File talk:Russian Federation (orthographic projection) - Crimea disputed.svg

What with Amur? Why is there a sea?

Crimea

Why should Crimea be coloured at all? It is not recognized as Russian territory by anyone except Russia. South Ossetia, Abkhazia and Transistria are not coloured on this map either. Consistency is required at bare minimum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.161.70.159 (talk) 15:37, 20 March 2014 (UTC) Crimea should be painted in dark green in my honest opinion. (I dunna how sign, so: Mach1988, March, 20th, 2014). — Preceding undated comment added 15:07, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

I suggest bright red.--Pirags (talk) 05:58, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

In fact, Russia has full control over the territory of Crimea. Therefore, Crimea should be painted in a dark green color. (On the map of Ukraine Crimea should be painted in light green. Reason: Ukraine is no longer able to control territory. Ukraine is now only contested Crimea). Let's maps reflect reality and not what dictate the U.S. and its allies.Сергей 287 (talk) 06:30, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Specialists of the National Geographic Society U.S. plans to designate Crimea on their maps as part of Russia. Reasonable solution, unlike some solutions administrators of Wikipedia. Сергей 287 (talk) 07:13, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

In fact, Crimea still is internationally disputed territory therefore it's color on the map of the Russian Federation should be not similar, but remarkably different.--Pirags (talk) 10:23, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Crimea it is not an internationally disputed territory, since there is not a dispute or a litigation before the International Court of Justice, nor there is an arbitration; it is a Russian formally annexed land, claimed by Ukraine. A similar discussion has been taken on a Wikimedia page: only effectiveness give substance to international law. There are some Indian-held territories claimed by China and vice-versa, but these territories are dark green on Indian maps and vice-versa. Therefore on Russia maps Crimea should painted in dark green, while on Ukraine maps it should be painted in light green: Russia controls Crimea, while Ukraine claims it.--Mach1988 (talk) 18:30, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Agree. Crimea should not be colored, it is not part of Russia. The world consensus is that Russian action is illegal, and Crimea is part of Ukraine. Wikipedia should reflect that consensus. XeroxKleenex (talk) 16:36, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

-paint crimea dark green its russian now--Crossswords (talk) 18:58, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Light green is appropriate and neutral. Nobody recognized Crimea as Russian territory except Russia, in no way should it be dark green. Nagorno-Karabakh in Azeribaijan isn't painted for Armenia despite them controlling and claiming it. And if anyone wants to accuse of a double standard, Kosovo is light green for Serbia...when a majority of the world's countries recognize it as an independent state.--FourthLineGoon (talk) 18:04, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Exactly because Kosovo is light green on Serbia maps, Crimea should be light green for Ukraine maps, and not on Russia ones: on Kosovo maps the green is dark, and it is recognized by only 23 out 28 Member States of the European Union and by 85 other States, which do not make nor an overwhelming majority, nor (and this issue is the most important) a necessary prerequisite for the effectiveness of the annexation. Ukraine claims Crimea just as Serbia considers Kosovo as part of its territory, but nor Ukraine nor Serbia control lands which claim as their own, while Kosovo claims-and-controls its own territory (and it is painted dark green in Kosovo maps) as well as Russia claims and controls its territory, which includes also the Crimean Peninsula.--Mach1988 (talk) 22:31, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

False, 107 UN member states recognize Kosovo as an independent nation... http://kosovothanksyou.com/ That's an absolute majority, just like the absolute majority of the world's countries (every single other country) doesn't recognize Russian-occupied Ukrainian territory. --FourthLineGoon (talk) 00:20, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

23 EU + 85 Non-EU = 108. :D Needless to say, international recognition says nothing. Taiwan is an absolutely independent country while having only 22 countries diplomatically recognizing it. On the other hand, Taiwan claims the entire mainland China and it says that Mongolia is not independent. But dark green there is only in the Taiwan island and other archipelagos actually controlled by Taiwan. A similar discourse could be held for what regards North Korea. Again, I do not see the point of recalling the "international community consensus", just as it is a constitutive element of annexations. The I.C. recognition is absolutely not such a constitutive requisite, differently from internal legal order of the annexing country as well as the effectiveness of its control over annexed territory. Now, let's see the facts: Russia has lawfully (according its internal legal system, I do not support one side of another) annexed a territory, and nobody can reasonably object to the fact that Russian Federation actually controls the Crimean Peninsula. Therefore on Russia maps the Crimean Peninsula should painted dark green. On the contrary, on Ukrainian maps the Crimean Peninsula should be painted in light green: this because according the official provisions of Ukrainian State Crimea has not been lawfully annexed to Russia, but certainly the Ukrainian government does not control the Crimean Peninsula.--Mach1988 (talk) 00:40, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

-japan has the kuril islands light green while russia has them dark green--Crossswords (talk) 00:53, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Those are internationally recognized as part of Russia except by Japan... Why wouldn't those be dark green and Crimea not? --FourthLineGoon (talk) 02:41, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Because Russia has lawfully (according its internal order) annexed both Kuril Islands and Crimea. The international recognition counts nothing for the effectiveness of the annexation. So both Kuril Islands and Crimea should be dark green on Russia maps and light green, respectively, on Japan and Ukraine maps.--Mach1988 (talk) 09:26, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Does it mean that you are supporter of the lawful Anschluss of Austria and Sudetenland in 1938? Do you remember the consequences?--Pirags (talk) 06:01, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

I'm not a supporter nor an opponent of any territorial change, I am discussing about a colour on a map and the fact whether Russia is like Nazi Germany or not is not my business and does not interest me. On Wikipedia we should represent the reality and not what we would see. From an international law-based point of view (let's put apart politically oriented points of view), nowadays and currently Crimea is Russia because Russia controls the peninsula and Russia has lawfully incorporated it according Russian legal order.--Mach1988 (talk) 10:54, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

World recognized Austria annexation...but (most importantly Ukraine) does not recognize the illegal annexation of Crimea...light green is appropriate, it is claimed territory of two nations that Russia invaded and administers. Not sure what Russia's "laws" have to do with a Wikipedia map...--FourthLineGoon (talk) 19:27, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

The fact that Ukraine does not recognize Russian annexation has little or no importance. Light green is used when a nation claims but does not control a territory, while dark green is used when a country claims and administers the territory. Annexation is something which has to do only with laws of conquering country and the effectiveness of the control which is exercised. Colouring Crimea in dark green is not like we appreciate, support, condemn or oppose this change in any way, but we have to represent the reality. The international community recognition is secondary: North Korea is a State on its own, although it is not recognized by a overwhelming majority of the international community because it effectively controls its own territory and has a peculiar legal order; the same is for Crimea, which is a Russian land according both the de facto situation and the legal order of the annexing country. As we know, former German territories annexed by Poland were not recognized as Polish even by the German Democratic Republic until late '40s/early '50s, but these lands effectively were Polish (and still are, but this is another topic) because they were lawfully annexed (again, not according a justice principle, but according to Polish laws of that time) and they were effectively controlled by Polish government.--Mach1988 (talk) 22:24, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Every country on the globe recognizes North Korea except Japan and South Korea....You don't know what you're talking about.--FourthLineGoon (talk) 18:11, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

- seriously people, putin visited crimea today and hold a military parade on the peninsula what more proof do you need that russia controls it? Crimea is russia now, get that in your head--Crossswords (talk) 14:09, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

That's like saying that Western Sahara is Morocco or Kuwait was Iraq in 1991. Nobody's "getting anything in their head." The current maps are perfectly fine.--FourthLineGoon (talk) 20:34, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Disputed territory, consistancy

If crimea is to be coloured light green, than the two southern kuril islands big enough to be seen on the map must be coloured the same as well as they are disputed with japan.XavierGreen (talk) 21:23, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

-same could be said about the senkaku islands on japans map--Crossswords (talk) 01:25, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Not at all, nobody else recognizes Japan's claim to the Southern Kuril islands (isn't it 3 or 4, not 2 anyway?) Meanwhile, Senkaku is the opposite situation. Hardly an issue.--FourthLineGoon (talk) 18:11, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

The southern Kuril island aren't shown as green or dark green, they need to be fixed. --WhyHellWhy (talk) 16:58, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, those should be dark green or at least the light green like on Japan's map. Every world source you can find outside of Japan says that Japan lost those after World War II, and global sources are important, same reason why Crimea shouldn't be painted dark green here (or on Ukraine's map anymore.)--FourthLineGoon (talk) 23:14, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

I think we're going to need a lot more light green. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.204.47.22 (talk) 01:16, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Double standards

Disputed area between China and India or India and Pakistan and so on ( I can enumerate more because this is common practice on Wikipedia) are painted in dark green on country which controlling this area even if anyone except this country claimed this and light green on country which have only claims. Why only Russia Federation map is different ? Can anyone show me the same practice anywhere on Wikipedia except Russian Federation map  ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.1.214.43 (talk) 21:51, 23 May 2014 (UTC)