Talk:2024 Irish local elections

Do S-PBP appear on the ballot separately or jointly?

Hi all,

Does anyone know if S-PBP (will) appear on the ballot separately or jointly? If candidates have "S-PBP" on their ballots, I imagine the infobox should just be "party = S-PBP". However, if their candidates are on the ballot separately as "People before Profit" and "Solidarity", then I think the infobox should have them as separate parties, but both should use "alliance = S-PBP".

I'm not sure what was the case in the 2019 locals, although if I recall correctly, I feel like it was separate for that election.

What are your thoughts? CeltBrowne (talk) 20:57, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

@Spleodrach: @Iveagh Gardens: @Sheila1988: @Helper201:

Per above CeltBrowne (talk) 20:41, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

This article image from 2019 locals shows a ballot with "SOLIDARITY - PEOPLE BEFORE PROFIT" next to candidates, and two logos. So they appear on ballots as a single unit. Sheila1988 (talk) 20:52, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes, they ballot jointly as People Before Profit–Solidarity, previously S-PBP. They are registered as one party (People Before Profit–Solidarity, with 2 logos) in the Register of Political Parties. They are two separate political parties, but contest elections jointly. Spleodrach (talk) 13:27, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Replying a little late to this (as I'm mostly taking a break), and I know Spleodrach has responded already. Coming in separately to provide the reference: on the current register of political parties, now maintained by the Electoral Commission, they are listed as People Before Profit–Solidarity. Previously, the register was maintained by the Clerk of the Dáil, for which see the Oireachtas website for past versions. Up to September 2020, they were Solidarity–People Before Profit, then from December 2020, they've been People Before Profit–Solidarity (the punctuation mark has varied). They've had a single registrations since September 2015, although there's a gap in the published registers, so that's not coming up there. I have found a record from Iris Oifigiúil in September 2015 with the notice of the proposal to change the name of PBP. There's more detail on the People Before Profit–Solidarity page. So there were a single body for electoral purposes at the 2016 Irish general election and the 2019 Irish local elections. A lot of the election pages for 2019 we've maintained here still list them separately, because candidates tended to list them separately, e.g. 2019 Carlow County Council election, but it might be better to list them there as Solidarity–People Before Profit, with a footnote noting that they were one or the other, as is done for the general election results, e.g., Carlow–Kilkenny (Dáil constituency)#2020 general election Iveagh Gardens (talk) 09:16, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the extensive and well sourced reply Iveagh Gardens, as well as your reply Spleodrach. I was aware that the two parties are registered as one single party as far as the Dáil goes, as being united allowed them to gain extended speaking time there (In 2016 they wanted to exceed the then threshold of 5 TDs needed to gain extended speaking time). However, while this arrangement has to apply for the Dáil and the Seanad and their elections, I wasn't sure if this had to apply for local elections. I wish we had a clear image of a 2019 local ballot stating firmly S-PBP (at that time) and showing the two logos, just to 100% confirm it. I'm a 90% feeling that you're right that they are jointly listed for local elections but having the clear visual evidence would make it indisputable.

As far as things like 2019 Carlow County Council election go, you know I don't know that we need to make things more complex than they currently are just to be technically correct. It's not necessarily wrong to display the councillor simply as "People before Profit" in the results/infobox, especially when there was no Solidarity candidate even running in the constituency. Even 2019 Dublin City Council election and 2019 Dún Laoghaire–Rathdown County Council election has the same setup. Having to use footnotes to make the distinction is a bit awkward, particularly for mobile users.

The only constituency I can find which had simultaneously successful candidates from both parties is 2019 South Dublin County Council election, so out of the 2019 results, that would be the only article where it's arguably "an issue".

I think for Dáil (and hypothetically Seanad) election articles, displaying them as "PBP-S" in the infobox is fine, but for local elections where that speaking time arrangement is not a factor, I don't think there's any harm in being more specific and listed them separately. Especially for local elections, the joint PBP-S banner is (for now) seemingly a formality rather than something like a merger.

I would let's leave things as they are and let them be listed separately in local election articles. CeltBrowne (talk) 17:48, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm reasonably happy to leave the separate council election pages as they are, as it does reflect perhaps more clearly the situation locally, with PBP in Dún Laoghaire Rathdown and Dublin City, Solidarity in Fingal and Cork City, mixed in South Dublin, and so on.

For what it's worth, they did formally contest the 2019 locals as a single registered party, then Solidarity–PBP, see the officially published results for example. You'll notice that the registration in the register of political parties gives Dáil, European and Local as the the elections they may contest. Given the national results will report them as a single party, I'd leave them as PBP-S on the 2024 Irish local elections page, even if splitting them up on the separate council election pages. It doesn't mentioned Seanad elections, as formally all Seanad elections are non-partisan.

It think the single registration related more to party funding than Dáil speaking time. Parties are eligible for state funding if they received 2% in a general election, whereas groups can come together for speaking time after an election (think the Rural Independents, etc.). Iveagh Gardens (talk) 11:31, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

County Breakdown of results

In line with previous results I've included a results breakdown by county council New guy editor (talk) 15:43, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't think this table should be included until after the election. I don't see the point in having an empty table take up half the page. Boardwalk.Koi (talk) 15:46, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

I agree. I'm not a big fan of the empty results by party table either, but at least it's relatively small. We don't know how many of the listed parties will actually get seats, so let's wait till the weekend of results before finding that some of these columns will be empty anyway and end up being deleted. Iveagh Gardens (talk) 13:06, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Independent Left

Why is Independent Left missing from the list of parties? JMHamo (talk) 11:43, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

It is not a registered party. Spleodrach (talk) 13:15, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, @Spleodrach: either is Republican Sinn Féin, but they're listed, albeit with a note. JMHamo (talk) 15:30, 13 May 2024 (UTC)