Talk:Adams, Pennsylvania (disambiguation)

Proposed merge of Adams Township, Pennsylvania into Adams, Pennsylvania (disambiguation)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

To merge Adams Township, Pennsylvania into Adams, Pennsylvania (disambiguation) as splitting the content is unhelpful to readers; a subsidiary move proposal hasn't been contested or supported. Klbrain (talk) 09:19, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

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No reason to fragment this content.  // Timothy :: talk  12:58, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

• The suggested merge is in the wrong direction. There is only one location known as "Adams, Pennsylvania". The Adams Township, Pennsylvania disambiguation page has existed since 2002 while this completely unnecessary disambiguation page has existed only since 2015. Better solution would be to delete this page and simply place a hatnote to the township disambiguation on Adams, Pennsylvania. older ≠ wiser 13:11, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

• Merge, as proposed. As covered at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Adams, Pennsylvania (disambiguation), which has run since February 8, although O ≠ W disagrees, there are multiple places which are sometimes known as "Adams, Pennsylvania", in particular three formal township (Pennsylvania) places. These should all be covered in one disambiguation page serving readers looking for any one of them. The merge suggested here is what several persons independently suggested in the AFD discussion. --Doncram (talk) 21:35, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
• Support merge. Having two cross-referenced DAB pages with only five distinct entries is needlessly fussy. DAB pages are supposed to direct readers to where they want to be as simply as possible. Narky Blert (talk) 11:02, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

• Comment: Hey User:Sandstein punted in closing Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Adams, Pennsylvania (disambiguation), deferring to decisions to be made here on this page. I guess everyone participating in that AFD should participate here instead, and in the next section (requested move). Ping User:Hog Farm, User:Shhhnotsoloud, User:JPxG, User:UserBob, User:EdGl, User:CAVETOWNFAN. User:TimothyBlue, User:History DMZ, User:MB. --Doncram (talk) 20:47, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Please consider also consulting the editors at Wikipedia:WikiProject Pennsylvania and/or Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. counties for further guidance, especially if no consensus appears to be the outcome again. I'm remaining neutral. Cordially, History DMZ ^{(HQ) † (wire)} 21:57, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

• Lean oppose - Townships seem to be rarely referred to simply by name portion with "Township". The townships are just WP:PTMs. Hog Farm _Talk 20:50, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

  Comment. From my experience as a DABfixer, that is not the case. I often come across ambiguous links like Anytown, Anystate where our article is Anytown Township, Anystate or Anytown Township, Anycounty. Narky Blert (talk) 20:52, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

  Example diff. Narky Blert (talk) 09:59, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

  I don't think that example is directly comparable. It is a case where the township surrounds a more densely populated settlement with the the same name that has incorporated as Freehold Borough, New Jersey. And both share the same postal code with the name "Freehold, New Jersey", so it is hardly surprising that there can be confusion. N.b. -- the post office does not recognize any place named "Adams, Pennsylvania". older ≠ wiser 11:25, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

  Comment, actually it is accurate observation although complicated. Many, but by no means all or even most townships have a settlement within them having the same name. In such cases, it is natural to refer to the settlement as "Anytown". But where there is no settlement sharing the name, it is relatively uncommon except in the most casual of references, usually where the context is clear, to refer to the township without the township. older ≠ wiser 22:39, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

• Support merge per others and as I stated at the AFD. MB 20:56, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
• Support. I support moving the entries from Adams Township, Pennsylvania to Adams, Pennsylvania (disambiguation) and then blanking and redirecting the former to the latter, creating a sustainable disambiguation page. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 08:40, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
• Support first moving Adams, Pennsylvania → Adams, Armstrong County, Pennsylvania and then merging and redirecting Adams Township, Pennsylvania into the Adams, Pennsylvania disambiguation page which would have WP:NOPRIMARYTOPIC. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 08:45, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

  Y Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 09:20, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 19 February 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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• Adams, Pennsylvania (disambiguation) → Adams, Pennsylvania
• Adams, Pennsylvania → Adams, Armstrong County, Pennsylvania

– Move disambiguation page to "Adams, Pennsylvania", as multiple other places sometimes known as "Adams, Pennsylvania" are more likely targets of reader interest. It seems the Adams in Armstrong County is a GNIS location, but I cannot find any other usage. Looking at the given coordinates in Google maps and satellite view, it appears there is no "community" there currently. The prominent buildings there are the Sugarcreek Township Fire Department and the Sugarcreek Township Municipal Building, and there is a small house (where someone named Adams once lived?), and no signage indicating "Adams" in any way that I can find. It is implausible that this not-really-much-of-a-place is the wp:PRIMARYUSAGE of "Adams, Pennsylvania"]. Doncram (talk) 21:29, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose, there is at present only one article on a subject named "Adams, Pennsylvania". The townships and county are rarely known as simply "Adams" unless the context is clear. If there really is no "there" there for the place in Armstrong County, the page should be deleted, not moved. older ≠ wiser 21:37, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

  The GNIS location is in Armstrong County. It is accurate and fine for the place's article to be located at Adams, Armstrong County, Pennsylvania, which was/is a redirect. It is not necessary to delete that, for reasonable people to see that any usage meaning the Armstrong County place is measly, and that disambiguation should be at "Adams, Pennsylvania", whether or not the Armstrong place article exists or not. W ≠ O should have said they'd support that deletion or not, but either way opposing the move of the disambiguation page just does not make sense, IMHO. --Doncram (talk) 05:57, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

  Right, it is listed as a populated place in GNIS. As we've seen in other AfDs, simply having an entry in GNIS is not sufficient for to establish notability for a standalone article. I've indicated elsewhere in the sprawling morass of these related discussions, I'd have no problem at all with deleting the one-line article currently at Adams, Pennsylvania and redirecting readers to the disambiguation at Adams Township, Pennsylvania. So if you accept GNIS as authoritative, there is only one place in Pennsylvania with an article named exactly "Adams". older ≠ wiser 11:26, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose. There's only one Adams, Pennsylvania. There are three Adams Townships and one Adams County, but none of them would be titled "Adams, Pennsylvania". We could add a hatnote pointing to the Adams Township, Pennsylvania dab page on the off chance that someone is looking for one of those. Station1 (talk) 00:29, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
• Comment Pay attention to wp:PRIMARYUSAGE. The usage by the public of "Adams" are almost certainly almost always referring to the Adamses (townships, apparently) in three different counties than Armstrong; i doubt there are ever any references to the Adams in Armstrong county Thank you O ≠ W for acknowledging that there are usages "when the context is clear" to a given writer; note that the context will not be clear to some/many readers, and neither the writers nor the readers are wrong and bad people for that. --Doncram (talk) 23:03, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. If there is going to be a consolidated disambiguation page (per the merge proposal above) with counties, townships and towns, it makes sense for the base name to be used by the town, consistent with other cases. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 08:43, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

???? There isn't a town. Several !voters are assuming it exists, swayed by Wikipedia. Wikipedia's usage of the term "Adams, PA" to refer to a GNIS location does not make it exist. Maybe/probably it was a community, as there is a grain of truth/info in almost all GNIS listings. I can't prove, and don't want to try, to fully delete what I think should remain instead at Adams, Armstrong County, Pennsylvania. But "Adams, Pennsylvania" will almost always mean something else, and it is natural for it to be the disambiguation page. --Doncram (talk) 05:52, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

You're correct that it's not a town, and I don't assume that it (still) exists, but it did exist at one time. As the article says, it's a "historical community". The main source is from 1879. It had a post office from 1853-1903 and was called "Adams, Pennsylvania". The other things are not properly called "Adams, Pennsylvania". They are properly called "Adams Township" and "Adams County". If someone mistakenly looks for a township or county under this title, a hatnote is all we need to point them in the right direction. Station1 (talk) 08:48, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

• Support. This is en.wikipedia not usa.wikipedia, and the term Adams, Pennsylvania is clearly ambiguous. There are enough entries to make a separate DAB for this place name useful, rather than merging with Adams which would be another possibility. And incidentally, there's no mention of the places in Pennsylvania at the DAB at Adams, which needs fixing. Andrewa (talk) 18:35, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

• Coment I'm really rather astonished at the support votes for a patently unnecessary disambiguation page. At present there is only one article with an ambiguous name (and that arguably could be deleted as failing notability for WP:GEOLAND). The county and townships might occasionally be casually referenced as simply "Adams" where the context is clear -- but they would rarely be referenced as "Adams, Pennsylvania" -- and certainly not in reliable sources. The only disambiguation needed already exists at Adams Township, Pennsylvania (disambiguation).

  Andrewa, Adams Township (disambiguation) and Adams County (disambiguation) are both listed on Adams (disambiguation) as is customary for such partial title matches that have their own disambiguation page. I have added the former community named Adams. older ≠ wiser 20:26, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

  Point taken and thank you. I still adhere to the former policy of placing the reader first, and it seems to me that this DAB serves a useful purpose with no downside. There are many ways of working, and one additional mouse click for some readers is a small price to pay for ensuring that all readers find the page they want. And I'm really rather astonished myself that this is controversial, but there you are. Andrewa (talk) 21:19, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

  But this is so frustrating. The townships and county are not known as "Adams, Pennsylvania". Now if article for the former community is moved (or deleted), I think it would be more sensible to turn "Adams, Pennsylvania" into a redirect (akin to {{R from incorrect name}}) to the township dab rather than moving the township dab. The ONLY disambiguation page needed already exists at Adams Township, Pennsylvania (disambiguation). All that is needed is to link to the township disambiguation page from Adams, Pennsylvania. There is no additional information in recently created Adams, Pennsylvania (disambiguation). older ≠ wiser 21:56, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose per OlderWiser, ShhNotSoLoud, Station1 etc. The name commonly and primarily refers to the main town, with others given their more explicit titles. I don't see a pressing reason to deviate from the normal way of doing things here, nor to create a dab page.  — Amakuru (talk) 14:08, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nomination and Andrewa. The two-sentence, sixteen-word stub is not the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. On the other hand, I would also partially support the alternative proposal by older ≠ wiser aimed at merging of Adams Township, Pennsylvania and Adams, Pennsylvania (disambiguation), but without specifying a primary topic, thus obviating the use of "(disambiguation)". —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 08:34, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.