Talk:2nd Kansas Infantry Regiment/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk · contribs) 10:14, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Will take a look shortly. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 10:14, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Prelim

• No edit wars
• No duplicated links
• Image correctly licensed
• Earwig reports copyvio unlikely

Lede and infobox

• The regiment seems to be called the "2nd Kansas Volunteer Infantry Regiment" in some sources? (List of Kansas Civil War units names it as the "2nd Regiment Kansas Volunteer Infantry"?!)
  • There's long been a debate if "Volunteer" should be present or not. From what I've seen, older sources like Dyer or the 1870 work are more likely to include it (the KS Nat'l Guard Museum source is a reprint of the 1870 source with some errors/spelling variants/ambiguities fixed although it still repeats the misspelling of Forsyth). A couple years ago there was a push to standardize all the titles and it was decided to leave off "volunteer" for ACW units because the more recent scholarly sources generally leave it off, although I don't remember exactly when or where that occurred. Hog Farm _Talk 18:59, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
• " later mobilized in Kansas after enemy forces captured Lexington, Missouri" This needs some more context in both the lede and main text. Why does a place in Missouri being captured mean the regiment is "mobilized"(?) in Kansas?
  • It was thought that Kansas was being threatened
• The regiment has at least three notable senior officers, I feel one or more should be at least mentioned by name in the lede
  • I've added mention of Mitchell and Blair to the lead
• Suggest using a tree list (or manual version, whatever floats your boat!) to include Wilson's Creek within a broader heading of the American Civil War in infobox. Suggest also adding the theatre, e.g. Trans-Mississippi Theater of the American Civil War
  • Done
• Any idea as to the size of the regiment?
  • Only figure I've seen is the 600 sans the cavalry company at Wilson's Creek; I've added that to the lead
• Add commander(s) to infobox
  • Added Mitchell and Blair to the infobox as the two who actually commanded the outfit

Formation

• "was primarily recruited" assuming the men came from Kansas (duh!), wonder if you can categorically say this
  • Per Piston & Hatcher, yes
• "of only 90 days"
  • Done
• You could introduce the professions of Blair and Cloud as you do Mitchell, but very much optional
  • I don't think its necessary
• Link fatigue
  • Done
• "resulting in Sturgis having some of the Kansas whipped" > "resulted in Sturgis having some of the Kansas soldiers whipped"
  • Half-done, I've gone with what I actually intended in "Kansans"
• "which proved to be unpopular with the volunteers; on July 8 Mitchell had to break up confrontation between Sturgis and some of the Kansans before it turned violent." Suggest a change in phrasing here, e.g. "which culminated on July 8 in a confrontation between Sturgis and some of the men which Mitchell was forced to break up before it became violent."
  • Done (Piston and Hatcher note that the Kansans hated Sturgis, who was applying normative US Army discipline of the time but welcomed Lyon, who they refer to as an "actual sadist" with good cause. Enwiki's bio of Lyon is very whitewashed and I'm hoping to get it rewritten sometime this summer)
• "Joining the forces..." when?
  • I'm intentionally leaving this a bit vague - Piston and Hatcher mention Lyon arriving in Clinton on July 7 (which would imply that the commands join then, although they don't say that outright), while the KS Nat Guard/1870 history say it was in St. Clair County to the south
• Expand the caption for Mitchell's portrait to include his full name and wikilink, suggest adding something like "...,the first commander of the regiment" too
  • Done

Wilson's Creek campaign

• "The regiment was part of a strike" is this just the regiment, or is it the whole brigade etc?
  • The regiment, and Iowa unit, and some miscellaneous troops. Clarified
• "led by Major Thomas W. Sweeny" what's with all these junior officers leading forces commanded by men senior to them?
  • It might be buried somewhere in the 300+ pages of Piston & Hatcher that I haven't seen, but my guess on this so far is that Sturgis, Sweeny, and Lyon were all members of the Regular Army (United States) while the others were United States Volunteers Hog Farm _Talk 18:48, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
• "The skirmish at Forsyth" can you note whether there were any casualties?
  • 5 total between the two sides. Added
• "On August 3..." stipulate that the regiment had rejoined Lyon's main force?
  • Done
• "the day after the Battle of Dug Springs" why is this relevant?
  • Removed. I'd included it because Dug Springs was the only truly notable action between the Battle of Carthage, Missouri and Wilson's Creek.
• "Lyon's force encountered" this sounds like the ensuring combat is almost accidental. Is Lyon's force moving somewhere on purpose etc?
  • I've clarified what Lyon's force was doing in the area (marching to Cassville)
• "Confederate troops" of what variety/size?
  • A small patrol. Clarified
• "Curran Post Office" where?!
  • Working on this - Bearss and Adamson 1961 (a more general source about the campaign that I haven't directly used), as well as this give Curran in location terms to Dug Springs, which isn't helpful as we don't have an article on that (being from SW Missouri, I can tell you that Dug Springs is near modern-day Clever, Missouri, but that's not in the sources). I'm not convinced that this is RS but it quotes a few older sources giving the distance to Springfield, so I'll try to track one of those down (probably Britton). Hog Farm _Talk 05:39, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
    • I've tracked something down, although since I've seen different sources give different exact measurements I'm going to be a bit non-exact on the mileage Hog Farm _Talk 18:48, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
• "brushed them aside" language is a little casual
  • Rephrased
• "sent 2 miles (3.2 km) ahead..." can you say for what reason?
  • Clarified
• "that defeated a group of Missouri State Guard cavalry"?
  • Done
• "from the opposite direction" to what?
  • Lyon's column. Added
• "another part of the line" are we still on Bloody Hill?
  • Yes, clarified
• "Command of the 2nd Kansas Infantry" > "Command of the regiment" to avoid a lot of "2nd Kansas..."
  • Done
• "Another Confederate/Missouri State Guard attack"?
  • Done
• Can you provide any times/parts of day for the events of the battle? Would be useful to clarify how long this is taking!
  • I've added some times in for the start, the 2nd Kansas's deployment, and Sturgis's withdrawal.
• "Around the time the attackers withdrew" Assume this means the Confederates were defeated in the attack; were the 2nd Kansas involved in this third repulsion?
  • I've clarified the defeat and specified the fighting the 2nd Kansas did

End of service

• " the regiment fell back to Springfield" Just the regiment or the entire force?
  • Entire force (clarified). A number of Sigel's men reached Springfield a bit quicker by fleeing the battlefield, but that's not a level of detail worth mentioning
• "egiment halted at Hannibal, Missouri" When?
  • Tracked this down to the report of the commander of the 3rd Iowa; added
• "the column fought a small action" is this the part of 2nd Kansas/3rd Iowa column?
  • Yes, clarified
• Can you provide any more context for the September 2 and 4 actions, perhaps the outcomes?
  • I've clarified that Paris was a victory, but Shelbina ended in retreat. The 1870 source isn't the greatest for figuring out exactly what happened here, Piston & Hatcher don't cover this, and the after-actions reports for Blair and the commander of the 3rd Iowa give quite different spins on the event.
• "the regiment to return to Shelbina" assume the regiment has joined its halves together again, but unsure when
  • Sources aren't clear at all - Blair and Cloud's report is entirely spent justifying the withdrawal. Hurlburt's report notes sending the regiment west, but doesn't say anything explicit about this subject. The 1870 source isn't clear on this, either
• "the regiment continued on and fought minor actions at St. Joseph, Missouri, and Iatan, Missouri." Do you have any dates for these? Who were they fighting?
  • I have very little details about this. Dyer and the 1870 Military History say that the actions at Shelbina and Iatan occurred on the same day, which seems very improbable. The two sources also degree on the order in which St. Joseph and Iatan occurred. The 1870 source is at least clearly in error - it states that both Iatan and Shelbina took place on September 4, but also details the whole Shelbina incident, claims they moved to Bloomfield by rail and spent days there, then moved to St. Joseph at night, and then took a boat to Iatan. The date for Iatan is clearly wrong, Dyer gives only dates with no context (again saying Shelbina and Iatan were on the same day, so I suspect he's using the 1870 source as his source), and I can't find any reports filed by Blair or Cloud for this, so I'm afraid I can't confidently give much detail about this.
• "The unit arrived at Leavenworth, Kansas" when?
  • Again, it's not clear. By this point in the narrative, without a report by Blair or Cloud, I'm down to relying on the 1870 history and Dyer, neither of whom provide a date for Fort Leavenworth. I've really got nothing solid in the way of a source for the unit after Shelbina.
• Repeating my comment in the lede section about the significance of the Confederates capturing Lexington
  • Clarified

References

• Reading the online source suggests that a little more detail about the attacks received at Wilson's Creek could be included, but I realise this is an article about the regiment rather than the battle!
  • The two better-quality sources (Bearss and Piston & Hatcher) unfortunately give a whole lot of detail about the specific regiment
• Ref #6 encompasses a lot of pages, suggest splitting up more
  • I've split the ref into a 2-page cite and a 5-page cite. I could probably split it once more if really needed, but that would require some weird ref placements because only bits and pieces of the passage in Piston & Hatcher is truly relevant for this article. Hog Farm _Talk 01:53, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
• Is there a publishing location for the Bearss?
  • There is none listed on the print copy I have. I would upload a picture as proof, although I don't think that meets the fair use criteria. The printer is apparently somebody in Montana (?). The bibliographic information is sketchy enough that the only reason I'm using the source is because Bearss is considered one of the greatest American Civil War historians of the last 50 years. Hog Farm _Talk 05:08, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

@Hog Farm: That's all I have for now, will await your replies. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 19:33, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Sorry I'm taking so long to address these, I've gotten busier than I expected I would be when I nominated the article. Hog Farm _Talk 03:20, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

@Pickersgill-Cunliffe: - Sorry for long long this took. I've finally made it all the way through these. Hog Farm _Talk 21:58, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

@Hog Farm: I've made one minor correction. Spot checks agree with sources. Happy to pass this article as satisfying the GA criteria. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 17:23, 13 June 2022 (UTC)