Talk:1948 Arab–Israeli War

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 August 2024

In the section titled End of the first phase missing one occurrence of the word injured (fifth paragraph).

Original: the Jordanian Arab Legion had 300 of its men killed and 400–500 (including irregulars and Palestinian volunteers fighting under the Jordanians);

Suggestion: the Jordanian Arab Legion had 300 of its men killed and 400–500 injured (including irregulars and Palestinian volunteers fighting under the Jordanians); — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wclaytong (talk • contribs) 07:02, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

✅ Done. Thank you. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 07:07, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Infobox image(s)

What is the reason for this revert, @Snowstormfigorion? IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 05:34, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

The thing is I don't see that there's a reason for placing a collage in the infobox; the images are identical in purpose of demonstration and sentiment to the ones in the body, which, per MOS:PERTINENCE, are much ample and number 40+ and include multiple galleries. One of the images in the collage, albeit slightly cropped, is already used in the body. Snowstormfigorion (talk) 11:48, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

@Snowstormfigorion: For me, I don't see a reason to place an exclusively Israeli picture in the infobox. We can either replace it with a more neutral picture or use a collage. Makeandtoss (talk) 11:53, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

The image is not meant to portray one side over the other; rather, it merely captures a pivotal moment in the conflict. As for the collage, as per the above, I don't see that there's a need for whatsoever given that the article is ladened with images and galleries/collages in the body. Snowstormfigorion (talk) 12:30, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

How is multiple images not superior to a single image? IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 16:08, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

See the above; the number of images used in the infobox by itself is impertinent. Snowstormfigorion (talk) 16:40, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

"The number of images used in the infobox by itself is impertinent"? Then why have you reverted my edit? This doesn't make sense. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 16:47, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Impertinent as in simply more images are not "superior" to less and vice versa; again, see the above for why a collage in the infobox is redundant in the case of this article, which further applies to 1948 Palestine war. Snowstormfigorion (talk) 16:57, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

So your opinion is that it doesn't matter either way whether we use one or multiple images? Myself and seemingly Makeandtoss prefer multiple images so why not go with that? IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 17:03, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Because that's not how this works, we don't merely go by opinions or preference; I've presented based on policy why a collage in the articles(s) is not needed, unless you're willing to refute this in a parallel manner a notion alone does not constitute a counterargument. Snowstormfigorion (talk) 17:17, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

How can I refute that "a college in the articles(s) is not needed"? Obviously it isn't needed but the question is is it preferable. I and another prefer it. You oppose it. I think we'll need more input from others. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 17:21, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

If it's not needed and "obviously" so, it's WP:NONCONSTRUCTIVE. Snowstormfigorion (talk) 17:35, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

The 1973 War was far shorter, less consequential than the 1948 War, and has an image collage. I think the article should feature a collage. Lightiggy (talk) 01:50, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Seems it is three to one in favour of using multiple images. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 02:04, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Drop the multiple mini images from one that is accessible for all. Moxy🍁 02:13, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Support multiple images per NPOV. It's standard for major war articles. See World War I and World War II. Besides, the flag image is before the entry of Arab regular armies the following day, when the 1947–1948 civil war in Mandatory Palestine really became the 1948 Arab–Israeli War. إيان (talk) 03:55, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

The flag image is from 10 March 1949 I believe. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 04:08, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Moxy, not sure I'm following where you're getting it; could you please further elaborate? Snowstormfigorion (talk) 04:56, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

@Snowstormfigorion: Reverting three times against multiple editors in an ARBPIA article is WP:edit warring. Please self-revert. Makeandtoss (talk) 09:09, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

I've reverted IOHANNVSVERVS as per WP:NOTDEMOCRACY; major changes to ARBPIA articles are decided through community discourse and consensus, see WP:DISCUSSCONSENSUS, not through vote-tallying. Snowstormfigorion (talk) 09:31, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

@Snowstormfigorion: That is correct, but consensus is established through talk page discussions, not through edit warring your preferred version. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:16, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Well, last time I reverted was nine days ago, the two reverts were two days in between and I explained throughly in the talk page the rationale behind them, with the reverts being to the status quo and as opposed to my "preferred version"; wouldn't call this edit warring, but I guess by some definition it could be. If so, then my apologies, keeping this here henceforth. Snowstormfigorion (talk) 11:47, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Implemented above consensus. Selfstudier (talk) 11:53, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

@Selfstudier: Again and as per the above, this is a major change to a contentious topic, ARBPIA article, see WP:NHC and please self-revert until further editorial input is given and consensus is evidently clear. Snowstormfigorion (talk) 12:06, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

The consensus IS clear. Selfstudier (talk) 12:16, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

No, it's not. As per WP:DISCUSSCONSENSUS, discussion is still ongoing and currently only involves a handful editors; again, please self-revert. Snowstormfigorion (talk) 12:40, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

As I've said above I committed myself to keep the discussion in the talk page, however, Selfstudier, it’s not your jurisdiction to decide that consensus has been reached in an ongoing discussion concerning a major change to a CTOP article. Moreover, as said above, more community and editorial input is needed for such change and an WP:RFC would also be constructive in reaching a collective community consensus as per WP:CONACHIEVE. Snowstormfigorion (talk) 10:11, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

See ur talk page. Selfstudier (talk) 10:25, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Seen, see yours. Snowstormfigorion (talk) 10:50, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Just so you know, guys, there's this wonderful little template called {{outdent}} designed for situations exactly like this. In my experience it's a little easier to assume good faith and resolve disputes without outside help when you're not reading and responding to text jammed into an inch (2.54 cm) or so. Daniel Case (talk) 20:35, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 September 2024

Change "At the end of a series of offensives that began April 1948, in which Zionist forces had conquered cities and territories in Mandatory Palestine in preparation for the establishment of a Jewish state, Zionist leaders announced the Israeli Declaration of Independence on 14 May 1948.[16] The following morning, after the termination of the British Mandate, Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, and expeditionary forces from Iraq entered Palestine." to " At the end of a series of offensives that began April 1948, in which Zionist forces had conquered cities and territories in Mandatory Palestine in preparation for the establishment of a Jewish state, Zionist leaders announced the Israeli Declaration of Independence on 14 May 1948.[16] The following morning, after the termination of the British Mandate, Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, and expeditionary forces from Iraq entered Palestine."

to

"Zionist leaders announced the Israeli Declaration of Independence on 14 May 1948, and the following morning, after the termination of the British Mandate, Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, and expeditionary forces from Iraq invaded Palestine and Israel."

There is no citation indicating that "Zionist forces had conquered cities and territories in Mandatory Palestine in preparation for the establishment of a Jewish state", because there is not any historical record of this. There is also no credible citation detailing any "series of offensives that began April 1948". 2607:FEA8:539F:FA00:9C3C:BD87:A464:1402 (talk) 14:04, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Not done, there is citation 16 in the lead and 151 in the article body.Selfstudier (talk) 14:44, 27 September 2024 (UTC)