Talk:2023 attack on the Chem Pluto

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 December 2023

M/V CHEM PLUTO is operated by Amsterdam-based Ace Quantum, according to data from Equasis. The company is a joint venture of Ace Tankers and Eastern Pacific Shipping, which is owned by Israeli shipping magnate Idan Ofer. Ofer's Singapore-based Eastern Pacific Shipping is also the owner of CMA CGM SYMI, a 2022-built cargo ship which was suspected to have been attacked by a Shahed 136 in the Indian Ocean on November 24, 2023. 71.117.139.133 (talk) 17:12, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 20:24, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Y I have added details of the ship's ownership and operator. Andrew🐉(talk) 23:10, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

2023 Israel–Hamas war??

What has this got to do with the Hamas war? should reference to the war be removed? Genabab (talk) 17:13, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

See this article from Reuters. It seems at first it was thought to be Israel-affiliated, but several hours after the event, Reuters published a 2nd article (the first citation in the article) which removed that point. The tanker was associated with five nations, but not Israel. Basically, Iran targeted a boat thought to be with Israel and it turned out to not have anything to do with Israel. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 17:17, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Edit request 12/24/2023

• Add India and the ICGS Vikram to the belligerents section on the infobox. Sources can be found in main article. -FelineHerder (talk)

FelineHerder (talk) 22:17, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

References

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. M.Bitton (talk) 00:37, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Hindustan Times Reuters. I admit that it appears that Vikram wasn't the exact ship sent to respond. -FelineHerder (talk) 01:34, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Notable?

I'm not seeing any long term significance here. What distinguishes this from the long list of similar incidents? Short burst or coverage which has largely disappeared. No apparent casualties. No significant damage to the ship. I think this fails WP:NEVENT. I am open to a merge or redirect if we can find a suitable target article. Otherwise, I am inclined to send this to AfD. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:20, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

• Wait - Reassess in a week. I went on Google and searched "Chem Pluto" in the recent news articles and over 48 hours after the attack, I still see full news articles about this. If we have news articles past 1 week, WP:LASTING is sure to be satisfied, as that is the only part of WP:NEVENT in question. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 16:41, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
• Agree with Ad Orientem, no lasting significance of this single event, I would support merge to a broader list article of drone attacks on shipping. Polyamorph (talk) 12:27, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

For sure notable now: [1] India just deployed four warships due to the attack. It hasn't been a full week, but the lasting-impacts are clear, and there is still several other sources about the attack coming out today (4+ days afterwards). [ABPOne News PageCliQ India] The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 16:15, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm not convinced. SUSTAINED usually is understood to be more than a few days or even weeks. The deployment of a few ships may well be part of a more general response to the various incidents of late. Is this incident going to pass the WP:10YT? I am dubious. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:27, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

• There is continuing coverage as the forensic investigations are done and reveal more evidence. I have updated the article accordingly. Note that it's early days for this yet. I just listened to a news report discussing the technical details of the Chinese spy balloon. That incident was back in February but is still being investigated. The Indian authorities are likewise getting their teeth into this threat to their shipping and territorial waters... Andrew🐉(talk) 23:05, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Belligerents

Neither the ship nor Liberia were "belligerents" in this military action, and were incapable of making any military response. The Indian Government also made no military response in this incident, though has since taken measures to respond defensively to such attacks in future. There was only one belligerent. - Davidships (talk) 16:42, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Infobox guidance here. - Davidships (talk) 10:27, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

• I agree that the {{infobox military conflict}} template was not appropriate as this was not a military conflict and using the template tends to encourage such speculative and tendentious entries. I have replaced it with a set of shipping infoboxes which provide more sensible and appropriate headings which can usefully document the technical and other details of the primary vessel. What we really need to go with this is a picture of the vessel but I've not found a free one yet. Andrew🐉(talk) 17:11, 31 December 2023 (UTC)