Talk:Activ Solar

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Dispute on link to Klyuyev's brothers

Latest comment: 12 years ago7 comments2 people in discussion

This, this, and this source link Ukraine's deputy prime minister Andriy Klyuyev and his brother Serhiy Klyuyev through SLAV Beteiligung GmbH to Activ Solar. This information has been continuously removed from the article by user:Ksenofontoff and user:Christiankkk without any explanation. As these are reliable source, I will restore the stable version if no reason provided why this information should be removed from this article. Beagel (talk) 15:33, 28 November 2011 (UTC)Reply

Restored information about claims to be controlled by Klyuyevs. Both versions are added to avoid problems with WP:NPOV. Before removing, please discuss. Thank you. Beagel (talk) 18:33, 28 November 2011 (UTC)Reply

User:Ksenofontoff continues to downplay claims published by Ukrayinska Pravda, Kyiv Post etc saying that these publications are "gutter press referring to untrusted sources". However, that kind of statement is POV. I can't see any other reason for changing previous neutral wording about what is said by one sources and what is said by other sources, rather than whitewashing the potential links between this company and above-mentioned businessmen/politics. User:Ksenofontoff also makes controversial statements saying that "there is clear information about who is owner in Austrian company register" (which is anonymous P&A Corporate Trust) and "more reliable sources inform that company is owned by austrian investors." Liechtenstein-registered anonymous Trust is not the same as Austrian investors. Therefore, I will restore the neutral version.

There is also very clear WP:COI issue about User:Ksenofontoff. The only other edits beside of this article and this company-owned solar parks is creation of Serhiy Klyuyev and Ukrpodshypnik Group (owned by Klyuyev) articles and uploading File:Klyuyev.JPG attributed as own work. Beagel (talk) 10:34, 30 November 2011 (UTC)Reply

One more interesting and confusing thing about user:Ksenofontoff's edits. As mentioned above, before November 2011, the only edits of user:Ksenofontoff were articles Serhiy Klyuyev and Ukrpodshypnik Group (company owned and headed by Serhiy Klyuyev [1], article is now deleted) and uploading images of Klyuyev (File:Klyuyev.JPG and File:Klyuyev.jpg (now deleted)) and the headquarters of Ukrpodshypnik (File:Ukrpodshypnik, Donetsk, Ukraine.jpg. On 25 November 2011, this user uploaded the logo of Activ Solar (File:Activ Solar Logo.jpg) and edited the Okhotnykovo Solar Park article (this solar park is owned by Activ Solar). However, the first time the linkage between Klyuyevs and Activ Solar was mentioned in this article was only on 28 November 2011 or three days later. Of course, this is may be co-incident, but that kind of co-insident is quite unlikely if there is no link between Klyuyev and Activ Solar. For this reason, a full disclosure of potential COI is needed. Beagel (talk) 17:16, 30 November 2011 (UTC)Reply

User:Beagel is putting on the page untrusted information from gutter press, while all information about company exists in open access. Please supply your info with links to TRUSTED and OFFICIAL resources and not from tabloids. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ksenofontoff (talk • contribs) 10:52, 30 November 2011 (UTC)Reply

I disagree calling Kyiv Post or Ukrayinska Pravda gutter press. If you think that these sources are unreliable, please ask comment from Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard. At the moment there is no justification for removing these references and I would like to ask you to restore the previous version. That version included all different viewpoints (from media and from the company) per WP:NPOV without giving any preference to any of them. The former version clearly indicated which sources said what. Removing different viewpoints is considered POV and does not allowed in Wikipedia. It is even more relevant as there are contradictions between what is said by Austrian register and what is said by the company (please see my previous comment above).

I also disagree that links to Klyuyev and Yanukovich does not belong in this article. As the company (according to sources you removed) had get state subsidies from Ukraine, this potential linkage is highly relevant.

You did not say anything about COI issue. Your previous edits clearly indicates potential connection to Klyuyev and his businesses (starting article about Klyuyev; taking close picture of him; starting article about Klyuyev investment company). This is a situation which needs explanation if you continuously try to remove all cited links between Activ Solar and Klyuyevs.

Finally, I would kindly ask you to remove the personal attack above or provide evidences that support your claim. I believe that personal atatck was not your intention; however, in its current form this is insulting and should be removed. Thank you. Beagel (talk) 15:07, 30 November 2011 (UTC)Reply

As there was no response to above-mentioned concerns here or AN/I noticeboard, I will restore the version before User:Ksenofontoff edits. Particularly:

restoring citation needed tag to office locations, which was removed without any explanation. I believe that this information is correct but certainly there are reliable source to verify this claim.
restoring reference that polysilicon production started in 1964. There was no reasonable explanation why this reference was removed.
removing Bloomberg's reference after sentence about different products and production capacities as this reference does not contain this information. However, this reference could be used for fact that Activ Solar is a owner of Semiconductors Plant.
restoring claim by Ukrainska Pravda/Ekonomichna Pravda that P&A Corporate Trust is linked to the owenership of Ukrainian president's residence. As explained above, as Active Solar receive subsidies from Ukrainian state (both for solar parks and semiconductors plant), these claims are relevant. If necessary, it could be added that this is claimed by Ukrainska Pravda (although reference followed immediatly the claim in the version before Ksenofontoff edits.
removing labeling of sources such as "ukrainian oppositional gutter press" and "more reliable source". As I suggested above, if you think that Ukrainska Pravda and Kyiv Post are not reliable sources, please ask comment from Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard. So far this was not done.
Removing unsourced statement "More reliable sources inform that company is owned by austrian investors." I would like also to say that claims that the company is owned by Austrian investors are made only by company's officials in their interviews. That kind of direct answers to questions about their company are considered primary sources which are less reliable than secondary sources.
Restoring references that CEO Kaveh Ertefai, is Serhiy Klyuyev's son-in-law.

I would like also notice that as Ksenofontoff did not commented his potential COI issue (although he edited this article and talk page after the issue was raised), in light of above provided evidences he should be considered as COI-editor. Therefore, I would like to ask user Ksenofontoff to follow the relevant guide (WP:COI) and make edits only according to WP:AVOIDCOI. Beagel (talk) 10:16, 3 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Bogdan Klyuyev

Latest comment: 11 years ago4 comments2 people in discussion

According to this source by Bloomberg, Bogdan Klyuyev is a business developer manager of Activ Solar LLC (Ukraine). According to this source by Ukrainska Pravda and this source by Kommersant Ukraina, Bogdan Klyuyev is a son of Andriy Klyuyev. It is quite a co-incident if there is no relation between Activ Solar and Klyuyevs. It seems relevant information to be added. Mentioning that Bogdan Klyuyev is a son of Serhiy Klyuyev instead of Andriy Klyuyev was a mistake and this is corrected now. Beagel (talk) 20:52, 5 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Dear Beagel, I am about to slightly modify this page to make it up-to-date, since Bogdan Klyuyev should not be presented in Key people list. Activ Solar has more than 1600 employees, with about 100 managers and only a dozen of top-management persons listed here – which is a key people list (with Bogdan is not mentioned there). Business processes in a company are managed by Executive Directors and the Management Board, which means that encyclopedia has to highlight them (as it does for any other company), but not other employees. Bogdan Klyuyev is not an Executive Director or Member of Management Board of the company. ZotovS (talk) 14:02, 10 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

I have no problem with removing his name from the infobox (but not from the body text). Giving interview to the agency like Bloomberg on behalf of the company makes him more than just one of the 1,600 employees. Beagel (talk) 17:55, 10 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

Thank you Beagel, I have removed Bogdan from the infobox. ZotovS (talk) 13:14, 11 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

Owners

Latest comment: 12 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

It's need to be mentioned that user with IP 213.164.4.58 now is trying to delete all information in Ukrainian and English Wikipedias about brothers Klyuev as owners of company. There are few journalists researches in Ukraine that proves Klyuevs to be an owners. --Divega (talk) 14:22, 27 June 2012 (UTC)Reply

External links modified

Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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