Talk:Addie Joss Benefit Game

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Z1720 (talk) 01:10, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

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Addie Joss

• ... that the 1911 benefit game for Addie Joss (pictured), a predecessor to the Major League Baseball All-Star Game, included nine members of the Baseball Hall of Fame?

• Reviewed: 3rd QPQ of 7 from Template:Did you know nominations/1935 New York anti-lynching exhibitions
• Comment: The 2021 Major League Baseball All-Star Game is scheduled for July 13, and I would appreciate this being held for that day's special occasion.

Moved to mainspace by Muboshgu (talk). Self-nominated at 01:35, 21 May 2021 (UTC).

• Review. Article is new enough. Article is long enough. QPQ is done. Copyvio is clear apart from repeated names which is not copyvio. The only issue is the hook, which is cited, but seems to imply that this benefit game was somehow global rather than a one off. It could be adjusted as below or other alts added. Desertarun (talk) 20:08, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

• Alt1 ... that the 1911 benefit game for Addie Joss (pictured), included nine members of the Baseball Hall of Fame?

• The thing is that I'd like to tie it to the MLB All-Star Game. While there is no direct link (I looked through Arch Ward's columns advocating for an ASG in 1932 and he never referenced Joss), there are enough columnists that have made the connection that it's not WP:OR. I've found, this book, The Day The All-Stars Came Out: Major League Baseball's First All-Star Game, 1933, which talks about the Joss game in the first chapter. There's also articles there that I hadn't clipped yet, like "All-Star Game has Wisconsin roots", which says the ASG was "inspired" by the Joss benefit game.
• So here's ALT2:

• ALT2 ... that the 1911 benefit game for Addie Joss (pictured) was an all-star game that included nine members of the Baseball Hall of Fame? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Muboshgu (talk • contribs)

• Comment. I'd like to say yes but it is too difficult a call for me. I'll ask for another reviewer to have a look. Desertarun (talk) 17:07, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Sure thing, Desertarun. ALT2 is verified. Muboshgu, this was lingering for a while so let's roll with it. You'll see I made one minor tweak to the article, for DYK rules. I kind of skipped over the baseball info since it would just put me to sleep. Drmies (talk) 16:28, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
  • Drmies, make sure to read it at bedtime with a nice cup of chamomile tea then. Thanks for the check mark, I'll reinsert that material with a valid citation later. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:55, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
• I just moved this into the special occasions area. And while the ASG will happen on July 13, it won't start until I think 8pm Eastern time, in which case it will already be July 14 UTC, so I request that this go into the prep set for 00:00 July 14, which will mean it is up when the 2021 MLB All-Star Game is actually under way. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:06, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Addie Joss Benefit Game/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk · contribs) 17:11, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

I will be reviewing this! Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 17:11, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

References

• Refs look good! (I did indeed take your suggestion about getting the WP:Library card—thanks for letting me know about it!)
  • Great, glad you did! – Muboshgu (talk) 00:17, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Lead

• Lead looks good!

Background

• Link Ernest Barnard
  • Done, didn't realize he was notable. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:17, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Organization

• Perhaps give the name of Joss’s widow.
  • Added her name and the kids to the "Background" section. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:41, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
• According to the SABR article, it looks like Walsh had planned to participate (hence his mention in the newspapers) but was unable to. I would rephrase it thusly: “Each team sent at least one player, with the exception of the Chicago White Sox. Though White Sox pitcher Ed Walsh had originally agreed to participate and even volunteered to pitch the entire game, Chicago’s schedule ultimately prevented him or any other White Sox players from attending.
  • Reworded to something similar. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:17, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
• ”Cobb made an anonymous donation” – “Cobb made what was initially an anonymous donation”
  • Done – Muboshgu (talk) 00:22, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
• Link Boston Red Sox (not mentioned earlier)
  • Done – Muboshgu (talk) 00:17, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
• According to Baseball-Reference, the Dayton minor league team was the Veterans.
  • The source doesn't mention it, and Dayton Veterans is a red link, so I think it's okay as it is. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:22, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
• ”There were no expenses” – I would change this to “No compensation had to be paid”, since there might technically have been some expenses (travel, utility bills, etc.).
  • I took it out. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:23, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

The game

• Should rosters be cited?
  • There wouldn't be a problem citing the All-Star roster. But, this brings up an issue with the Cleveland roster. There was no one site that said "these are the guys who were on the roster for Cleveland on July 24". I used B Ref to see who was on the team at the time, player page by player page. I guess I could cite each one individually? – Muboshgu (talk) 16:25, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
  • According to the Baseball Hall of Fame, the panoramic photo shows Joe Birmingham, Terry Turner, Jack Graney, unidentified, Art Griggs, Fred Blanding, unidentified, Ivy Olson, unidentified, Cy Young, Joe Jackson, Bill James, Cy Falkenberg, Vean Gregg, George Stovall, Willie Mitchell, unidentified, Nap Lajoie, Syd Smith, unidentified, Neal Ball, Ted Easterly Eight unidentified! And I've listed one person too many, it appears. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:24, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
  • The players I have listed in the roster that are not identified in the photo are George Kahler, Gene Krapp, Gus Fisher, Jack Mills, Hank Butcher, and Tim Hendryx. But that's six people. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:35, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

    I think I solved the issue by removing the Cleveland roster, which I can't fully verify, and sourcing the all-stars. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:49, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Game summary

• I would list the starting pitchers somewhere in the article.
  • Added to "Game play" – Muboshgu (talk) 16:22, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
• Should the boxscore and lineups be cited?
  • I added the recap reference, which has the boxscore and inning-by-inning recap, to the linescore template. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:19, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Legacy

• Minor thing—first two sentences start with “In,” so maybe reword the beginning of one of them?
  • Fixed – Muboshgu (talk) 17:25, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Looks good! Just a few minor fixes. Let me know once you’ve done these, and I’ll give the article another look! Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 17:40, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Sanfranciscogiants17, thanks! I'll try to get around to it today. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:18, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Sanfranciscogiants17, I took longer than I thought to finish but I think it's ready for you to reexamine. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:49, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Muboshgu Looks good now, passing. Excellent work! Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 22:03, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Sanfranciscogiants17, thank you! – Muboshgu (talk) 22:44, 26 August 2021 (UTC)