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Talk:1964 New York World's Fair/GA1

< Talk:1964 New York World's Fair
Latest comment: 4 months ago by ZKang123 in topic GA Review

GA Review

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Latest comment: 4 months ago109 comments2 people in discussion
Passed. ZKang123 (talk) 00:25, 17 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: Epicgenius (talk · contribs) 01:20, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Reviewer: ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 09:39, 11 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Decided to take up this review. Given the extensiveness of the article, I will need some time to look over. I also understand your intentions to bring this to FAC soon, so I will try to review this close to the expected standards.--ZKang123 (talk) 09:39, 11 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Lead

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  • Themed to the concept of "peace through understanding", the fair was centered around a stainless-steel model of the Earth called the Unisphere.
    • I think either term "theme" or "concept" is redundant, given both carry similar meanings. Would say The fair had a theme/concept of "peace through understanding."...
    • was centered around a stainless-steel model of the Earth called the Unisphere. – (from above)... and was centered around the Unisphere – a stainless-steel model of the Earth.
    • Feel free to also combine the two clauses in other ways.
  • The different sections were designed in various architectural styles, though anyone could host an exhibit if they could afford to rent the land and pay for a pavilion. – I'm unsure how the latter clause is related to the former.
  • foods from these restaurants – foods served at these restaurants. Also I'm not sure if in US English food can be pluralised. Might say "dishes" or something.
  • Exhibitors also displayed sculptures, visual art, and artifacts. In addition, many consumer products were featured at the fair – would just combine the latter sentence to the former. (ie. Exhibitors also displayed sculptures, visual art, and artifacts alongside other consumer products (by who?)
  • Though the event was a financial failure that was criticized in the contemporary press – Though the event was criticized in contemporary press as a financial failure

Development

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  • social upheaval in the early 1960s – social upheavals.... Given the other events mentioned, I would pluaralise.
  • was the lawyer Robert Kopple – remove "the"
  • who first discussed the idea of a 1964 fair at a family dinner – who first discussed the idea at a family dinner
  • and suggested it... – before suggesting it...
  • met with 35 potential financiers at the 21 Club restaurant to ask for funding. – I believe "ask for funding" is already implied when they were already meeting the "potential financiers".
  • to ask that the BIE recognize the fair. – for BIE's recognition of the fair.
  • would not give the fair formal recognition – decided not to give formal recognition to the fair.
  • world's fairs could run for one 6-month period – I would add "at most" or "only", given I see it's been proposed for the fair to run for two years.
    • Done. Funnily enough, the previous fair (1939-1940) ran for two years and did get BIE recognition. I think the two-year rule may have been changed at some point, but it's also just one of several reasons that the BIE chose not to recognize the 1964-1965 fair. Epicgenius (talk) 17:49, 11 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • had tried to request an exemption for the 1964 fair – remove "for the 1964 fair". I think it's obvious what the exemption is for given the article's subject.
  • The WFC planned to issue $500 million in bonds[27][57] (later decreased to $150 million). – The WFC planned to issue $500 million in bonds, which were later decreased to $150 million.
  • The 1964 fair was to be themed to the concept of "peace through understanding" – again I recommend a reword.
  • most of this cost – much of the cost
  • where selected guests could view construction. – ..could view the construction
  • Several hotels were developed nearby – Do you mean hotels nearby were (re)developed or new hotels were built nearby?
  • and diverted part of the Flushing River underground. – just curious if this means they were diverted into underground canals.
  • By April 1961, thirty-four countries had agreed to... and the city agreed to spend – suggest rewording either "agreed to" to vary the vocabulary a bit.
  • The WFC finally hired – eventually hired
  • but continuing complaints about discrimination prompted New York governor Nelson Rockefeller to form a committee to investigate these complaints. – but persistent complaints about discrimination... to form an investigative committee into these complains. Personally I'm also trying to find a way to avoid repetition of "complaints"; if you can find another way to reword/condense this clause, feel free.
  • not all of these governments – only some of these governments. Might mention which governments then were actively developing or otherwise.
  • exactly a year before the fair was to open, – exactly a year before the fair's opening
  • only 48 of the 200 proposed buildings had even started construction,[141] even though all major structures had to be under construction by May 1963 – only 48 of the 200 proposed buildings had started construction, even though construction for all major structures had to begin/were scheduled to begin by the subsequent month. I suggest "subsequent month" given "at the time" refers to the date mentioned just before (April 22, 1963)
  • At a luncheon in March 1962, Moses lamented that construction had fallen behind schedule ...Moses denied rumors that construction had fallen behind schedule. – I like the irony. For the latter sentence, maybe attribute a date (July 1963).
  • There were also disagreements over whether students should receive discounted tickets, which Moses opposed;[149][150] he was ultimately forced to sell discounted tickets. – Moses opposed selling discounted tickets for students but was ultimately forced to (by whom?).
  • Tbh I don't exactly like the Moses guy at this point haha. If I recall he was the same guy who ripped up the NYC streetcars right?
    • Yeah, he basically ripped up entire neighborhoods to make way for highways, and was infamously against public transit. He also had his hands in a half-dozen NYC government agencies, so his legacy is pretty controversial. Epicgenius (talk) 17:49, 11 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • the Chicago Tribune wrote that – ...reported that. Also wikilink The Chicago Tribune.
  • they sought to demolish a pavilion that would not be completed for the fair's opening. – something about this phrase is a bit awkward. Maybe it should be that would not be ready..?
  • before the fair opened – before the fair's opening
  • Quite some interesting details so far. But also curious: are there reasons for the construction delays? Like, funding and supplying issues?
    • Basically, yeah. I did not initially go into details about the construction delays because each pavilion was delayed for different reasons, and the info is spread out across a dozen sources. But I will look further into this on Thursday. Epicgenius (talk) 00:08, 12 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
      • Try then to give a broad overview; some common challenges faced by most pavilions and note prominent examples.--12:21, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

More to come.--ZKang123 (talk) 09:39, 11 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Opening

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Continued.

  • a college student from New Jersey was the first visitor – the first visitor was a student from New Jersey. I think emphasising on the first visitor is important.
  • Many exhibitors did hire a racially diverse staff – change "did hire" to "hired"
  • One pavilion, the Belgian Village, was not finished – ... was not completed to prevent repetition of the previous.
  • for part of 1964 – for part of that year
  • at least 6.7 million foreign visitors, out of an estimated – remove comma
  • the WFC employed only about 180 to 200 people directly. – the WFC only directly employed about 180 to 200 people.
  • Allied Maintenance was responsible for maintenance and also handled deliveries during the 1964 season (the Rentar Corporation took over deliveries during 1965). – Allied Maintenance was responsible for maintenance and also handled deliveries during the 1964 season, but was later replaced by the Rentar Corporation in the following year.
  • Exhibitors were required to be open – ...to be opened. Or "to operate"

Fairground

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Culture

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  • WFC rules officially prevented the fair's officials from influencing the design or contents of any exhibits, although in practice, WFC officials had a significant impact on the contents of exhibits. – this sentence is rather repetitive. Maybe could be condensed into: While WFC rules officially prevented the fair's officials from influencing the design or contents of any exhibits, they still retained a significant impact on the exhibits' contents.
  • the Brass Rail firm – is firm part of the name? If so, shouldn't it be capitalised?
  • was supposed to have operated – do you mean was supposed to operate?
  • and the Brass Rail instead – remove the article.
  • while the Malaysia pavilion served Tiger Beer and satay. – lol Malaysia serving our drinks eh? Wait... this was the year before Singapore's independence lol.
  • Moses should just chill really. And banning rock-and-roll? Lol
  • Ok, got my answer for the LDS pavillion.
  • The Mexico pavilion displayed art during the 1965 season as well – would also mention what art is also displayed given you earlier stated examples for the UAE and Sudan. I guess from the source title it's Aztec art. Perhaps also those by Frida Kahlo?
  • and the Ford Mustang was launched just before it was displayed at the fair. – ...before its display at the fair.

More to come.--ZKang123 (talk) 12:21, 12 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Operation

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Aftermath

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  • I personally think the "site clearing" and "remaining structures" subsections could be merged given they cover and mention both the demolition and relocation of pavilions.
  • to turn the fairground to a park. – to turn the fairground into a park.
  • for an 1989 World's Fair on the site, marking the 1964 fair's 25th anniversary. – ...to mark the 1964 fair's...
  • Profits from the fair were to have been used – something about "were to have been used" is a bit awkward
  • many industrial exhibitors were loath to sponsor – I'm not so sure about the phrase "were loath to sponsor". Like, they don't wish to sponsor?
  • Expo 67 officials also sought positive press coverage for their fair, a significant departure from Moses's approach. – I suppose this "Moses' approach" is basically him being stubborn and brushing away the criticisms and blaming the press when things didn't go well? (would clarify a bit specifically)

Impact

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  • Wikilink Disneyland
  • and large number of attractions were overwhelming to visitors. – and the overwhelming number of attractions for visitors
  • ostentatious world's fair – is the word "ostentatious" lifted from the source?
  • I would shift the earlier brief commentary of the architecture to just before that paragraph of the architecture.
  • To think of it now, how did the fair really live up to its motto "peace through understanding"? Is there some commentary on what the motto means and how it's selected?
    • It did not really live up to its motto - for the most part, many of the largest countries were absent, and the fair mainly focused on commercial attractions instead of international and state exhibits. I've added a sentence about how the motto was selected. Epicgenius (talk) 18:26, 15 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • and that it had highlighted Flushing Meadows–Corona Park. – I find there's something dangling here. Why is the park highlighted? Like, is it due to the successful restoration?

Image review

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A combination of historical and contemporary photos are used for this article.

  • File:New York World's Fair August 1964.jpeg – I'm not sure of its copyright status: The source link showed its under a non-commercial creative commons license. Although an archived version showed that it's under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0 Generic.
    • Generally, I think we rely on the license that the image had when it was uploaded to Wikipedia, since previous licenses can't be revoked even if the license is later changed. In this case, it was licensed under CC-BY-SA 2.0 at the time it was uploaded to Wikipedia, so that license is still valid. Epicgenius (talk) 18:26, 15 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
      • Understood. Thanks for the clarification.
  • File:6405 NY World's Fair 16 1964 (51190787295).jpg, File:6405 NY World's Fair 6 1964 (51189014682).jpg, File:6405 NY World's Fair 3 1964 (51190488619).jpg, File:6405 NY World's Fair 9 1964 (51190488249).jpg check out (from Flickr under CC2.0)
  • File:1965 new york world fair.jpg, File:Fountains, NY Worlds Fair '64.JPG, File:Terrace on the Park - Flushing Meadows, Queens, NYC.jpg, are under public domain
  • File:Entrance to 1964 New York World's Fair.jpg – copyright here is also unclear. Did the uploader had permission from the tourist to upload it to commons?
  • Map images are licensed under the terms of the No known copyright restrictions.
  • File:Wisconsin Pavilion, Neillsville.jpg checks out
  • File:255-CC-65-HC-223, front.jpg is by NASA, under public domain
  • File:NY World's Fair '64 - Les Poupees de Paris (ut) - Flickr - PLCjr.jpg is by the same uploader of the lead image, but this one is def under CC2.0
  • File:Berlin Pavilion.jpg claims to be self-photographed, although there's no exif data. I shall assume good faith it's indeed their photograph.
  • The source for File:New York Worlds Fairgrounds.jpg is a little unclear. No author information (I have higher suspicion for commons uploaders which are redlinked)
    • I have swapped out that image as well. (Incidentally, I went to Flushing Meadows Corona Park today, but I forgot to take a picture of both of these structures. Maybe I can do that next time.) Epicgenius (talk) 22:27, 15 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • File:Unisphere in summer.jpg checks out.

That's all for prose and image comments. Would do a source review later.--ZKang123 (talk) 06:34, 15 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

@ZKang123: Thanks for the comments so far. I've addressed all of the concerns you brought up. Epicgenius (talk) 22:27, 15 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Source review passed.--ZKang123 (talk) 09:57, 16 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Source review

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  • Earwig mainly flags names of organisations or places (e.g. New York World's Fair, Bureau International des Expositions, Queens Museum and the New York Hall of Science)
  • Generally sources are from New York Times (reliable source per Wikipedia:RSP), other commentary published by universities or local agencies regarding the fair planning and inception.
  • Crosschecking per this revision.
    • Ref 1 ("Flushing Meadows Corona Park: World's Fair Playground") checks out for each claim. Though for the "66 (80 including nations without full exhibits)" in the infobox, might cite where the 66 number is from (I know it's probably stated somewhere down in the body).
    • Ref 19 checks out
    • Red 139 is missing author information (Milt Freudenheim). (please double check for other news sources given this would be further scrutinized at FAC stage)
      • I have done this for the other newspapers.com clippings, where I had to input the authors manually. For the other citations, I copied the authors directly from the source, or they were autofilled by a citation tool. Epicgenius (talk) 17:30, 16 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
    • (I wonder if it should be newspapers.com or Newspapers.com. The low-capitalised is a bit weird. Would leave this for FAC)
    • There aren't newspapers.com clippings for other news articles (e.g. Ref 202, 206, 485, 499)? How did you access them though? (Btw, given this is a GAN, I won't be requesting for all offline sources, but I just want to know).
      • Basically, there were a bunch of sources such as Newsday that were available both on ProQuest and newspapers.com. For other sources, like the Austin Statesman, I could only access them through ProQuest. I will probably add more newspapers.com clippings before I send this to FAC. However, both the newspapers.com clipping and the ProQuest ID are basically convenience links and aren't technically required in order for people to verify the citation (for example, someone could probably access the same newspapers at the Queens Public Library). Epicgenius (talk) 17:30, 16 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
    • Ref 198 ("World's Fair, Film Co. Sign Contract") checks out.
    • Ref 255 (Your Guide to the Fair, p19) checks out.
    • Ref 282 brings me to a link with "usamodernist.org"
    • Ref 286: The link on fountains bring me to worldsfairphotos.com by Bill Cotter. Is he a reliable source? The website seems like a fanpage to me.
    • I suppose for Ref 355 "marvels ranging from microwave ovens" is to support the claim in the article: "introduced and showcased many consumer products". Ref 356 checks out.
    • Ref 503: Would add via Issuu. Also from my understanding of the provided page (p71) it noted the layout (Beaux-Arts plan) is retained, but didn't mention the names.
      • I've done this. Also, I didn't notice the thing about the street names. There aren't any street signs in the modern-day park, at least as far as I can tell (all of the paths are technically unnamed now), so I've removed that bit. Epicgenius (talk) 17:30, 16 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
    • Ref 506: Like Ref 1, use publisher parameter. Title could be: Flushing Meadows Corona Park – Garden of Meditation. Or just Garden of Meditation.
    • Ref 575: Remove "See for example" in name parameter. Also is it really just "NJ" or does it stand for something?
      • I've done this. The name of the website is literally NJ.com, which is the shared domain for a dozen newspapers in New Jersey. Unfortunately I can't tell which of these newspapers originally published the article, but in general, most of the articles on nj.com appear in several of these newspapers. Epicgenius (talk) 17:30, 16 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

That's all the issues I find in my spotchecks.--ZKang123 (talk) 09:57, 16 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Putting article on hold.--ZKang123 (talk) 11:16, 16 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thanks again ZKang123. I have fixed the remaining issues you pointed out. Epicgenius (talk) 17:30, 16 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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