Talk:2,4-Dinitrophenol/Archive 1

Effects on pH

Hi, I was wondering, with it dissipating the proton gradient over the membrane, isn't it also likely to mess with the pH of the cell? Quite how it would affect it I'm not too sure, since there's an inner and out mitochondrial membrane over which protons could be carried. Anyone any ideas? Jph53 20:42, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I als also thinking, wouldn't dinitrophenol rapidly change cellular pH? Wouldn't it cause cellular pH to change to blood pH (7.4). Would this not have detrimental effects on cellular biochemistry? Jph53 17:31, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

2,4-DNP

isn't this the abbreviation? yet 2,4-dnp links somewhere else. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.151.253.53 (talk) 01:25 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I realise this comment is ancient and the redirect has been changed but I though I'd say that I agree, I've only ever heard it called "2,4-DNP", never simply "DNP", but for some reason, the media and this article seem to be using the shorter name. Will Bradshaw (talk) 10:14, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Dinitrophenyl

Dinitrophenyl redirects here; however, dinitrophenyl has a different definition in www.cancer.gov. Albmont (talk) 19:37, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Study Types

It seems that most (if not all) of the sources used here are case reports or case series. Are there any clinical trials or cohort studies for 2,4-DNP use as a diet drug? If so incidence rates, mortality rates, and other statistics should be included in the text. If not then perhaps this point should be mentioned in order to not mislead the reader. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.74.172.69 (talk) 01:51, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

There were several clinical trials, including those by Cutting and Tainter (see the references). The most extensive was performed by Simkins (also currently referenced), who studied the effects of DNP on 159 subjects who were kept on DNP for many months to over a year. Simkins states on page 2197 that "One cannot refrain from remarking that, in view of the remarkably extensive use of the nitrophenols, often without medical supervision, fatalities are extremely rare." Gaberdine2 (talk) 22:13, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

The studies you reference are 80 years old? Anything more current? And I still don't see any incidence rates/mortality rates/ or anything really to back up your statement. I'm glad to know Simkins opinion, but let's see the numbers so readers can formulate their own opinion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.230.132.6 (talk) 14:49, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

UK Food Standards Agency press release 1 Nov 2012 Depending on the amount consumed, signs of acute poisoning could include nausea, vomiting, restlessness, flushed skin, sweating, dizziness, headaches, rapid respiration and irregular heart-beat, possibly leading to coma and death. Consuming lower amounts over longer periods could lead to cataracts and skin lesions and effects on the heart, blood and nervous system. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.213.110.4 (talk) 11:48, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

The latest published study Would You Use It With a Seal of Approval? Important Attributes of 2,4-Dinitrophenol (2,4-DNP) as a Hypothetical Pharmaceutical ProductVaioG (talk) 12:13, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Dead link

During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

• http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp64.html}}
  • In 2,4-Dinitrophenol on 2011-05-25 06:55:13, 404 Not Found
  • In 2,4-Dinitrophenol on 2011-06-10 04:39:55, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 04:40, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps this is what was "Not Found" ...

https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/ToxProfiles/tp64.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.201.185.190 (talk) 13:14, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

What does this mean?

"It is incompatible with heavy metals and their compounds." What does this mean please? 2.31.6.29 (talk) 09:45, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

That statement is uselessly vague, so I simply removed it.ChemNerd (talk) 15:02, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks 2.31.6.29 (talk) 16:30, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Demonized

DNP does hold medical value in lower safer doses, or for short cycles of intermediate doses. See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25721504 and http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-02-reverse-diabetes-fatty-liver-disease.html . This is all about mitochondrial uncoupling, whether by a protonophore or by any other mechanism. --IO Device (talk) 11:53, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

¶ Altho evidently not part of the US pharmaceutical market, DNP is still available in pill form (by mail, via the internet) from somewhat vague sources - not brand name pharm manufacturers - that are not nearly candid enough about the dangers of prolonged/heavy dosage. However, the number of satisfied, un-poisoned, customers over the decades does suggest that it may be effective IF taken carefully and in moderation (dosage, time, frequency, duration, etc.). Perhaps there should be some discussion of a safe DNP regimen in this article. Sussmanbern (talk) 03:25, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

How high do the temperatures get?

In the article it says, without citation, "Accordingly, DNP overdose will cause fatal hyperthermia, with body temperature rising to as high as 44 °C (111 °F) shortly before death."

I looked through some case studies to see how high people's temperatures typically get.

"Dying to be thin: a dinitrophenol related fatality." PMID 15487646. He died with an oral temperature of 102 degrees Fahrenheit.

"Deliberate poisoning with dinitrophenol (DNP): an unlicensed weight loss pill." PMID 20156878. This was an extremely high dose: 14 pills of DNP (total dose 2.8g) with suicidal intent. His temperature, measured at the tympanic membrane, was 100 degrees Fahrenheit.

"Two deaths attributed to the use of 2,4-dinitrophenol." These are the highest that I found: 103 and 106 degrees.

So, I definitely believe that somebody could have ended up with a 111 degree body temperature from 2,4-DNP. It doesn't seem typical, but it's possible. Still, we should rewrite this as something we can cite, right? Unless somebody has a reference for 111 degrees Fahrenheit, maybe we should use one or more of these case studies, or better, find a review of case studies that gives a value for typical or maximum temperature. Bubbline (talk) 19:36, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

@Bubbline:. Thanks for raising this, I agree that the sourcing for this is poor. I've checked the review I linked to above and there is only one case report from the 30s which gives the temperature as > 110 °F (43 °C). The more recent ones (and what the authors say is typical) give the maximum temperature as around 40 °C (104 °F) and I think this is probably better to include as 110 F is exceptional. SmartSE (talk) 20:47, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Without a well-sourced figure (I guess it is of note if this drug can raise the body's temperature to an unusually high level) I think it's better to just use sources to state that the drug causes fatal hyperthermia. --Cptbigglesworth266 (talk) 09:31, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

It's not necessarily the bodily hyperthermia that kills. Death from DNP may be from organ dysfunction or other causes. Using some of the examples noted above, 100, 102 or 103 are hardly supposed to be fatal. DNP may have greater retention in some organs than in others. --IO Device (talk) 11:31, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Legal status section

1. Thanks to User:IO Device for catching the fact that I initially added the section with insufficient citations.
2. However, I do believe a Legal status section is warranted, as this is a substance which continues to be exchanged on the grey market. I am open to discuss the inclusion of such a section!
3. What are your thoughts on this FDA press release? The vendor in question was arrested at his home, and discovered with 2,4-DNP and pillmaking equipment. But he was jailed for mail fraud. Does this imply that his sale of the substance was legal, or at least non-illegal? What does that mean for the potential Legal status section?

Asgardiator (talk) 01:32, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

To make a long story short, if you have one or more references that specifically legally claim that DNP cannot be purchased or sold for human consumption in the U.S., please first share it here, but also quote the relevant law text here. All/other links pasted by you thus far are irrelevant in this regard.

Mail fraud for inaccurate or unsanitary encapsulation is seemingly just the government's way of retaliating because someone died of an overdose. I am not opposed to having this interesting incident noted in the article, but this in itself does not in any way seem to make DNP illegal. Moreover, the reference does not warrant a legal status section.

--IO Device (talk) 04:36, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Okay, I reduced it to a single sentence following the statement about related deaths. This should help to imply that deaths led to the investigation, while keeping the sentence relevant.

Asgardiator ^{Iä! Iä!} 16:58, 10 September 2015 (UTC)