Talk:2021 Colombian protests
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Feedback from New Page Review process
editI left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Thanks for creating. Celestina007 (talk) 00:10, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
Hi! Great article on this page, thank you. I recommend using the spelling "protester" instead of "protestor". See this interesting article for argument on the best spelling for your reference: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/10/once-and-all-its-spelled-protester-not-protestor/334452/ Mediterraneoxxx (talk) 07:29, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Not Protests
editWhy aren't we calling these riots? Because some people were protesting that allows us to call them all protests? If "riot" is too charged for the editors here, can we change it to "2021 Colombian Unrest", seeing as "protest" is not accurate to how the people involved were actually acting across the board? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.59.11.121 (talk) 02:22, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- This is an issue which has come up in the United States during 2020 and there was a lot of debate on how events should be defined. I found a good definition that explores the difference between the two terms. A protest is “a usually organized public demonstration of disapproval” (of some law, policy, idea, or state of affairs), while a riot is “a disturbance of the peace created by an assemblage of usually three or more people acting with a common purpose and in a violent and tumultuous manner to the terror of the public”. (See https://www.britannica.com/story/how-does-the-us-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-and-a-riot#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20a%20protest%20in,and%20in%20a%20violent%20and) Given the definition, I believe protests still apply to this event. Jurisdicta (talk) 03:23, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
Could expert/uninvolved editors please take a look at National Police of Colombia and see if reliably sourced and neutrally-factual content can be added to National Police of Colombia, particularly the history since 2007, and the lead. Thanks ~Hydronium~Hydroxide~(Talk)~ 08:56, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
Unsourced Quote by The Secretary General of the United Nations, António Guterres
editI could find no sources that support the quote included in the International Section under Supranational organizations by The Secretary General of the United Nations, António Guterres. Should this quote be removed given it is not sourced and a search among reputable news organizations do not indicate that the purported statement was made? Jurisdicta (talk) 07:30, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
- @Jurisdicta: See [1] - For RS reporting, [2] is probably the closest? ~Hydronium~Hydroxide~(Talk)~ 08:44, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
- Hydronium Hydroxide, Thank you for sourcing the citation. If it has not already been added, I will add the citation to the article. Jurisdicta (talk) 04:02, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Many pages referring to Colombia have inaccurate statements or with little veracity or with biased sources
editThe articles on Wikipedia, both in Spanish and in English, about Gustavo Petro, Álvaro Uribe Vélez, Iván Duque, the Farc, the m19, the parapolitics and the Wikiproyecto Colombia, have abundant false, doubtful, disputed statements or with biased sources or doubtful. For example these:
(Please SEMI-PROTECT them and correct them)
In summary, and in order not to repeat what some others have already said in the respective discussion pages, in the Wikipedia pages referring to Gustavo Petro and other pages and projects cited above, the pages are significantly biased towards Alvaro Uribe's opponents, even in pages that do not deal with or have nothing to do with Alvaro Uribe (such as Gustavo Petro's), with sources carefully selected to only support such opponents, often very doubtful, unobjective or biased, with phrases such as: "These revelations opened the doors of a strong social sanction to Uribe in Colombia by a sector of public opinion, and placed him in the sights of the ICC with the more than 250 processes in the Office of the Attorney General of the Nation that exist against him, and that, for different reasons, including corruption of the national powers", " Petro revealed that Uribe's presidential campaign in 2002 had received financial support from Enilse López, known such as La Gata, later convicted of ties to the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia, "etc., etc., etc. (I will not repeat).
Getting to the point of almost calling Uribe a "murderer", "genocidal", "terrorist", "corrupt", "paramilitary", "drug trafficker", "narco-paramilitary", BOTH ON THE PAGES IN ENGLISH AND IN SPANISH, even though sometimes not using those words, as he is presented as directly related to “human rights abuses” and he is also presented as solely responsible for the violence, corruption and deaths that occurred throughout the Colombian Armed Conflict.
Forgetting or omitting that: 1) Up to now none of the investigations that the Prosecutor's Office has made or is doing, has found any evidence that he has been personally involved and has not gone to criminal trial, except for that of these days of "manipulation of witnesses ”, which is ongoing without sentencing yet, 2) He did not have any public office or had anything to do with the Armed Conflict in the first two decades until 1981, and 3) They omit the massive human rights violations, deaths, drug trafficking, kidnappings and torture committed by guerrilla groups outside the law that, although pardoned, were admitted by such groups in the 1989 and 2016 Peace Accords.
President Ivan Duque is presented as if he were Alvaro Uribe's “puppet” and he is also held directly and personally responsible for all the human rights violations and violence that are taking place in Colombia.
Even in the pages on Alvaro Uribe it is mentioned that he has about 28 proceedings against in the Supreme Court of Justice of Colombia, taking as a source a journalistic note, but when the public database of the judicial branch of Colombia is accessed, on Consultation of processes, no such processes are observed. (In the Colombian journalistic media, false news is very frequent, towards or against all the parties involved)
More or less the same happens in the Wikipedia pages that make some reference to the 2021 PROTESTS in Colombia, very biased towards the opposition, BOTH ON THE PAGES IN ENGLISH AND IN SPANISH, where the state, the police and the army are presented as the ONLY human rights violators (when the objective reality is that more than ten policemen and military have already died in the protests, and tens of thousands of small merchants or shopkeepers have lost everything due to vandalism), echoing, or taking sources that echo, what seems to be a massive campaign of fake news and misinformation referring not only to the STRIKE but to previous times of the Armed Conflict and the presidency of Alvaro Uribe and Ivan Duque, and where many of these fake news and false videos (even from Amnesty International !!!, or Cnn or Dw, who would believe it) were actually taken in Venezuela but they are presented as if they had taken place in Colombia during the 2021 PROTESTS. This massive campaign of false news and videos and disinformation, is evidenced in serious sources such as:
The Fake News generated during the National Protests
The fake pictures, videos and news about the 2021 strikes
At least 23 fake news have been detected during the protests
Victor Muñoz DAPRE’s Director, denies decree ordering state of emergency
These iconic buildings in the world were not lit in support of Colombia during the protests
The explosion of unverified information circulating on the media during the protests
National Protests live: the ongoing protests on May 5th
Colombia Check independent verification site
False, Young man was not burned by Esmad in Floridablanca, Santander
Duque didn’t twit that if misinformation persists he’ll cancel Facebook
Video of Young man assaulted by the police in Floridablanca is real but he was not murdered
New video of policemen inhaling a presumed drug is not in Colombia but in Chile
The one in the picture is not the Esmad’s policeman reported for taking part in an assault
Police’s Ad offering reward for presumed vandals of the sacks of April 28th is false
Video of clashes between police and army is not of April 28th protests nor in Colombia
Colombia is not the only country to propose Tax Reform amidst the outbreak
Maria Fernanda Cabal did not say coffee is not to have breakfast or dinner but for visitors
Note that in Colombia it is very risky to take journalistic notes as a source, sometimes even from supposedly "serious" or "respectable" entities such as El Tiempo or Semana, and much less opinion notes, since, as can be seen in Colombia for more than ten years, impressive amounts of fake news have been circulating. However, those are most of the sources given for the Wikipedia pages mentioned at the beginning, even on the English Wikipedia pages.
If little of what is written in Colombia, with direct knowledge of the situation, is serious or objective, much less what is written on foreign media, including Amnesty International, CNN or DW. Not one news magazine has been left uncriticized for this in decades. Note also that credible or objective sources are so rare and occasional in Colombia, even in the supposedly “academic” sphere, that if strict criteria are used, almost nothing could be written about Colombia!
No, I am neither an uribista nor a leftist, I am a responsible and conscientious citizen who is trapped, as you surely know, in a country where everyone’s spirits are so heated and violence has been happening for so long, that it is no exaggeration to say that "half of Colombia wants to kill and hang the other half of Colombia." And that is clearly observed in the 2021 PROTESTS, where it can be said that “everyone hates everyone”.
It is assumed that Wikipedia, AND MORE IN ENGLISH, is a serious and ENCYCLOPEDIC website, for which it has no presentation that in such articles on Petro, Uribe, Duque, guerrillas, parapolitics or the Colombia Wikiproject, in Spanish and in ENGLISH, many statements are made, risky and controversial at best, implying that Uribe and Duque or the police and the army would be "murderers", "genocidal", "terrorists", "paramilitaries", "abusers of human rights ”,“ corrupt ”,“ corruption in the branches of power ”, etc., etc., etc.
Most people do not verify the facts or if what is said is true or not, and simply believe what Wikipedia says, and more being an encyclopedia.
Please, Librarians and Wikipedia editors:
Every time on one of your pages, whether in Spanish or in English, these types of statements are sneaked in, not very truthful and that could be seen as an incitement to hatred and violence, indeed half of Colombia wants to kill the other half, there are people dying!!
It is not an exaggeration to say that when a single one of these statements creeps in, or echoes a possibly false journalistic note, at least one person dies in Colombia!
Please, I beg you:
Semi-protect all those pages referring to Colombia, have the maximum possible responsibility with the wording and all statements and sources, and please proceed to correct all those pages urgently.
Thank you. Carlosverano92 (talk) 00:33, 27 May 2021 (UTC)