Talk:2020 Supercars Championship

Team Kiwi Racing

Tram Kiwi Racing may have stated an intention to enter the 2020 series, but not worthy of inclusion until concrete signs emerge that it will happen. At the moment TKR are one of many teams that have aspirations to enter the series, but few will ever get there. That the team announced an intention to field a wildcard at the this year's Bathurst 1000 then pulled the pin citing a funding shortfall would suggest it is at best doubtful that it has the resources to run a full season. Suggest we wait for something that indicates serious intent, lodging an entry, purchasing/leasing a REC, signing a sponsor etc, before we include. Fecotank (talk) 01:54, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

"At the moment TKR are one of many teams that have aspirations to enter the series, but few will ever get there."

The difference is that TKR have a tangible proposal to join the grid (at a time when the grid is shrinking). That alone separates them from all of the other proposals (like speculation about a Sydney-based team, a Newcastle-based team and/or a Peter Adderton-backed team). Mclarenfan17 (talk) 21:32, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

Given that the date for RECs has passed, and no news surrounding TKR has happened since the failed Bathurst bid, is it still worth keeping it on the page? Tbyrn21 (talk) 04:47, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

There are other avenues for entry. The REC deadline is mostly for existing teams, so that Supercars management know how many reserve RECs they can release. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 19:09, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

It's been over a month since the last reply and there is nothing about TKR since. Is the paragraph still needed? Or are we waiting until the official test day at Tailem Bend to see the result? Hiflex480 (talk) 11:34, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

No, nothing concrete to indicate that this is likely to happen. Fecotank (talk) 02:09, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

It's not a question of the likelihood of it happening. TKR have said that they're putting together an entry, and until such time as we get a source saying it won't happen, then we have to stick with it. For the record, I agree that they won't be there, but a lack of news and an opinion is not enough to override an existing reliable source. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 04:18, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

The article should reflect what will or will likely happen, not what possibly will happen. Until such time as something emerges that TKR seriously intend to enter, there is no need for it to be mentioned. Fecotank (talk) 05:12, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

The issue is that it was announced after their unsuccessful attempt at racing at Bathurst last year. It may be more of a fizzle than a proper attempt to get into the series, but should we wait to hear about the team more? Or when the official list comes out?Hiflex480 (talk) 06:13, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

@Fecotank:

The article should reflect what will or will likely happen, not what possibly will happen.

No, the article should reflect what the sources say.

Until such time as something emerges that TKR seriously intend to enter

We already have that in the article.

We have a reliable and verifiable source that says TKR are putting an entry together. The fact that you think the entry is unlikely to happen means nothing. Wikipedia is based on what the sources say, not you opinion of those sources. @Hiflex480:

Or when the official list comes out?

That would be the wisest move. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 12:15, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Repeated spam of Driver Lineups

There has been numerous cases from the one user, who is an IP address, of repeated spamming of driver lineups, which are all bogus and have nothing backed from it. Is there a way to make it semi protected? I haven't done it before Hiflex480 (talk) 01:59, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

@Hiflex480: you can request various levels of protection at WP:RFP ("Requests for Protection"). It's pretty straightforward; the page gives you instructions on how to submit the request. If all else fails, copy and paste the last entry underneath itself and adjust for this page as need be. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 05:44, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

I have now requested temporary semi-protection. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 21:56, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

Cheers for that. It was really doing my head in and I don't use my phone for Wikipedia edits. Hiflex480 (talk) 09:44, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

I have had the page semi-protected for a week. Hopefully the person continuing to make the unsourced edits gets bored. FullHouse97 (talk) 07:05, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Cheers for that. Looked back at the View History section, and he says that it's from Speedcafe. Had a look, nothing there. He ain't fooling us. Hiflex480 (talk) 21:33, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 October 2019

{{edit open|2020 Supercars Championship|answered=no}}

180.246.151.95 (talk) 02:02, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

Reorganising the entry table

Looking at the entry table, I can see a bit of a problem with it: the manufacturers are organised alphabetically, but the teams are organised by the lowest number they use. However, the numbers are not sequential, and so the table is organised like this: 5-6-55-7-15-12-17-2-25-3-4-8-14 and so on. It's not particularly sensible. Instead, we should do what Formula 1 and WRC articles do—ignore the numbers and instead arrange the teams alphabetically within the manufacturers. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 04:30, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Using Ford as an example, it would be 23Red Racing either first or last, depending on if numbers are first, DJR Team Penske, Kelly Racing and Tickford Racing. Many people are so used to having the team in numerical order might cause some people to try and revert back to the current system. But it should be a general consensus going forward and any plans on updating the list from previous Supercars championships to have the same list order we've had over the last couple of years. Hiflex480 (talk) 09:59, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

@Hiflex480: editors hsd similar concerns when Formula 1 and WRC articles were reorganised, but it never came to anything. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 00:15, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Then let's give it a go and see how it all ends up. Hiflex480 (talk) 05:45, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

@Hiflex480: it might be worth cutting the manufacturer column. There is a manufacturers' title, but it's calculated based on race wins rather than a points tally. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 23:10, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Tekno or Team Sydney

I think the entry list should still display Tekno Autosports rather than Team Sydney. Team Sydney seems to be more of a branding exercise rather than representing any ownership change - particularly as Salmon pulled out I see this being a continuation of Tekno rather than a new team.SchueyFan (talk) 11:05, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

Certainly think the article should remain as Tekno Autosports, as agree Team Sydney is a brand and will only last as long as whatever financial incentives are in place continue. In terms of this article, I can see the pros and cons of both, but in the interests of consistency, am leaning towards using Tekno. Fecotank (talk) 11:03, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Just checked their website, it says Team Sydney X Tekno, so it's still under the Tekno branding of some sorts. But on the Supercars website, it's Team Sydney. Hiflex480 (talk) 12:00, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Rounds column

I'd like to change the approach to the rounds column. Rather than having, say "1–3, 5–6" where the numbers refer to the specific rounds, we should instead use "5" (with a footnote), where the number refers to the number of rounds contested.

The reason I want to do this is because of the SuperLites system. It's going to create and incredibly (and needlessly) wide column and table. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 04:26, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 20 May 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. (non-admin closure) Natg 19 (talk) 00:49, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

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2020 Supercars Championship → 2020–21 Supercars Championship – Convention within the WP:MOTOR community is that championship articles are named for the year or years that they are contested over. The sport recently released a new calendar after several events were cancelled because of the COVID-19 pandemic and this includes events in 2021. Therefore, "2020–21 Supercars Championship" most accurately reflects the subject. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 00:22, 20 May 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:22, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

• Support as per convention of WP:TITLE within WP:MOTOR community and rescheduling due to COVID-19 pandemic ~Amkgp ✉ 03:39, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

@Amkgp: I'm not sure why you've linked WP:TITLE. Can you point me to the part of that page which supports this name change? Thanks. A7V2 (talk) 03:50, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

• Comment - regardless of the decision of this discussion, the official name of the championship is still currently the 2020 Virgin Australia Supercars Championship (see [1]) and should (per WP:OFFICIAL) remain near the top of the article in bold. A7V2 (talk) 03:48, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Further comment Are you sure that this is a convention? To me in the vast majority of cases (ie where the series is planned to run over two calendar years) its moreso just a common sense implementation of WP:COMMON NAME which doesn't apply here unless calling it 2020-21 is the common name (which I'm not saying it is or isn't). But if the only argument in favour of a name change is some unwritten convention I will oppose. A7V2 (talk) 04:05, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Comment: why wouldn't it be the common name? The championship is being run over two calendar years. Granted, the circumstances are unusual and in the only other instance I can think of where a series adopted a calendar across two years—the World Endurance Championship—the change was announced well in advance, but these articles have always been titled for the year(s) they were run in. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 04:46, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

There are plenty of cases of championships running over two calendar years, but as far as I know these were all planned that way(Formula E for example). In this case, since the official name is yet to change (as I said above) I don't think the common name automatically changes. I suppose right now it's hard to say, but most sources I can find talk about things like "2020/21 calendar of racing", but still refer to the actual championship as being the 2020 championship. I'm not going to pretend I know the future, but to me it seems more likely that in a few years time no-one will refer to Scott McLaughlin (or perhaps someone else) as 2020/21 champion, but simply 2020 champion in the same way that the 1937 Australian Grand Prix was held in 1936. As a further point, note for example that the 2020 Summer Olympics will be held in 2021 but the name hasn't changed. A7V2 (talk) 05:26, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Oppose. Official announcement of the revised calendar [2] describes it as the 2020 Virgin Australia Supercars Championship, not the 2020–21 Virgin Australia Supercars Championship. Venskert (talk) 11:02, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose. I agree the article title should reflect the official series title which at this point remains as the 2020 championship.SchueyFan (talk) 05:09, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

• Comment: see WP:OFFICIALNAME. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 08:35, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

• Neutral for now. McLarenfan17 is right here. The official name isn't overly relevant when deciding on a name. My objection above is only to assuming what the common name will be without looking at what reliable sources are using. At the moment I think it's too early to say what the common name is since the season still hasn't got going yet. Definitely there are examples of continuing to only call it 2020 (eg [3], and a confusing example [4] which refers to both 2020 and 2020-21) but there are sources, such as SpeedCafe, who do seem to be using 2020-21. I'm not opposed, at the moment, (although not in favour either) to a move now so long as in a few months time if it becomes clear that the common name is something like "2020 Supercars Championship", or if in a few years if Scott McLaughlin (or whoever) is commonly referred to as the 2020 (not 2020-21) Champion, then the article should be moved back. And of course although I've struck my oppose above, my comments regarding the official name still stand. A7V2 (talk) 04:37, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, with the majority of events still scheduled to be held in 2020. Fecotank (talk) 03:02, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose for now per WP:COMMONNAME. A google search shows that the majority of sources still call it the 2020 Supercars Championship. Of course this may need to be revisted going forward but for now...
  SSSB (talk) 09:55, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Commercial names

Some editors have been pretty opposed to having the team's commercial names displayed on their respective pages. This becomes really confusing for readers as it almost never correlates with the team's current names and how they're presented officially as well as in the media. For example, NO ONE refers to Shell V-Power Racing as triple eight engineering anymore This results in a pretty outdated and confusing format. I'm not sure why Supercars insists on having outdated names and logos. Formula 1, GT racing, NASCAR, IndyCar and other high-level race series' all change their team names on a regular basis, based on the team's sponsorship status. If they followed Supercar's standards, they would still have team names like Lotus and BMW displayed, which would look pretty ridiculous. It makes zero sense to not follow the format that every other race series is following. At the least, we can still compromise and have both the original and commericial names displayed on the team's respective pages. - Cement4802 (talk) 11:37, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

NO ONE refers to Shell V-Power Racing as triple eight engineering anymore. Probably because no-one ever did, Shell never have sponsored Triple Eight, but the Shell sponsored team is often referred to as DJR Team Penske, recent articles from Autosport, Auto Action and Speedcafe being examples. The names used to name Supercar team articles aren't outdated, but generic. The reason they are used is that compared to commercial titles, they remain relatively stable. Take DJR Team Penske as an example, it has had one rename in 40 years, yet in the same timeframe it has had many commercial names with Palmer Tube Mills, Shell, Westpoint, First Rock, Jim Beam, Wilson Security, Xbox and the various Penske subsidiaries having all been title sponsors. And the same applies to most teams, for teams like Brad Jones Racing with revolving sponsorships, it can change every round. Looking at some other examples, Williams Grand Prix Engineering in F1, Andretti Autosport in IndyCar, Team Dynamics in the BTCC and Joe Gibbs Racing in Nascar as random examples, none make reference to their commercial titles in either their article name or in the article text. Dvzk (talk) 12:29, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Yes, a typo with Shell and Triple Eight. But you get the point. Racing Point F1 has had multiple renames over the past few years and yet their page has been able to keep up. Why do we hold Supercars to a different standard. - Cement4802 (talk) 13:48, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Why do we hold Supercars to a different standard. I don't think we do, it follows the same format as the F1, IndyCar, BTCC and Nascar articles mentioned above. When a team changes its formal name the article has been moved, e.g. when Prodrive Racing Australia became Tickford Racing, Dick Johnson Racing became DJR Team Penske, Walkinshaw Racing became Walkinshaw Andretti United, but not every time their commercial names have changed. Racing Point F1 has only existed as an article for 18 months and has never been moved. Dvzk (talk) 20:56, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Absolutely not. Racing Point's commercial name has been changed to BWT-Racing Point, and that is very clearly mentioned in the lead and the infobox. Having a commercial name in the lead or infobox isn't even allowed for supercars, which is really bizarre, nor having the current commercial logo (such as penrite racing for erebus or shell v-power for djr). Racing point has had various commercial name changes over the years and that is reflected in the article lead and infobox. Supercars? Not so much. And don't even get me mentioned on the faux names being used for teams without any justification whatsoever as to why their proper names aren't being used. What the hell is charlie schwerkolt racing? What the hell is Tim Blanchard racing? They've never existed and there is zero trace that these teams were ever referred to as this anywhere else on the web. - Cement4802 (talk) 04:32, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

They've never existed and there is zero trace that these teams were ever referred to as this anywhere else on the web. Need to look a bit harder, evidence of Tim Blanchard Racing can be found on the web. Tim Blanchard Racing Pty Ltd is the company that owns the Racing Entitlements Contract under which car #3 is entered. Thus it will be the name that appears on entry lists etc, and I am presuming that is why the article was named as such when established in 2017, given that the purchase of the REC was initially reported as by Tim Blanchard Racing. A move discussion for Charlie Schwerkolt Racing is underway on that article's talk page, suggest you express your views there. Dvzk (talk) 06:57, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

It's still making zero sense. The naming standards for several teams is completely off to how they're named officially by Supercars. Even if the team was indeed referred to as Tim Blanchard racing (the evidence for this still looks extremely scarce and dodgy), the main point remains that this name is no longer being used in the present. You'd be hard pressed to find any evidence of the Tim Blanchard name being used on the official Supercars site, which really should become a more standard source to refer to for this article. I'm not even sure Supercars even lists "Tim Blanchard racing" (more properly referred to as Team CoolDrive) as a separate team from Brad Jones Racing. And who the hell even came up with Charlie Schwerkolt racing? There's no logic to the naming standards here. - Cement4802 (talk) 07:47, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

You'd be hard pressed to find any evidence of the Tim Blanchard name being used on the official Supercars site Really, from the official Supercars site: Super Black sells REC to Tim Blanchard Racing.

You have arrived like a bull in a china shop and are introducing as many problems as you are solving. Why not try engaging in calm, rational conversation to try and come up with workable solutions, rather than just making stupid comments like "who the hell even came up with Charlie Schwerkolt racing" or "the time it takes to get things done on supercars related articles is just embarassing"? I gave you some reasons why the Tim Blanchard Racing article was probably named as such (including from the official Supercars site), yet you choose to ignore and continue ranting. Bottom line is that to get the changes you want through is that you are going to need to obtain a consensus, so please grow up, stop ranting and generally pissing people off. Dvzk (talk) 10:13, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Well we're certainly not going to reach a consensus if its a constant one sided state of control over the article as it is right now. And no, still can't find a trace of "Tim Blanchard racing" on the supercars site. It's simply listed as Team CoolDrive and it's not even considered separate from Brad Jones Racing. If you're pissed off at this, that's completely on you, I'm simply pointing out the blatant flaws on this and other related articles. It seems only a handful of editors run this family of articles, religiously sticking to a completely flawed, incorrect and out of date format, much of the stuff looking more like fan wiki than a legitimate informative and up to date wikipedia article. This site needs badly needs the input of some more international motorsport editors, who'll get it up to scratch and to the standard of other motorsport pages. - Cement4802 (talk) 08:18, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

As one of the so-called "handful of editors run this family of articles" (a flawed analogy given that dozens of people have made substantial contributions over the years), the suggestion that this and similarly articles are "completely flawed, incorrect and out of date format" is a sign of a lack of understanding as to how these articles are structured. Improvements can always be made, but the wholesale renaming of team articles from their long-standing names to ones including sponsors that change regularly isn't one of them. New editors with new ideas are always welcome, but before engaging in a mass up-ending of long standing structures, that have been built up by many editors over many years, it is always a good idea to at least discuss (as oppose to whinge) if reverted.

Tim Blanchard Racing is named as such as the Team CoolDrive name will only remain while that organisation is the title sponsor. By sticking to the team rather than commercial name, it means year-on-year the name remains stable. There have been examples such as Supercheap Auto Racing and Wilson Security Racing who have been naming rights sponsors to at least six different teams. The Racing Entitlment Contract is owned by TBR, it operates as a satellite of Brad Jones Racing, the same way that Britek did in 2016. Fecotank (talk) 04:37, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Look, not changing the name of the article i get. But the fact that commercial names at all aren't allowed in the lead or in the infobox is completely ridiculous. I'm going to use formula 1 as an example again, all teams mention their commerical names in the lead, and their infobox is constantly changed based on the sponsors. Racing Point BWT-Mercedes is a commercial name. BWT has naming rights to the team, in the same way that Shell has naming rights to DJR Penske. But alas, there seems to be a fear of sponsors over here at supercars. It's how motorsport works. Having official sponsor logos or names switched around in the lead image and infobox title is pretty standard. The Supercars format is anything but consistent with other motorsport series. - Cement4802 (talk) 01:40, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Mk.6

There is no Mk.6 version of the Ford Mustang. There never has been. Wikipedia's article refers to sixth generation while Ford's internal production code is S550. I personally never want to see fan-made nomenclature like Mk.6 ever again. --Falcadore (talk) 22:34, 15 October 2020 (UTC)