Talk:2012–2013 Egyptian protests/Archive 1

Archive 1

ambiguous first sentence

The 2012 Egyptian protests started on 22 November 2012.[3] Protesters are demonstrating against Egyptian president Mohammed Morsi after he granted himself powers to legislate without judicial oversight or review of his acts.

the phrase in bold is an adverbial phrase used to modify a verb. It is ambiguous which verb that the adverb modify. It could be applied to the verb granted or to legislate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.33.162.44 (talk) 14:02, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

'Protesters are demonstrating against Egyptian president Mohammed Morsi, who proclaimed for himself not only legislative power but also immunity from judicial review.' How'z that? ClaudeReigns (talk) 02:06, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Casualties

Need better sourcing and categorizing in the casualties section of the infobox. It says one of the eight that died were demonstrators. But aren't both sides now demonstrating? Confusing and unclear. I'm sure the opposition and the Brotherhood also have conflicting claims on the number of dead and who they were. Plot Spoiler (talk) 03:18, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

I sourced the casualties. It's clear that Morsi's supporters are also demonstrating, as I added his political party in the infobox, same as I did with the oppoistion. --Wüstenfuchs 16:47, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

A more current sourcing of casualties that was higher was then added. Let's keep the most current that is RS-sourced. Best.--Epeefleche (talk) 22:44, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Should we differentiate between opposition casualties, Muslim Brotherhood casualties, and army/police casualties? Is that feasible? Plot Spoiler (talk) 00:16, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Would be nice. But from what I have seen, it is not feasible at this point. Nothing reliable yet.--Epeefleche (talk) 00:55, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

according to Muslim Brotherhood sources 7 killed from its Members. and this Chinese source state for 5 MB members killed [1], another [2], 1 MB in damanhour (egyptian city)[3] i will search for more reliable sources. LogiTopQuark (talk) 14:51, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Article traffic statistics

• December
• January

-- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 15:16, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

What is wrong with the title?! Possible move

What is wrong with the title of the article?! It's too late, maybe I should sleep! 2012-13 Egyptian protests and 2012–13 Egyptian protests? Maybe the creator's keyboard has a problem? The article should be moved to 2012-13 Egyptian protests I think.Farhikht (talk) 23:19, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

• The current title has an en-dash, which is the correct character. The proposed title has a hyphen-minus, which should not be used. --Article editor (talk) 07:49, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Yep, I got it. Sorry.Farhikht (talk) 08:23, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

No, you're right. Neither common English usage nor "what would be the least surprising to a user finding the article" support the use of this character; your challenge to the status quo is a very good thing. Nyttend (talk) 17:17, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

"14 Million Protesters"

I have cut this reference to the "14 million protesters" alleged to have shown up on 30 June. The sentence (under the 30 June subsection) was already tagged as having weasel words, and had a reference in it to the number being "highly suspect" (which it is). There is no reliable original source for this number anywhere on the internet. The RussiaToday citation given for it made no mention of "14 million" protesters, and the Breitbart "source", which is already unreliable as is, claimed the number came from the BBC, but instead linked to Naguib Sawaris' Twitter account ( https://twitter.com/NaguibSawiris/status/351449907774754817 ), in which he claims that the BBC said 30 June had the largest number of protesters in the "history of mankind". The BBC, of course, made no such claim, and Sawaris is in fact where this ridiculous claim and attendant number originated (see http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/07/2013717115756410917.html ). After it was tweeted by Sawaris (who backed the coup), it spread through anti-Morsi and conservative Western blogs and became the truth. Direct action (talk) 14:12, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

I agree. No reliable sources have yet to give precise estimations, yet alone 14. I've heard 14 million and even 33 million. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drmo92 (talk • contribs) 16:09, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Name Change

I saw an article online that referred to the protests and the ousting of Morsi as the "second revolution". Should we change the name of this article to 2013 Egyptian revolution?? Gimelthedog (talk) 01:23, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

The section 2012–13 Egyptian protests#July does have an infobox that says 2013 Egyptian revolution. Maybe it should get its own article, or this whole article be renamed. We should at least changed the redirect of 2013 Egyptian revolution, which was at Aftermath of 2011 Egyptian Revolution and now is at 2013 Egyptian coup d'état, to the page or section about the 2013 revolution. Also, the start of the new revolution should be figured out, the section infobox says 30 June 2013, the protest article infobox says 22 November 2012. Gimelthedog (talk) 01:43, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

yes it looks like a 2nd revolution since ikhwan has been toppled..name change is needed. Baboon43 (talk) 03:28, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Agree, these are far more than just protests by now. But, if you look at the talk page for 2013 Egyptian coup d'état there is an arguement that the terms "revolution" and "coup d'état" are not neutral, I advocated "overthrow" as a more neutral term, and I think the terms "crisis", "political crisis", or "constitutional crisis" would be more up to date terms for this page. Charles Essie (talk) 23:02, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

I strongly disagree. Calling this a revolution is wrong as it has no national support beyond the opposition. Calling it a revolution would be very biased. Only the media related to the opposition and Sisi continue to call it a "second revolution", referring to the revolution that ousted Mubarak. But this comparison is irrational as the initial revolution had general public backup while this one has only partial. Protests are happening on both sides and the neutral term of "egyptian protests" is the most appropiate if we want to remain objective. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.52.29.191 (talk) 09:32, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

I didn't say "revolution", I said that "crisis", "political crisis", or "constitutional crisis" would be a better title for this page. I acknowledged that the term "revolution" is wrong for this page because it's not neutral, but I insist that these are more than just "protests", it's something far more serious than that. Charles Essie (talk) 20:18, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Egyptian Revolution of 2013

The article Egyptian Revolution of 2013 is nominated for deletion, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Egyptian Revolution of 2013 for discussion.GreyShark (dibra) 19:44, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 07 March 2014

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Xoloz (talk) 18:16, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

---

2012–13 Egyptian protests → Timeline of the presidency of Mohamed Morsi – More descriptive and this is exactly what the article looks like now after the latest merge: a timeline. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 12:17, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Oppose, the protests may coincide and even respond to Morsi's actions, but they are about Egypt, not about him. bd2412 T 16:46, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. Conceptually separate, and more discrete topic. DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 21:20, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

• Strongly Oppose: Completely nonsense. What do you think about other Arab spring protests 2011–12 Moroccan protests, 2011–13 Saudi Arabian protests, 2013–14 Tunisian protests... and etc. Maurice07 (talk) 17:07, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Preview section and copy editing

I edited parts of the Preview section because it was written partly in a tense that sounded like the protests are still occuring. (I can't remember what that's called; it's been a while since I had college English!) The rest of the article might need some touch-ups from a copy editor. Also, the article as a whole is quite long. Should any sections be shortened? Foreignshore (talk) 00:03, 25 April 2015 (UTC)