Talk:ASH: Archaic Sealed Heat/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Panini! (talk · contribs) 03:24, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Here I am; I'll get to this most likely this Monday, so see you then! Panini!^🥪 03:24, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Wow, I didn't know Satoru Iwata worked on this one! That's exciting. I'll be posting each section review individually, so if you're present, you can work on changes while I'm reviewing to help with better communication. Here we go.

Infobox -  Done

• The game's directors are cited in the lead but not elsewhere. If there's no comfortable way to fit this in prose, I'd shove some refs in the infobox. If you can't find a source, citing the game's credits can work (see PMTOK for examples of this).

• Side note, no matter the editor and no matter the experience, I describe to everybody as if they're gonna follow up with further questions, so don't take this as me treating you as inexperienced if you feel that way, it just saves time on reviews.

Lead -  Done

• I don't think the fan translation is notable enough to be included in the lead, being poor fan content and all. The sentence can be removed and merged with the one before it ("...and published by Nintendo for the Nintendo DS exclusively in Japan.")
• I was gonna comment that the lead could be longer if needed, but it fits the scope very well. Maybe you can touch on development and release a bit more? Apart from that, Good Job!

Gameplay -  Done

• I think the image caption can describe what it's picturing a little more. I know it explains it in prose, but usually, it helps to put text alongside an image so readers can have their "Oh! That's what they mean" moment. For example, I like what they do at Final Fantasy VII, which you have worked a lot on it seems.
  • Expanded it a bit.
• Do any of the reviews touch (no pun intended) on the game mainly using the stylus? It could go well with a source, but it isn't necessary.
  • The "IGNinfo" source confirms is near-exclusive use of stylus, and using the same reference twice in succession for two sentences seemed redundant and messy.
    • I assumed it involved something with that source, but I checked to make sure.
• Frankly I'm an Oxford comma user myself ("...with chests yielding items, equipment or in-game currency.") but it doesn't matter. It's fine. I'm not mad. Really.
• I'd link CGI
  • Done.
• "During player-initiated battles, actions are selected for each character from a menu, including a standard attack, a magic spell or attack if possible, using an item, defending, a standby in which a unit does not act during a turn, special skills dubbed Arts, cinematic attacks dubbed EX Arts, and fleeing battle" This is a very long sentence; I see now that it is listing off what the player can do, but it could fare some tricks so that this info is stacked like Tetris pieces rather than circles in the readers' mind. Does that make sense? Maybe the use of a semicolon somewhere, or splitting up standard and special actions into two different sentences can help.
  • Took the semicolon route.
    • Looks much better! It's easy to follow along with now.
• I'd link experience level
  • Done.
• "If Aisya is defeated, the game ends and must be restarted from an earlier save point." I would put "despite other party members still present" somewhere to distinguish the importance of Aisya.
  • Rephrased.

Plot -  Done

So, I'm a Mario guy. It's my favorite series! That means my mind has been dumbed down to only understanding "Peach is gone ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" so I'm not really getting much Plot action. Hopefully, this should encapture a reader who isn't familiar with traditional RPG games, to help make it understandable to all readers.

• I'm also just now getting that the ASH isn't read out as letters like a series title and that it's referencing the ash warriors. It's my dumbed-down mind, I warned you about this.
• "but at the game's opening" -> "but in the game's opening"
• You also made me go back and use the word "dubbed". Inspiring.

• Scratch that.

• I'd link coronation. It's something us gun-shooting hotdog eaters don't do in 'Murica.
  • Done.
• I think the only reason I'm following along with this is that I keep thinking, "Oh, like Raya and the Last Dragon but more complicated." I think I made it. This is well written! Kudos to you. You did good encapturing the plot while keeping it brief, and considering its complicated RPG-ness you did a good job making it understandable.

• I would suggest citing the plot in some cases to help give the reader a better understanding of things. Mainly the line, "They also learn the Salamanders are manifestations of the planet's will summoned by human conflict, and they must restore the balance between the benevolent white and malevolent black energy."

Around this point, I went on a rabbit hole after clicking on Raya and the Last Dragon. I discovered that Hugh Jackman had a cameo in Free Guy through this rabbit hole. I have the attention span of a goldfish.

Apologies in general for the plot, but it's mostly the plot's fault that it's so convoluted, not helped by the fan translated footage I had to grind through. Also, the information about the Salamanders and the energy balance is spread across approximately half of the game, and even this is the most condensed I could get without hacking away pieces of plot that would make other uncuttable sections unintelligible. Also also, the only way I could cite this is by citing the game itself which seems a bit of an own goal for a plot synopsis.

That's frustrating, but as long as it is written to your absolute best that's perfectly fine, especially because I don't have the time or the tools to check it myself. When I was working on fixing Super Paper Mario for GA, I looked at the 11 hours of gameplay I had to watch to rewrite the synopsis and decided to hunt down ThomasO1989 for help. Very thankful for their work! Considering how good enough of a job you did, this section is alright where it's at.

Development -  Done

• "The game was in its concept stages during early 2005. Production lasted approximately two years." These two sentences can be combined.
  • Done.
• The DS hasn't been mentioned or linked in a while, so I would call it by its full name and link it in this first mention here.
  • Yes it has been linked and mentioned after the lead, in the gameplay.
• What's Tactics? Is it linkable?
  • Tactics is Final Fantasy Tactics, using the full title seemed redundant as it had already been introduced/linked.
    • Yep, that's just my brain that couldn't differentiate between the purple (clicked) hyperlink and the black text around it. I think that's my inferior temporal gyrus's fault. Stupid temporal gyrus. "Inferior" is right.
• I'd also link what you mean by "traditional RPGs", I'm assuming it's role-playing video game.
• "did not do on a project" -> "didn't do on projects"
  • My experience with Wikipedia is that outside direct quotes, it's poor form to use contractions.
    • Well that's harsh. You couldn't've put it another way? I've ne'er heard such mean words before. I'm'o leave right now, a'ight? Cya ‘round.

Release -  Done

• "Sakaguchi confirmed that Mistwalker was working on a DS title in February 2005. Its official title was announced in October of that year." These two small sentences can also be combined.
  • Done.
• This last paragraph doesn't seem to fit here as much as it would in Reception, due to it covering its fate in North America and its addition in Ultimate. Maybe move this down to Reception as Legacy with a new subheader? If you do this, than the Release would be pretty small, so I would then combine it with Development with a smaller subheader as well.
  • This game is so niche it doesn't have a legacy, it's not involved directly with development, and reception would just not be right. I've done this kind of incorporation before for Fatal Frame: Mask of the Lunar Eclipse among others.
    • That's fair. Well, unfair to the game, but fair in this context.

Reception -  Done

• The reception at its current state does a good job at describing what each individual reviewer thinks, but not as collective opinions. Basically, I see a lot of "A said B" happening ("RPGamer's Bryan Boulette noted that the game had its rough edges, but also stood as one of the best tactical RPGs he had played in recent years." "RPGamer's Bryan Boulette noted that the game had its rough edges, but also stood as one of the best tactical RPGs he had played in recent years." "Rolando Ochoa of Siliconera gave minimal reference to the plot, but noted its voice acting and CGI elements helped "branch out" the narrative.") It lists off how "this reviewer liked the CGI", "this reviewer liked the CGI", and "this reviewer liked the CGI and also this" when it can be combined to make a sturdy sentence of, "Reviewers thought this", and then list off what each critic thought or said differently from each other. However, it does a good job with the organization, which is key for a good Reception section, how each paragraph covers a different part of critical opinions on plot, gameplay, and graphics. To help with the former, though, I recommend Wikipedia:Copyediting reception sections. For my version of this which breaks it down into a step-by-step process, see User:Panini!/Copyediting video game Reception sections. I'm glad I wrote this down so I can simply reference it. Good thinking, Panini.

• Thanks. Panini!^🥪 14:46, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Miscellaneous -  Done

• I know this is a lot to ask for, but I highly recommend having translated tiles for the Japanese references, via the "|trans-title=" parameter.
• I'd also cite the alternate Japanese title in the lead if possible. I usually use Famitsu for that (example).

Overall, Good Job! The main "issues" come from the reception and references, but apart from those, I got quite nitpicky. Good Job! Also, apologies for the trade-off; this article is half the size in comparison to ACNH. I'll put this On Hold until changes have been fulfilled. Panini!^🥪 16:44, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

@Panini!: I've addressed most of the major stuff. The trans-title stuff is a gigantic task, so that might have to wait. As to the reception, it's a common way of formatting the reception section in the genre, I was copying from other examples/arrangements that seemed to work. On the whole, I've done my best to address the issues here. --ProtoDrake (talk) 18:08, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

ProtoDrake, taking another look at some of my remaining comments and I've come to the conclusion to drop them for your sake; the trans-title note is nitpicky and I disagree with two-weeks-ago me on that, as it's more of a "something tedious you're forced to do at FAC" kind of comment. After browsing some other RPG articles, while I personally don't like how they're formatted it seems to be the way they're formatted on a larger scale, so I won't make you re-do it to my form of standards as yours works just fine. do you have something for the second comment under Miscellaneous? It seems to be the only thing left outstanding. Panini!^🥪 13:46, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

@Panini!: I've redone the note so reflect the differentiation in Japanese, with the division between name and acronym being straight from Sakaguychi's mouth as per the ref in the note. --ProtoDrake (talk) 14:36, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Allllllrighty! Promoting now. Panini!^🥪 14:45, 8 November 2021 (UTC)