Talk:1901 Boston Marathon/GA1

GA Review

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Nominator: Habst (talk · contribs) 22:35, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 00:45, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:45, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

• For File:MacDonald-Evan Nappen,Esq. Collection.jpg, what is the source? It says "Beckford Photo 1898" but I don't know what that means. If it was published in 1898 it should have a "PD-US-expired" tag like the other photos, but it has a tag implying it was released into the public domain, which in turn implies and was not published at that time.
• What makes arrs.run a reliable source? Per this page it's volunteer-run; does it get treated as reliable by other reliable sources, such as newspapers or race organizations?
• Similarly, what makes athleticspodium.com a reliable source? Per this page it looks like it's a one-man operation, and he says he sometimes gets his results from Wikipedia, which is not a good sign.

I'll do spotchecks next, probably later today. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

@Mike Christie, thanks for doing this review.

• I have updated the tag of File:MacDonald-Evan Nappen,Esq. Collection.jpg to say that its copyright has expired because according to the description it was published in 1898.
• I think that Association of Road Racing Statisticians is a reliable source because it's been cited by other organizations like the Chicago Tribune, Runner's World, and AP News, as well as many others according to this search: "according to the association of road racing statisticians".
• Athletics Podium is a newer endeavor, but I think its recap of the 1901 Boston Marathon is still suitable for sourcing. Also I read the line about Wikipedia in the "About" page differently. The sentence is It’s really hard to find proper information, even from the official websites or Wikipedia, which is the ‘shortest way’ to have results. and the context is it's in a paragraph justifying the existence of the site – it never says that data is sourced from Wikipedia, in fact it says the opposite, that Wikipedia is a bad source for results and that's why he made the website. It's created by the Turkish sports journalist Şevket Furkan Erbay who has worked at several different traditional media outlets in the past to establish his credibility. It's also not a one-man operation as there are at least five editors and two verifiers according to the list of contributors.

I'll go through the spot checks next, thanks again for your thorough review. --Habst (talk) 14:33, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Spotchecks. Footnotes refer to this version.

• FN 1 cites "There was little course control, as according to the Globe "hundreds" of bicyclists tailed the leading runners encumbered by automobiles, motor carriages, equipages, equestrians and children." The source has "While hundreds of bicyclists followed the runners up to this point the "gallery" was greatly augmented by automobiles, motor carriages, stylish equipages, equestrians and youngsters". This is too closely paraphrased; see WP:CLOP. I think just making it "cars, horses, and children" would be enough.
  •  Done in Special:Diff/1233196267, thanks. --Habst (talk) 20:13, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
• FN 1 cites "Davis began to speed up, taking advantage of an incline on Cedar Street in West Newton to pass Crimmins and eventually Hughson." Verified.
• FN 8 cites "Being a member of the Mohawk people, William Davis was the first indigenous American to medal at a Boston Marathon, finishing second behind his countryman Caffery. He went on to coach Tom Longboat, winner of the 1908 Boston Marathon." Verified.
• FN 4 cites "Walter C. Kelly wrote in the Buffalo Courier, "The Marathon race of 1901 is a thing of the past. Like many other athletic events, it will now take its place in the annals of the athletic almanac. It will be forgotten, as athletic events are, but the performance of J. J. Caffery [sic] will long be remembered by the racing enthusiasts who long to see the runners reel off mile after mile until they have covered the quarter of a century"." Verified.
• FN 1 cites "The race dynamic began to shift as the runners approached Wellesley. Caffery made his move and overtook Hughson on the Wellsley Hills steep incline. At this point a horse became frightened and ran into the street ahead of the runners, but a bicyclist grabbed the bridles and was able to stop the horse before any runners were injured" Verified.
• FN 6 cites "With about five miles remaining, 1898 Boston Marathon champion Ronald MacDonald was about 90 seconds behind leader Jack Caffery, a distance which MacDonald thought he could easily make up. However, MacDonald began to tire after dabbing himself with what he thought was a water sponge, which he received from his brother via a mobile canteen driven by a bicycle rider." Verified.

After the first one came up with a minor issue I decided to check half a dozen to be on the safe side. They all came up clean, so once the close paraphrasing for the first one is first the spotcheck is passed.

I'll read through and add further comments, probably later today. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:30, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Comments:

• "though it was since retroactively measured": I think "retroactively" is redundant; how about just "it has since been measured"?
  •  Done in Special:Diff/1233196991 --Habst (talk) 20:26, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
• "improving his course record from last year by a further 10 minutes": suggest "previous year".
  •  Done in Special:Diff/1233197143 --Habst (talk) 20:26, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
• "His accompaniment William Davis, a Mohawk Canadian": not sure what the right word is here but I don't think it's "accompaniment". Do you just mean "friend"? There's no mention in the body of the article of an acquaintance between Caffery and Davis. Or do you mean "compatriot"?
  • I meant "compatriot",  Done in Special:Diff/1233197392 --Habst (talk) 20:26, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
• "finished runner-up as Sammy Mellor finished third": "and Sammy" might be better, since "as" implies the two things were simultaneous.
  •  Done in Special:Diff/1233197546 --Habst (talk) 20:26, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
• "C. Crimmins tailed in third place": we've introduced Crimmins so I think we can drop the initial; and do you mean "trailed"?
  • I did mean "trailed",  Done in Special:Diff/1233197764 --Habst (talk) 20:26, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
• "Caffery made his move and overtook Hughson": does "made his move" tell us anything that "Caffery overtook Hughson" doesn't?
  • I don't think it does, so I removed "made his move",  Done in Special:Diff/1233197978 --Habst (talk) 20:26, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
• "The pills had the opposite effect": but it appears it was the chloroform that had the negative effect, not the pills? Maybe "appeared to have the opposite effect"?
  • I changed it to "appeared to have the opposite effect",  Done in Special:Diff/1233198220 --Habst (talk) 20:26, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
• Why are the citations in two of the rows in the table at the end? It's not a problem, but I just wanted to check that the rest of the table is covered by the three citations at the top.
  • The reason why there are only inline citations in John Vrazanis and Fred W. Hughson's rows is because their participation is attested in the inline cites, but not in the general three citations right before the table. All the data in the table is covered by either the inline cites or the three "general" cites. --Habst (talk) 20:26, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

That's everything. OK on the source questions per your comments above -- I think there might be more questions if you were to take this to FAC, but for GA I think they're fine. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:52, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

@Mike Christie, thank you for the helpful review. I've addressed all the above spot-checks and comments. --Habst (talk) 20:26, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Fixes look good; passing. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:20, 7 July 2024 (UTC)