Talk:10 Hronia Mazi

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was retain the new title, 10 Hronia Mazi, per the discussion below. There seems to be a consensus, but please try to refrain from moving articles during active, listed discussions, as it offends some editors. Dekimasuよ! 06:44, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

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The history needs to be moved. Planecrazy22 (talk) 01:40, 8 December 2007 (UTC)…

From WP:RM:

10 Xronia Mazi → 10 Chronia Mazi —(Discuss)— Someone created a new page for the album with the latin spelling translation of the album opposed to the Greek-lish translation. They cut and paste everything to the new page and put a redirect on the old page, but now all the history is gone. I request to move the history of 10 Xronia Mazi to 10 Chronia Mazi. Planecrazy22 (talk) 01:42, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

A history merge would work reasonably well, as the edit histories don't overlap very much (one edit in each case). But are you sure that the latin spelling is the better one? We should decide that, too. Andrewa (talk) 12:49, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Well the X in the Greek language is pronounced sort of like the "H" sound in the English language. So Perhaps it would be better as "10 Hronia Mazi".Planecrazy22 (talk) 18:20, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I believe that the article should be nαmed 10 x.μ. because this is the title of album's cover User:Panagiotis_2007 20:23, December 8 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Panagiotis 2007 (talk • contribs) 18:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

It was shortened for the album cover, but the title track and official name is "10 Xronia Mazi". Plus there is no way to put english initials for 10 x.μ. It would look weird like 10 Ch.M. or 10 H.M. Planecrazy22 (talk) 21:09, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

In terms of Wikipedia:naming conventions, the official name isn't all that important although it does carry some weight. I agree that 10 x.μ. isn't a good article name. But it's not because it looks weird, or because there's no way to do it, see User:Andrewa/10 x.μ.. It's because it doesn't fit our article naming conventions. Andrewa (talk) 04:00, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Well on Phoebus' official site (the song writter and producer for the whole album) it lists the title on the front page as "10 ΧΡΟΝΙΑ ΜΑΖΙ" (or "10 Χρόνια Μαζί" in lowercase if you look in the forum)[1] if you click on the cover. So should it go back to "10 Xronia Mazi", stay at "Chronia" or change over to "Hronia"? Planecrazy22 (talk) 05:27, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

On MAD TV they use for the clips the title ΔΕΣΠΟΙΝΑ ΦΟΙΒΟΣ 10 Χ.Μ. So I believe that we should name the article with this name

ΔΕΣΠΟΙΝΑ ΦΟΙΒΟΣ 10 Χ.Μ.(DESPINA PHOEBUS 10 YEARS TOGETHER) User:Panagiotis_2007 9:23, December 9 (UTC)

Yes but that is just the shortened name---initials for the album. On Phoebus' official site he lists the album name clearly as "10 ΧΡΟΝΙΑ ΜΑΖΙ" or "10 Χρόνια Μαζί". And if you go to the official micro-site[www.despina-phoebus.gr] and click on the album cover at the top, a page comes up with the track listing and the title of the album as "10 ΧΡΟΝΙΑ ΜΑΖΙ". Further more, if you click on the news section, it talks about a future appearance and says "για να υπογράψει το νέο της album «10 Χρόνια Μαζί». Same thing if you click on the discography section. The album comes up as "10 ΧΡΟΝΙΑ ΜΑΖΙ". This is the official site for Despina-Phoebus. Planecrazy22 (talk) 19:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

But do these all official sites, some of them in Greek, tell us anything useful about what the average English speaker would most easily recognise? I think not. Andrewa (talk) 01:54, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Phoebus hasnt updated the english language version of his official site yet, and Vandi's site has yet to mention it. The micro-site dosnt have an English version, so no. The logical way people would recognize it is prob. "10 Xronia Mazi" since its similar to the Greek spelling. But this is wikipedia, and it's not "correct" translation. Actually, judging from how they translate other "χ"'s in names on the English version, it looks like they are going to use 10 Chronia Mazi. We have to wait and see. Planecrazy22 (talk) 02:55, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

A search to see which title English-language album lists are using might be a good idea. I'd do it now but real work beckons! Andrewa (talk) 03:26, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean? Planecrazy22 (talk) 05:02, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking of using Google to find any English-language album listings (record charts and so on) that already featured this title, and see which spelling they used.

So for a start I did a search first with ch and then with x instead. Rather to my surprise X won handsomely. I can't see any particularly authoritatative sites there, though. You might like to try other related searches. The attraction of authoritative sites is not so much their authority per se but just that others are likely to follow their lead. Andrewa (talk) 05:45, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I moved the page to 10 Chronia Mazi, normally i would use an "h" for the greek "x" but "ch" is also used and i was thinking about people who dont know any greek. I didnt realize that there was an active discussion page, so i would support its move. Also, can Panagiotis 2007 stop making albums using the "w" instead of the an "o" and its Minos EMI, not EMI Greece. Also it is almost sure to fail the google test since it came out only days ago, there hasnt been enough time for english language sites to get their hands on it. I do have a talk page so feel free to write me.Grk1011 (talk) 22:54, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

With 4,830 ghits for the X spelling, it doesn't actually do too badly at all...!

Agree that you shouldn't generally use a Roman w to transcribe a small case omega, I guess that's the problem you're referring to. Perhaps you could send this user a note on their talk page? Unsure of the issue with EMI, but I suspect that this isn't the best place to discuss it. Andrewa (talk) 02:47, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean EMI? Planecrazy22 (talk) 14:30, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Grk1011 said above its Minos EMI, not EMI Greece. We don't currently have articles on any organisation by either name, but I'm guessing by the context that it's part of EMI and that there's some disagreement over its name. It's probably a good point, but we need more details, and it's probably easier for Grk1011 to provide them than for me to search for the relevant edits. Andrewa (talk) 19:39, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

It is Minos EMI, that is EMI's Greek recording branch, I have a Peggy Zina's album in my hands right now and that is what it says on the back. Also with the "X" the reason that it is an x in so many places is because it is targeted at greek people who would probably know how to pronounce it. The English Wikipedia is geared towards people who speak english and mostly have no idea how to pronounce a greek word. "10 Xronia Mazi" would imply that you pronounce it 10 Ksronia Mazi. We might as well write it "10 Xpovia Mazi" if we do that. I would like to see it written as "10 Hronia Mazi" with redirects from the other spellings so that everyone can find it. Feel free to post on my talk page with any questions.Grk1011 (talk) 21:28, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Well Greek iTunes is listing it as 10 Hronia Mazi. So I think it should be changed to that....[2] Planecrazy22 (talk) 01:36, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I have moved it to 10 Hronia Mazi. Planecrazy22 (talk) 01:39, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Also sorry for not informing you GRK1011. I originally just wanted the history moved to the new page, but then this whole discussion got going. For future references (I'm sure you know, but maybe just forgot) click the "MOVE" tab at the top of the page next to the "HISTORY" tab to properly move the page. This way the history also gets moved to the new page. Planecrazy22 (talk) 05:14, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

O thanks, I knew there must have been an easier way than copy/paste. I think we should decide that the greek "x" is an "h" when translated so then everyone will write greek in english the same way.Grk1011 (talk) 13:13, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, so im at school right now and the kid next to me says whats this and pronounces the title pretty close to the greek pronounciation using the "hronia." He thought that "chronia" would be more like a "K" or "Ch" as in cheese, but def not "xronia" as he says that it would be pronounced as either a "z" or "ks". So we need to make a system for translations. Also, can we get rid of the "move" thing at the top of the page, we already settled that.Grk1011 (talk) 13:20, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it's settled at all. Instead you have just performed another unilateral move without considering whether consensus existed to support it. However 23,200 ghits does suggest to me that the latest move is correct. Andrewa (talk) 15:34, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

GRK1011, the Move button stays at the top of every page no matter what. So it cant disappear. As for me moving it to "Hronia" with out a "consensus" sorry I guess. I just saw that iTunes which is official listed it with an H, and so did a number of other online retailers such as Musical.gr[3], and Greekcity.com[4]. Although when you type in "10 Hronia Mazi" on google, it asks to correct it to "Xronia". But the average English reader most likely will not know Greek and know to pronounce it with an h sound. If we are going to start a vote, I vote 10 Hronia Mazi, with maybe adding in the article some of the alternate spellings IF necessary. Planecrazy22 (talk) 17:36, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

You're right that the Move this page link (which can appear in various places depending on your user preferences) will always be there. But the other issue is the {{move|10 Xronia Mazi}} template that produces the box It has been proposed below... at the head of the page, and does some other clever stuff as well. I suggest you leave this there until the discussion is closed, and that you leave the decision to close the discussion (or perhaps to relist it at Wikipedia:Requested moves to allow more time for discussion) to more experienced hands. That's not a criticism, I'm impressed by the goodwill being shown here and the progress made. But there's a lot to learn about Wikipedia policies and procedures, and they do help save everyone's time when they're followed. That's what they're for! Andrewa (talk) 23:00, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

So if we all seem to agree that it is "hronia" then isnt the problem solved. Also id like to add that "xronia" is the greenglish spelling, greek written in latin letters that look the closest to the greek ones. the problem is that a greek would for example see a "w" and think omega and therefore "o" while a nongreek would be trying to prounounce it with a "w". the same is with "hronia" and the "X." we need to remember that this is the english wikipedia, not the greenglish one. things need to be written for someone who may only know english.Grk1011 (talk) 01:00, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, if there's consensus on the current name the problem is solved, assuming that whoever closes this discussion agress that we do have consensus. One of the reasons that I recommend caution in closing this discussion is that the process of dicsussing the move has been abnormal here, in that the article has been moved while the discussion is taking place, and the target has been to a name not originally among those proposed when the page was listed at Wikipedia:requested moves.

As I said before, the problem (if there is one) with lower-case omega doesn't affect this discussion.

There is no problem having redirects from other possible article names, or in acknowledging these names in the article itself if this makes it a better article. Normally, other possible names are listed in the introduction, often in the first sentence. Andrewa (talk) 04:22, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

the album has FLOPPED!!!

omg!! i thought that despina vandi's succes would never decline!! but it was once again prooved tha nothing is for sure! The album debuted at #4 where it stayed for a second week (despinas worst debute week in a loooot of time). Afterwards, with heaven struugling to push the album to the top spot with annoyingly heavy promotion (posters and tv adds (by wind mobiles) were everywhere) the album moved up only one spot managing to make it at #3. So far it had got Platinum (making the album her slowest selling one since 1996). Afterwards it fell (free) at #21 (probably her biggest fall ever on the charts, #3-#21). It, afterward slipped at #23 and next week it rised at #22. Since then it has dissapeared from the charts. Isn't it an irony? Despoina and foivos celebrated their 10 year coorperation with this album, and it actually became their biggest DISSASTER (because we are talking about a dissaster here).

PS. The Platinum certification is exaggerated ( it shouldn't be certified even Gold)

--Mysterious Spy (talk) 21:30, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Well i thought the album was great, and it is. It didnt sell many albums because of pirating. The platinum status threshold has dropped from 100,000 a few years ago to less than 30,000 today. I know for a fact, however, that there has been over 30,000 free downloads from greek-fun.com. It was a great album, just not many people "bought" it.Grk1011 (talk) 23:16, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Not only pirating, but also the price of the album played a big role in it. Because it was a triple CD album, it was priced much higher. You see "Thelo" being a huge hit off the album, while "Agapi" (the next single) is doing great in airplay. But Grk1011 is right about the pirating too. Pirating+high cost of album=no purchases. Actually it's not certain that she sold even 30,000 copies. It went platinum before it came out because of high pre-orders. IFPI counted pre-orders for certification. But when the album came out, there wernt so many buys. That's why it wasnt number 1 on the chart like it should have been. Now I believe after this IFPI has changed their policy to firm sales for certification. Greekboy (talk) 07:45, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

• ok u know something? thelw (the first single from the album) is going very well on radio stations. It was #1 on the ifpi airplay charts for 10 weeks ,or so, but isn't it weird that despite the enormous airplay, the single has not made any appearance on the greek top 50 (ifpi singles). Furthermore, the second single (which was not agapi but 10 xronia mazi) also topped the airplay charts where it remained for a couple of weeks. This single also failed to appear on the top 50. The single agapi (3d official release from the album) just topped the airplay charts but it still hasn't made any official appearance on the top 50. What should i assume ? that all 3 singles were released as airplay singles only? but i know that the greek ifpi top 50 counts both sales and airplay!!! very weird... About the album now ... i know that there is piracy in greece and i absolutely know what's going one with the pre-orders. But still, all these (piracy, price and pre-ordes and whatever else u said above) are not an exuse. 10 x.m. is despoina's wost performing album and it is unable to re-enter the charts, which means that sales are VERY low and this is a fact. Whatever happened, (piracy etc.) the album is a flop and i will write something about it, cause it is unfair to write whatever benefits us. We should be objective and cite FACTS not whatever we want to.

thx,

--Mysterious Spy (talk) 11:27, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, if you want to add that in. make sure you have a reliable source because otherwise it is just your opinion. Grk1011 (talk) 15:14, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

For a single to appear in the top 50, it must be released as a CD Singles. Despina has not release any song as a CD single yet from her new CD. Only radio singles. Second, IFPI dosnt have an official airplay chart, but Neilsens does. Thelo topped the charts as you said, but 10 X.M. (song) DID NOT. Anyway, the fact is that Heaven Music screwed up big time, and so did Phoebus. The singles are charting the radio airplay charts, and people love it, but because Heaven and Phoebus decided to make it 3 CD's (it could have been 2 CD's with all the existing songs easily), people have to pay 30+ Euro just to buy it. Add that to the fact that CD sales in general are very low in Greece, and all the rest said above about pirating. The Greek Music industry is dieing. But you can add into the article about the poor performance if you want. That's why the chart is there in the bottom. But you have to get your facts completely right. (about the singles and such) Greekboy (talk) 19:04, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Ta Lefta (Remix)

Can anyone tell me who is they male singing in this song together with Despina? And also which language it is? It doesn't looks like Greek Makedonia (talk) 13:11, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Translation

I'm sorry, but Provlepsimos means more "Predictable" than "Forseeable". I think when she says Oso Problepsimos she means "you are predictable" NOT "you are foreseeable". It simply translates better as predictable. Change it anyone? Queer As Folk (talk) 14:41, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Forseeable and Predictable classically have the same meaning. And Foreseeable is the direct translation to it. If you break it down to route words in Greek, you can see that too. (Pro=for, vlepsi=see, mos=able). Not a scientific breakdown, but you get it. Greekboy (talk) 17:03, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Merger proposal (10 Hronia Mazi)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was merge the pages per the discussion below. Grk1011 (talk) 19:00, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

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This song is only a radio single and all information could be transfered here in about two sentences. Grk1011 (talk) 13:36, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I support the proposed merger for the reasons listed above. Greekboy (talk) 03:13, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I strongly support the merger as the article is redundant Queer As Folk (talk) 20:45, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Merger proposal (Agapi)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was merge the pages per the discussion below. Grk1011 (talk) 19:00, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

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This song is only a radio single and all information could be transfered here in about two sentences. Grk1011 (talk) 13:36, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I support the proposed merger for the reasons listed above. Greekboy (talk) 03:14, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I strongly support the merger as the article is redundant Queer As Folk (talk) 20:44, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Merger proposal (Fantasou Apla)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was merge the pages per the discussion below. Grk1011 (talk) 19:00, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

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This song is only a radio single and all information could be transfered here in about two sentences. Grk1011 (talk) 13:36, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I support the proposed merger for the reasons listed above. Greekboy (talk) 03:14, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I strongly support the merger as the article is redundant Queer As Folk (talk) 20:44, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Language

I know this is a bit picky, but given that there are three tracks (on disk 3) in English, should the Language section on the infobox not say "Greek/English". Queer As Folk (talk) 18:33, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Having seen that the Destiny version reads Greek, English, I have modified 10xm to read the same. Queer As Folk (talk) 18:35, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

That is probably how it should have been in the first place. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 18:38, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Title

I don't really consider this a drastic move when it is written 10 H.M. on 1. the album cover 2. all MAD sources, including the videos of individual songs, (so this makes it pretty obvious), as well as the title it charted under in IFPI. It's not a stylistic issue, MAD calls the song "10 hronia mazi", but obv that's not the title of the album. GreekStar12 (talk) 22:23, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Any move that is not obvious is drastic. What made this move inappropriate was that there was already a discussion and consensus reached for the current name. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 02:04, 13 May 2010 (UTC)