Talk:2010 Tonight Show conflict
2010 Tonight Show conflict has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. Review: August 21, 2022. (Reviewed version). |
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GA Review edit
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Reviewing |
- This review is transcluded from Talk:2010 Tonight Show conflict/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: RunningTiger123 (talk · contribs) 01:01, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
Hi LuK3, this article caught my interest and I've decided to give it a go. It'll take some time to get through everything, but I should be able to finish it over the weekend. RunningTiger123 (talk) 01:01, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
- It is reasonably well written.
- It is factually accurate and verifiable.
- a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
- a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
- It is broad in its coverage.
- a (major aspects): b (focused):
- a (major aspects): b (focused):
- It follows the neutral point of view policy.
- Fair representation without bias:
- Fair representation without bias:
- It is stable.
- No edit wars, etc.:
- No edit wars, etc.:
- It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
- a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
- a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
- Overall:
- Pass/Fail:
- Pass/Fail:
Quick checks:
- Copyvio check shows no major issues; closest matches are attributed quotes.
- Images seem reasonable; the two non-free images (lead image and Kimmel) have solid rationales, and all images include proper alt text and captions.
- The article is stable.
— RunningTiger123 (talk) 01:16, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
Lead edit
"not participate in the destruction of The Tonight Show"
– this quote is never used in the body, and is therefore unattributed.- That actually was not the exact quote, see "People of Earth" section. I only quoted the term "destruction". -- LuK3 (Talk) 01:55, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
on appearing on television
– awkward repetition, maybe tryagainst appearing on television
?
— RunningTiger123 (talk) 01:27, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
Background edit
- Note: From here on out, I'll assume Carter's citations are accurate.
- Ref. 3 is okay, but not great. It would be better for a source to directly state NBC was a leader, rather than infer it from charts.
which began in 1993.
– should be a comma at the endcan compete
→could compete
(for Leno's entire run)
– this might be confusing, since it's not immediately clear if this means 2009 or 2014. I'd suggest rewording or just removing it.- I specified it was Leno's first stint as host.
- Ref. 13 does not make it clear if Michaels suggested O'Brien for the role.
- Ref. 14 never mentions a week-to-week contract.
1:30 am.,
→1:30 am,
— RunningTiger123 (talk) 01:44, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
Early history edit
- No need to link Saturday Night Live again
- For consistency,
late night
should belate-night
when used as an adjective (not a huge issue, just something to consider) - Swap sentences for better flow:
Chernin warned...
andNumerous executives...
will stay at NBC
→would stay at NBC
- I still see the original wording... maybe it appeared twice? RunningTiger123 (talk) 02:21, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
as host well after the extension
– feels like it's missing a few words, maybeas until well after the extension was signed
?- Should it say
signed
instead ofsign
? Other wordings are fine, but the current one is wrong. RunningTiger123 (talk) 02:22, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Should it say
- Ref. 28 and ref. 38 are the same
he likened his removal
→Leno likened his removal
- Ref. 43 doesn't align well with article
- Same with ref. 54
- Sorry, I'm a little confused regarding this point. Are you saying the physical alignment of the references are causing a problem or is it something in the formatting? -- LuK3 (Talk) 01:22, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- My mistake, I meant that what the article says doesn't really match what the sources say (the article generally takes the statements too far). RunningTiger123 (talk) 02:20, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Sorry, I'm a little confused regarding this point. Are you saying the physical alignment of the references are causing a problem or is it something in the formatting? -- LuK3 (Talk) 01:22, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Same with ref. 54
"paradigm shift"
– cited source never uses this quote, so shouldn't be a direct quote- Wrong year on ref. 57
— RunningTiger123 (talk) 01:06, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
Ratings edit
While Zucker called O'Brien to reiterate that the generational change was expected
– following source doesn't mention thisby over 2.6 million viewers
– it was actually much higher according to the source18.4 million viewers
– does not match source- Ref. 84 does not include that direct quote
coveted 18–24 demographic
should be18–34
local news viewership
– clarify that it's on NBC affiliates, not all networks- Use Law & Order instead of Law & Order: Special Victims Unit
he will return
→he would return
Conan sidekick
→O'Brien sidekick
Affiliate calls came at an alarming rate, and research analysis revealed...
– sentence abruptly transitions from Leno to O'Brien; make the shift clearer- I changed it to
Affiliate began calling the network to inquire about the show's fate...
, perhaps that is a less jarring. -- LuK3 (Talk) 14:22, 14 August 2022 (UTC)Affiliates
should be plural. RunningTiger123 (talk) 01:51, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- I changed it to
- Unrelated to this specific section: Wherever the first time appears in the article, it would probably be best to add a note that all times are Eastern (or Eastern/Pacific).
— RunningTiger123 (talk) 01:35, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
Conflict edit
- The "Proposed changes" section relies heavily on Carter (the first and third paragraphs are sourced almost entirely to him). This may be WP:UNDUE unless other citations can be added to show why all of these details are relevant. If more sources are not added, the sections should be trimmed.
11:35pm
→11:35 pm
for consistencylamented his anxiety
– weird word choiceincluding Los Angeles Times
→including the Los Angeles Times
- Only link Los Angeles Times and The New York Times at first occurrence (both are linked at least two extra times in the article)
- Ref. 131 and 132 should use the same citation style as the rest of the article
Reaction and media coverage edit
- Ref. 140 doesn't really mention the details it supports
reminiscent of the Obama "Hope" poster
– that's a bit of a stretch, I'm going to need a pretty clear source for that- Can't find anything in refs. 152–155 mentioning that Zucker's reputation was damaged (it definitely was, but sources here don't mention it)
- Ref. 157, 171, and 176 should have citation style updated
- Ricky Gervais should probably be linked
- Done.
- Paragraph for ref. 164 is currently inappropriate WP:SYNTH because there is no source connecting the 1992 and 2010 incidents
Leno retained an talent agent, a publicist, and entertainment lawyers
– inappropriate synthesis again with the current sources- Also:
an talent agent
→a talent agent
- Also:
"raced past the reviled likes..."
– this direct quote doesn't quite match the source- Paragraph on Kimmel's response seems incomplete – didn't he criticize Leno more when he appeared on "10 at 10"? That feels like something worth mentioning.
- I added a wrap-up sentence regarding Kimmel's criticism of Leno with an Entertainment Weekly reference.
"There's been three hosts..."
– unsourced direct quoteThe comedians who came out in defense...
– probably should have a source or be cut, especially the latter half of the sentence10:00pm
→10:00 pm
Conan's lead-in
→O'Brien's lead-in
- Don't link NBC Sports and Dick Ebersol again
despite O'Brien's success...
– this part of the sentence isn't mentioned in the source, so it's inappropriate synthesis
— RunningTiger123 (talk) 03:55, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
Settlement edit
Sorry for the delay, I'll try to get the rest of the review knocked out ASAP.
"betrayed"
is a direct quote, so it needs a source.above standard GE levels
– not in source and can easily be removedthey have done
→[they] have done
- Ref. 216 (Carter) cannot prove that Leno's lead
held for much of the rest of his run
if it was published in 2010- Added another ref. -- LuK3 (Talk) 12:56, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- It's another 2010 source – the source should be from 2014 or later if it discussed information up to 2014. RunningTiger123
- Added another ref. -- LuK3 (Talk) 12:56, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
(talk) 00:41, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
— RunningTiger123 (talk) 02:15, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Impact edit
Also Leno's larger staff...
– sentence is not supported by source, removeany effort to mention O'Brien's tenure was whitewashed from company history
– overstatement, they simply removed episodes from the internet- Ref. 242 links to the wrong page.
— RunningTiger123 (talk) 02:27, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Aftermath edit
the show averages
→the show averaged
US$4 million per episode
– source says 2 million- No need to link Jeff Gaspin or Rick Ludwin
- The current wording implies both Graboff and Gaspin left in November 2011, but that's not right – the easiest fix is to remove
in November 2011
. - Ref. 258 appears to be an unauthorized copy of an episode clip – I would remove it (WP:COPYLINK).
until he announced Jimmy Fallon...
– weird wording; maybe useuntil Jimmy Fallon became the next host of the franchise in February 2014
?Less than a month removed from hosting Tonight...
– irrelevant paragraph, removein addition to appearing on
→and later appeared on
(current wording implies appearances were on same date)- Ref. 278 doesn't talk about O'Brien or Triumph at all
In 2017, mention was made of the host in NBC's 90th Anniversary Special
– unsourced- Ref. 281 doesn't mention Leno, as far as I can tell.
— RunningTiger123 (talk) 03:02, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Sorry for the lengthy review and the delay – overall, it's a really strong article. Once the above comments are resolved, I'll be happy to support promotion. RunningTiger123 (talk) 03:03, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for the thorough review RunningTiger123. I believe I addressed all of the issues raised above. -- LuK3 (Talk) 13:54, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- There are a few spots where I replied to your fixes across all sections that still need to be addressed (mostly grammar); otherwise, everything else looks good. RunningTiger123 (talk) 00:47, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for pointing those out, I believe it should be good now. -- LuK3 (Talk) 13:53, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
- Looks good! Passing shortly. RunningTiger123 (talk) 02:20, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for pointing those out, I believe it should be good now. -- LuK3 (Talk) 13:53, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
- There are a few spots where I replied to your fixes across all sections that still need to be addressed (mostly grammar); otherwise, everything else looks good. RunningTiger123 (talk) 00:47, 20 August 2022 (UTC)