the case. The issue is well discussed at http://www.heraldica.org/topics/usa/usnob.htm. A knighthood in UK usage is not an order of nobility. It cannot be inherited. It appears there is nothing to prevent a foreign state awarding an honour up to and including knighthood, and apparently no bar on using a handle so awarded. (US citizens have inherited UK titles for example, and and not barred fomusing them.) The rule is different if one is adhering to the US. Common sense suggests one can call oneself what one wants unless one sets out to deceive. I suggest the sentence is cut, as it comment on titles not on Cooke.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2005‎ 213.78.145.81 (talk • contribs) 17:40, 21 May (UTC)

Non-Commonwealth citizens can be given awards from Order of the British Empire. However, they are not allowed to use the honourific 'Sir' (see article). If Cooke recinded his UK citizenship when he took up US Citizenship, then he wouldn't have allowed to use 'Sir'. The UK allows dual-citizenship from birth, I don't know what the UK position is when a person takes up foreign citizenship, nor do I know what the US position is on dual-citizenship at all. CS Miller 17:51, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

Alistair Cooke became a U.S. citizen in 1941 and hence lost his British nationality at that point. The United Kingdom only removed restrictions on dual citizenship in 1949. See History of British nationality law JAJ 16:28, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

This recent edit says something rather different. It says he retained dual citizenship and his knighthood was not honorary but substantive. Why, if that's the case, was he not known as "Sir Alistair Cooke"? -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 03:17, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

The recent edit you refer to was a pile of unreferenced cobblers. It has been reverted, and I've included some further information. --Simon Harley (Talk | Library). 14:27, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Seeking a quote citation

I remember only inexactly that the esteemed Mr. Cooke once said something about all times being terrible and frightening in their own way, and that this should never discourage anyone from having a child and bring that joy to the world. Can anyone give me the quote and its source? Thanks!— Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.150.77.203 (talk • contribs) 23:18, 2 September 2005‎ (UTC)

Cause Of Death?

The Wikipedia article has: Cooke died at midnight on March 30, 2004 at his home in New York City of congestive heart failure. He had been ill with heart disease for some time. whereas the Daily News has: The celebrated broadcaster and actor died March 30, 2004, of lung cancer that spread to his bones.. Which (if either) is correct? DavidFarmbrough 14:35, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

The Guardian's article on the subject,[1], carries an interview with his step-daughter who states that he died of bone cancer, and she should know. Although, given his age and the state of his health, I doubt an autopsy was carried out so I don't think a precise cause of death is actually known (congestive heart failure is often used, wrongly, as a euphemism for "death from old age"). I'll change the passage to reflect the fact he had cancer, but I will refrain from listing an actual cause of death. I hope this is OK with everyone. Rje 01:30, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

A precise cause of death is known. He died from lung cancer that had metastasized to bone, at least according to the BBC, who should know[2].

By the way, lung cancer that spreads to bone should never be called bone cancer. Bone cancer is cancer that originates in the bone and is vastly different from lung cancer both in appearance, in how it responds to various drugs and forms of radiation, and in its prognosis. For all intents and purposes they are completely different diseases and should be considered as such.

I've updated the page and added a link to the BBC story for those wanting verification. --Charlene.vickers 05:53, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

I think that the removal of a precise cause is the correct line to take - it is probably futile in many cases to try to pin it down to one cause; hence many death certificates show primary and secondary causes. DavidFarmbrough 09:08, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Longest-running show?

Please see Talk:Letter from America for discussion on whether LFA was indeed the longest-running radio show. sjorford (talk) 17:25, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Engagement

"Aware that war was in the offing, Cooke fled to the United States in 1937, this time for good: He became a naturalized citizen of the United States at the first opportunity in 1941 and remained there for the remainder of the war. Cooke's fiancée had remained in England to face the menace of war and soon broke off their engagement in disgust[citation needed], devastating him (but not enough for him to return to Britain and be drafted like his contemporaries, including many British actors who returned from Hollywood to Britain at the outbreak of hostilities)."

What's this drivel? Cooke emigrated permanently the late 30s, with his wife, no less, so this is libellous nonsense. I'll come back and change it after I've checked the facts. This is exactly the reason nobody trusts Wikipedia. FreeMorpheme 00:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Media beginnings

"Baldwin, the prime minister's son, had been fired by the BBC as film critic". This is more likely to have been Oliver Baldwin than Arthur Baldwin, but either way there is a Wikipedia article about each. I've not read the biography of Oliver Baldwin that is cited, and am unlikely to do so in the near future, but in the meantime it would be helpful if someone with more knowledge than I have could create the appropriate Wikilink.CWO 20:55, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Daughter

His daughter is The Reverend Susan Cooke Kittredge.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Anon user (talk • contribs) 19:42, 29 November 2006‎ (UTC)

Host of "Omnibus"

My first memory of Alistair Cooke was as the host of "Omnibus" in the early 1950's. Why is there no mention of this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.178.18.214 (talk) 05:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC).

Cooke's racism and homophobia

Cooke was clearly a man of his time (his time chiefly being the 1950s) and it seems patronising not to mention that many of his views were utterly outdated (and embarrassing to his listeners) by the time of his death. He made several bungling comments on the question of race during the 1990s (many of which are easy to find on the internet), and even his sympathertic biographers were forced to admit his hostility to gay people. Moreover, his overt sympathy for the Republican Party in his later years is certainly worth mentioning. Lionising Cooke without mentioning his faults, and above all mentioning how anachronistic many of his views had become by tyhe last decade of his work, is just silly. Add a section on criticisms of Cooke - and (even from those who respected him) there were many. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.8.102 (talk) 22:45, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Cooke was raised in 1910s, early 20s Lancashire England, was educated at Cambridge, Yale and Harvard in the 30s and became an active correspondent in the late 30s and 1940s - that was his time, if one can use such terms so indiscriminately. The onus is on you to list any examples where he may sound out of place today. Just saying it exists on the internet is useless. Then you have to list supposed examples of his overt sympathy for the Republican party. And I would be interested to see which biographers "were forced to admit" his hostility to gay people; The late Nick Clarke did nothing of the sort. At some point I will update this page and expand on it, I think that Cooke, "lionised" or not, deserves a better potted biography on here. Harlsbottom (talk) 14:41, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I listened to great many of his broadcasts in the last 10 years of his life and I always found his views very topical and current (and with current events nicely put in the context of history). I did not notice any anti-gay or racist views. He seldom expressed his own political views, prefering to be impartial. Sometimes he sympathised with a particular point of view. However, even if he supported Republicans, that would not be an outdated view. Unless the Republican party ceased to exist in 1950s. BorisG (talk) 15:12, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

This seems egregious

This seems quite a travesty to put on the overly short bio of a great man. Let's keep the focus on what matters, and not focus on the ridiculous and gruesome actions of vandals after his death:

"On December 22, 2005, the New York Daily News reported that bones of Cooke and many other people had been surgically removed before cremation by bodysnatchers working for a tissue-recovery firm. The thieves allegedly sold the body parts for use in (among other things) dental and bone implants. Ironically, the cancer that Cooke was suffering from prior to his death had spread to his bones, making them unsuitable for transplant and implant therapies. Reports indicated[2] that the people involved in selling the body parts altered the cause of death and reduced his age from 95 to 85. Soon after, Mr. Timothy O'Brien, the owner of the New York Mortuary, was implicated in involvement of the harvesting of Cooke's bones."

May someone please delete this? Thank you. Softlavender 08:26, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

This is an encyclopedia, not a fan page. While unfortunate, the theft of Cooke's remains was a widely reported event which has led to criminal charges. It is factually well documented, e.g. the BBC article linked in the page. 71.162.248.100 (talk) 02:58, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Methodist father and Irish mother?

The opening mentions his Methodist father and Irish mother. You could say English father and Irish mother, or Methodist father and Catholic mother (I only use English and Catholic as examples, I know very little about the man), but Methodist and Irish are not comparable.

Mikevegas40 (talk) 07:12, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Ethnicity — attention needed

Please note that his entry as Anglo-Irish is self-contradictory when applied to describe ethnicity. The term does not mean what a person is according to parentage but rather how a person identifies. Of course, there is an outside chance that Cooke identified as Anglo-Irish but that would require a source. He may have felt more one than the other, then again he may have chosen to identify by a totally different demonym. He may yet in his 95 years have changed his ethnicity on many occasions. The nature of the infobox does not make things easy. On the same note, rather than having American-British for nationality, it is better to state that he had dual-nationality, and was a citizen of both Britain and the United States. User:Evlekis (Евлекис) 23:53, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Fulbright Award

Is it really necessary to list the recipients of the The Fulbright Alistair Cooke Award in Journalism on this page? It does not seem to be pertinent to the man himself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.71.59.99 (talk) 06:09, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I think it is. - BorisG (talk) 15:04, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Trans Atlantic Quiz-BBC Radio during World War II

I lived in the UK during the war and seem to remember Alastair Cooke having a weekly radio program where he and professor Brogan(?) sparred back and forth on many aspects/subjects of life in the U.S and the U.K as a test of their respective knowledge of these countries. It was a very informative program but I have never seen a reference to the program as a part of Alastair's early radio experience. I hope my memory serves me correctly but can anyone comment on this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dawyoung (talk • contribs) 20:47, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Second daughter, Holly: Doesn't she deserve to be mentioned?

http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/1999/oct/20/features11.g22 User:JCHeverly 19:36, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

As far as I can figure, Holly was Jane's daughter by her first marriage. (Alistair Cooke was Jane's second husband, after her first husband died young.) So - if I'm right - she wasn't actually "out man's" daughter. But if there is something to be written about Holly that is significant/relevant to A.Cooke, feel free to add it! Especially if you can include a source. That's the way Wikipedia works. As for your choice of the verb "deserve" ... I'm not sure anyone actually deserves to be mentioned. But that's probably just me being grumpy. Success Charles01 (talk) 20:06, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Are you related to Mr. Grumpy? Inside joke. I am trying to locate a PBS obituary/epitaph program that aired shortly after Cooke died. Among a number of things it mentions Holly, who I think was adopted by Cooke. As you can tell from the article above. She fell in with a cult while spending a summer in England with her half sister. She was never shown on camera, but the cult really fucked with her mind and she had to go through deprogramming once her parents got her back.User:JCHeverly 20:39, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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1941 nationality

In 1941, did Cooke formally renounce his British citizenship? If so, can we have a citation? Perhaps a link to his Declaration of Renunciation from the Home Office.

Otherwise, unless Cooke did something to have his status as a British citizen revoked, he continued to be a British citizen after 1941.

Becoming a citizen of another country does not automatically make a person a non-British citizen.

So, do we know that Cooke renounced his British citizenship? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.77.234.81 (talk) 03:01, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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