Portal talk:Heraldry

Portal Creation

Fellow editors, Following the consensus reached that an heraldic portal would be welcome at Wikipedia, I have started the portal. Rest assured that I have NO IDEA what I'm doing. If you can think of a way to improve this portal, do so as soon as possible. I won't be offended by any changes to my material, because I know I've not done much good yet.--Eva ^db 11:55, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

• From what I've seen it looks very good. Excellent job Eva ^db. Dryzen 19:45, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
• Looks great, but I think Eire should be called Republic of Ireland... Lozleader 19:48, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

How about Ireland? It fit the formating better.--Eva ^db 06:32, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Much better Lozleader 08:38, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Good job Evadb! I have a few suggestions to offer

• Since heraldry is not a hot news topic, perhaps we could drop the News box :)
• We should have some method (and regular interval) for updating the selected article/picture/biography. See for example the Archive and Candidates links on Portal:Scouting. Monthly is probably an appropriate frequency, maybe we could update the selected items on the first of each month.
• I notice in the open tasks box you have links to a Heraldry Wikiproject. Do you plan to propose such a project? (I don't see any mention at Wikipedia:Wikiproject/List_of_proposed_projects) My feeling is that this would just create more administration, where the time would be better spent on the articles themselves. In that case I would suggest replacing contents of the Things you can do box with something like what's currently at User:Dr pda/Sandbox. We could also have a page (Portal:Heraldry/Todo_list perhaps) listing articles which need to be created, like the lists of Officers and Offices of Arms on your userpage.
• Finally, most (all?) of the links in the Wikimedia sister projects template at the bottom go to non-existing articles. I wonder if all these are necessary? (Though to edit we would have to copy the text of the Template:WikimediaForPortals, rather than using the Template itself). The Commons link in particular points to Commons:Heraldry which is an empty article, while Commons:Category:Heraldry has a number of images. If someone has time, maybe they could organise some of the images into an article (i.e. galleries), or otherwise just make Commons:Heraldry a redirect to Commons:Category:Heraldry (although this seems a bit of a hack).

Dr pda 21:49, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the great input, Dr pda. All of your thoughts seem very good to me. I'll plan on booting the "News" link. It was part of the basic template, so I left it on, but your comment is well founded. As for the Things you can do, I just followed the template of one of the featured portals. That explains the wikiproject bits. I think that your sandbox template is wonderful and think that the portal should use that. I'll plan on adding that information, as well. Keep up the great work.--Eva ^db 09:08, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

June Updating Plan

Good day, folks. The end of the month is close at hand. I think it would be good to start a list of possible candidates for the portal template subpages for the month of June. Changing things on the first of the month seems reasonable to me. Here is what I think might be nice:

Selected article

• Either Lord Lyon King of Arms or Court of the Lord Lyon (this would help balance out the English bias in this months feature

• How about the Canadian Heraldic Authority instead? Both the Lord Lyon and Lyon Court articles are a bit light on content, whereas the CHA article has been featured on the main page Dr pda 14:46, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

• Good point. That sounds like a good choice to me.--Eva ^db 15:10, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Selected picture

• Image:Sir Francis Grant, Lord Lyon King of Arms, H.R.H. .jpg (this is a great PD picture of Lord Lyon in action)

Selected biography

• Elias Ashmole (this was recently chosen as a featured article and will be put on the mainpage in early June. If we can beef up the heraldic content, it would be even better)

Did You Know?

• I've not had enough time to look around and see what tidbits can be used here. Suggestions welcome:

• Rodney Dennys left his career in the British intelligence service to become an officer of arms Dr pda 14:46, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

• The Ypotryll has the head of a boar, the body of a camel, the legs and hooves of a goat and the tail of a serpent -- Dave Boven 14:54, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

• During the Second World War the records of the College of Arms were stored in Thornbury Castle (pictured), home of Sir Algar Howard, Norroy and Ulster King of Arms Dr pda 22:31, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

It seems like the rest can stay as is indefinitely, but changes may be nice now and again to keep things fresh. Let me know what ya'll think of these things.--Eva ^db 09:06, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I've updated the Portal with the appropriate suggestions. I think it looks pretty good and ought to stay that way for a month or so. Well done.--Eva ^db 07:16, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Template Format

On my screen, the Quotes and the To Do List seem to have migrated from the right column to the bottom of the page. I'm not good enough at wikiformatting to put them back where they belong. Anyone else?--Eva ^db 07:16, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Fixed. There was a stray </div> tag at the end of the selected biography which was the culprit. Nice job on the update by the way. Dr pda 10:21, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

You Rock! Great work and thanks.--Eva ^db 10:45, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

July Updating Plan

We might as well start thinking about a July plan for updating right now. If you have suggestions for these categories, list them here for discussion.--Eva ^db 10:47, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Selected article

Ecclesiastical heraldry --Dr pda 23:48, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I was checking "what links here" and saw this. Any chance we could get this article up to WP:GOOD status? Gimmetrow 12:32, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

You're doing a great job so far, it's a well-written and well-referenced article. I'd hoped putting it as this month's selected article would encourage a few more people to have a look at it. Dr pda 14:45, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Selected picture

One of the following --Dr pda 23:48, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

• 
  Pursuivants at Garter Service
• 
  Heralds at Garter Service

Selected biography

Johannes Rietstap --Dr pda 23:48, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Did You Know?

...that the coat of arms of Greenland depicts a polar bear raising its left forepaw, breaking with the heraldic tradition of showing the right forepaw raised, because polar bears are left-handed? (appeared on the Main Page on June 17 2006) Dr pda 18:18, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

...that the horseman depicted on the Coat of arms of Moscow was not identified with Saint George until the 18th century? (appeared on the Main Page on June 25 2006) Dr pda 23:48, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

National Archives of South Africa

Various heraldry pages have links to www.national.archsrch.gov.za; these always (for me) lead to a page which begins "Existing session timed-out. Restarting." If that's a subscription service, it doesn't belong here. —Tamfang 18:20, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I get the same thing. What I suspect is happening is that an editor has searched the heraldry database of the Bureau of Heraldry (there's a link to it on the 'session timed out' page), and then copied the URL of the search result into the article. Unfortunately the URL is only valid for the current session, so when you or I later try to follow it it doesn't work. As far as I can see it's not a subscription service. Dr pda 14:45, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Naming no names, one editor has more than once cited a Google Image search frame rather than the resulting content; and I'm forever weeding links from List of heraldic charges that point to some site's default page. Does the ZA archive search likewise present its findings in a frame? In each of these cases the problem would go away if the finder were to use the right mouse-button to "Show only this frame" and then copy the URL. —Tamfang 23:03, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Updates & Suggestions

Hi all, I've updated the portal for August. I've done the last couple of updates now, since Evadb who set up the portal has left Wikipedia, but I don't want to be the only one keeping it alive. I've added links to suggestion pages for the selected article/biography/picture and did you know, so feel free to make suggestions for future updates, or better yet, update the portal yourself next time the first of the month rolls around! (monthly seems to be an appropriate frequency) Dr pda 23:51, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I made a template that could be used for selected articles and pictures: Template:SelectedHeraldry. Gimmetrow 00:34, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

That template is now incorportated into the WP:HV project template. Gimmetrow 05:54, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Who can describe something for me?

I am just wondering who can describe the City of Blacktown "coat of arms" to improve what is currently on the page? a link to the image on the local council website is in the article. TIA! --Garrie 01:29, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The heraldic description (blazon) can actually be found on the council website as well. In the navigation box click the citation link which is directly under the 'coat of arms' link. This page has the text of the letters patent granting the coat of arms. The blazon is towards the end:

The decription of the shield is Per chevron Sable and Or in chief two sprigs of Sunshine Wattle (Acacia discolor) and issuant in base the head of an Australian Aborigine Sable

The description of the crest (the device on top of the shield) is Upon a Helm with a Wreath Or and Sable A Kookaburra proper supporting with its dexter claw a Boomerang Gold

The description of the supporters (the figures on either side of the shield) is Dexter a large Grey Kangaroo and sinister a Chestnut Trotting Horse proper

--Dr pda 09:31, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Userbox

Hello, I made a userbox for us here, use it if you like it:

This user is interested in Heraldry

{{User:Merewyn/Userboxes/Heraldry}}

It contains the authentic coat of arms from Polish heraldry, called Przyjaciel (it means: "Friend"). My family was using it. I would like to ask only for help in putting this userbox to the list of Wikipedia userboxes if it is possible... Merewyn 13:54, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• Here is another

This user contributes to WikiCommons on the subject of Heraldry

{{User:Vanellaphantom04/Userboxes/heraldry}}

• Yet another:

This user loves studying Heraldry

{{User:Boven/heraldry}}

You can also add yourself to Category:Wikipedians interested in heraldry by adding this text:

[[Category:Wikipedians interested in heraldry|{{subst:PAGENAME}}]]

to your user page. --EncycloPetey 04:00, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

French-speaking blazon project

The French-speaking blazon project has been entirely revised, the creation of blazons is now vectorial. A start guide for newcomers has been created and many new charges, ordinaries and surrounding elements have enriched the already existing base, in order to give to the most what is necessary for a simplified creation of free blazons. Thus, don't hesitate to participate, you'll see it's easy and fun to do. What we particularly need is draftsmen for charges creating. See more details on the welcome page of the project. Amically, the French-speaking blazon project team.

WikiProject

The Heraldry and vexillology WikiProject has just been created. Inge 17:02, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

How do people feel about this new project "adopting" this portal? If so, should it be renamed and repurposed to include flags and all things vexillogical as well as the existing subject matter? An alterative route could be to have a Vexillogical portal instead. Thoughts? Objections? --Billpg 19:03, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

• I think it would be nice to have the project adopt the portal. I'd be happy if a separate vexillological portal was created, or if such material was merged here.--dave-- 12:18, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Allthoug we (the project participants) don't know how much work this portal involves and how much work the participants in the project are willing to put in yet, I am very much in favour of an adoption. A single portal for heraldry and vexillology might be less time consuming and the best option until we know which resources we have in the project and portal. Two portals might be desirable in the long run though. Inge 13:30, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict: I started writing this before the above response, which makes basically the same points)

I also think it would be good for the project to adopt the portal. As you can tell by the large number of responses (!) to this question manpower is an issue; since User:Evadb left I think it has more or less just been me and User:Boven who have done anything to maintain/update the portal (thanks for doing some of the September updates btw Dave). Having more people on board would help; also, having the portal associated with the project provides a way that articles created or improved as a result of the project can be showcased, as DYK/selected articles etc. Regarding the vexillological stuff, I would probably be inclined to merge it with the heraldry portal. A portal does require a certain level of effort and at least a few people, to keep it alive, and the number of people in the project is still relatively small. We could always split off the vexillology as a separate portal/sub-portal later on if the need arises. (The combined portal would also have a nice correspondence to the scope of the WikiProject). Dr pda 13:36, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

As per the consensus above and at WP:HV I have converted the Heraldry Portal to the Heraldry and Vexillology Portal. It is still at Portal:Heraldry (since I think each sub-page would have to be moved separately, which seems a lot of work, particularly if we want to split heraldry and vexillology again at some point in the future), but there is now a redirect at Portal:Heraldry and Vexillology. I don't have much vexillological expertise, so anyone who does, feel free to modify what I've added. --Dr pda 01:49, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Automation

The selected content should be automated here, eventually. I can think of two approaches. There might be a pool of selected articles, and one is chosen randomly when the page is loaded. Or each day of the month (or week of the year) might be assigned a selected article, which would then cycle through each month (or year). The first approach is scalable to any amount of selected content. The second is basically limited to a finite quantity, say 31 or 52 slots. To begin with, some of the slots would have the same content. Thoughts or other ideas? Gimmetrow 23:48, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

A third approach (similar to the second, but non-cyclic) is to queue up the Selected Content in advance, as is done on some other portals (e.g. Portal:New Zealand) and also for the featured article on the Main Page (i.e. with subpages like Portal:Heraldry and vexillology/Selected article/March 2007).

I think manually selecting the articles, as opposed to random selection from a pool, is a good thing as it allows the possiblity of featuring articles which have recently made FA or GA, which may be an added incentive to bring articles to such a standard. One of the problems at the moment (for any method of updating) is that there is not an overly large pool of high quality (i.e. GA and above) Heraldry and Vexillology articles, particularly biographies. I guess at some point in the future when there are hundreds of such articles (!) then random selection might be the way to go. Dr pda 00:30, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

If I were to program it, I would probably create a slot for each week of the year. If an article recently made FA or GA, it could be substituted in the next duplicated spot. There are 31 FA/A/GA articles together, right now -- plenty of space for future articles. An article for some future month is already queued up, too; wanted something other than another tricolor. Since there are so few biographies (and few candidates for improvement to GA), perhaps biographies should be merged to articles? Gimmetrow 00:49, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

*.svg flags

FYI - All flags with the *.svg images are not showing their flags, but the following link: [Image:Flag of ****.svg]. Please fix this ASAP Chris 14:34, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Could you be more specific as to when and where? I just saw three examples that worked fine. Valentinian ^{T / C} 22:05, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

• • Never mind. The flags were fixed by the time I checked back later that day and it was fine. Chris 20:55, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Commons Links

How does one format a commons tag for the bottom of this page. I've made a commons page for officers of arms at commons:Officers of arms. Thanks.--Eva ^bd 19:06, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

{{commons|Officers of arms}} should do the trick. Nice page. I didn't know we had a picture of a Danish herald. Valentinian ^{T / C} 19:09, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. That's the code that I thought to use, too. But it is a bit more complicated than that. See Portal:Heraldry/Wikimedia for the subpage. I didn't know about the Danish herald pic either, but found it on the Dutch page for herald. Don't ask me how it got there. :) Any other thoughts on formatting?--Eva ^bd 20:30, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I've tried fixing it WikiProject Flags on Commons. I just added ":Commons" twice. (1x to go to Wikimedia Commons and 1x to get to Commons' Commonsspace (if such a word even exists. This sentence sounded like complete rubbish.) :) Valentinian ^{T / C} 22:57, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Selected flag

I think we should have a selected flag and selected coat of arms.Bewareofdog 21:54, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

It would be great if we could, but we don't have enough articles to select from. A reasonable attempt is being made to alternate them. Gimmetrow 23:03, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Can't we just pick a regualar flag and put it in the Selected flag section if someone ever makes one?Bewareofdog 20:37, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Image

I think we should replace this image with this oneBewareofdog 01:05, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Lauffen am Neckar

Could someone pse tidy my description of the coat of arms of the above German town? The entry in en/Wiki (which I have just finished translating from de/Wiki) has produced a note from an assessor to the effect that expert help is required. Mikeo1938 21:51, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Subportal of ?

This is currently subportal of History portal. Heraldry has never been as vibrant as now. At least on global scene. Better suited could be society, culture or arts perhaps. Comments? Junior Woodchuck 15:02, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Osmond Barnes

Prompted by Eva, who uploaded a picture of him in a tabard, I've started a new article for Osmond Barnes (1834-1930), a Chief Herald of India. Apart from Giler's new Delhi Herald Extraordinary article, we don't seem to have anything yet on heralds in the Indian Empire, and I can't find much on Barnes's title of Chief Herald. Does anyone have any thoughts? Xn4 15:59, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

List of Arms Needed?

I don't suppose there is a list anywhere of arms that we have descriptions of (from a verified source) for which we need a blazon? I'm happy to create some illustrations, if anyone has some tasks. 125.238.19.73 (talk) 09:13, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Timeline of National Flags & Eagle Heraldry

Would the Timeline of national flags article and/or the Eagle (heraldry) article be a "cousin" to this portal or belong elsewhere?

Twillisjr (talk) 20:31, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Both are tagged by WP:HV. Gimmetoo (talk) 21:39, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Is this flag listed ?

Please, is this flag listed ? I did not find it in your (numerous) flag pages... I don't know what it is... Blump007 (talk) 06:00, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
File:Flag-question-2.jpg
I now see it's in Mongolia

List of oldest heraldry

Feel free to contribute to List of oldest heraldry. Chicbyaccident (talk) 13:31, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Coat of arms of Wikipedia

Further information: Talk:Wikipedia_logo § Coat_of_arms_of_Wikipedia.3F

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