Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Mortal Kombat/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

This archive covers all discussion from February 2006 (when the project was created) through June 2006.

New Members

New members may introduce themselves here.

• Hey People! I'm dekabreak. I hope I help!

• Aloha!! DarkRyder80 here reporting for duty!!

• Hey guys, Umbric Man here-I'm someone who contributed to some points on the MK Plot Faq under my given name o' Andrew Wilgus. Figured I'd finally sign up and help, I helped made the Final Fight articles into what they are today if you wanna look at some of my work.

• Hey guys, NinjaFromHell here to help keep the MK articles factual.

• PhilShady here. Mine services are at thine disposal.

• The Haunted Angel here, glad to help out ^_^

• Yo. Minty Fresh Death here, keeping it canon. :D Hope I can be of assistance.

Announcements/Tasks/Remarks/Questions

Some random questions

I've sort of been going on a hap-hazard editing spree through random MK articles and have run into some style/consistency issues. I figure this might be a good place to ask:

1. Should MK terms such as 'fatality' be capitalized? For example, if I were to say "This character has several fatalities", would it be necessary to capitalize the 'f'? When not used as an actual proper name of a fatality (i.e. something like Scorpion's "Toasty Fatality"), I occasionally see the word 'fatality' being capitalized. Is it okay to leave it this way or should I remove any capitalizations I see from now on?

2. What should be the proper way to write the game names for the "Appearances" line in character info boxes? For example, I sometimes see 'Mortal Kombat: Armageddon' written as 'MK: Armageddon', or 'MK: A', or even 'MKA'. I would think that this would be a length issue since something like 'Mortal Kombat: Armageddon' can take up two lines, but I see all kinds of variations on game names appearing.

3. This is rather minor, but when/how should abbreviations of the MK game titles be used in articles? For example, if I were using the name 'Mortal Kombat Trilogy' frequently, should I switch to 'MK Trilogy' or 'MKT' at all? Would simply saying 'Trilogy' be specific enough in context? I'm not sure what would be the best way to do this.

4. Super ultra minor here, but should there always be a space after the colon when writing a title like 'MK: Armageddon' or 'MK: Conquest'? (Instead of 'MK:Armageddon' and 'MK:Conquest', respectively)

Any help is appreciated. MarphyBlack 00:48, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

These are the conventions I've been using:

• 1. I don't capitalize fatality, but it can be argued either way - my gut instinct is just to go with the uncapitalized version, but make sure the first occurance is wikilinked to Fatality (Mortal Kombat).
• 2. I've been trying to keep the length of each line in the infobox to one line (obviously there are cases where this is impossible), so after the first Mortal Kombat, the other places where Mortal Kombat appear can be replaced by MK, since the acronym is obvious. On a related note, for consistency's sake I use MKII instead of MK2 (since the former is technically the correct title).
• 3. Yes, after the first mention of that game in the article (excluding the infobox - I treat that separately). I also use colons where it appears in the title; ie, Mortal Kombat: Deception becomes MK:D, whereas Mortal Kombat Advance becomes MKA. Basically, use the full title with the same frequency as wikilinks - not for most occurances beyond the first, unless it hasn't been mentioned in some time (ie, at the beginning and then the end of the article).
• 4. Yes.

Virogtheconq 16:57, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Epic Battles

I'd like to start an article based on Score Entertainment's Epic Battles card game (in which MK plays a huge part of), since I noticed there's already an article for the later-released Universal Fighting System by Sabertooth Games. However, I'm not terribly knowledgable about said topic (I only have 1 MK Round 1 deck, 1 Street Fighter booster, and 2 Street Fighter promos, and have never played). So, is there an expert in the game here that could collaberate with me and help write said article? The S 02:34, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Chameleon is in Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 (Sort of)

[1] A big surprise if you ask me. I didn't even know they planned on having him in there! The S 04:21, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Nice find. NinjaFromHell 07:49, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Cool! He's my favourite character. I told everybody on IGN about it. Good find! :D SilentRage 01:07, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Can you link to this topic so I can see it? :D I'd like to see what others think. The S 02:03, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry it took so long to respond. http://boards.ign.com/Message.aspx?topic=119754209&brd=6027&replies=10 SilentRage 00:21, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Heh, no problem. I've also seen a similar topic from one of our own Wikiproject members (sorry, but I forgot who!) on another board. My popularity from the late '90's is slowly returning! Mwa ha ha ha! The S 02:20, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Adding character in-game appearance section

It seems like a lot of character trivia deals with how they appear/perform in-game. Since the trivia sections in general need to be trimmed, I was thinking perhaps it would be best to write a small section describing that - the moves/fatalities could be incorporated as subsections as well. Opinions?Virogtheconq 15:08, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Sierra and Terra

I have listed the Sierra (Mortal Kombat) and Terra (Mortal Kombat) for deletion because neither of the two are real characters. They do however appear to be Spectacular Sierra-Terra12Sonya's fan characters. NinjaFromHell 13:06, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, these characters were posted as being in Armageddon on the website "Fighter's Generation", but they were never confirmed (nor even mentioned outside of that site by any authorative source). Whether or not they are some fan's characters, I'm not certain (the user may have taken their name from the supposed characters instead of vice versa). The S 18:22, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Fighter's Generation is not a reliable source for information on Mortal Kombat (the webmaster hates it so he'd put anything up there to get it out of the way). The storyline on Fighter's Generation is a fan-made one that was seen on MKO and other Mortal Kombat fansites. NinjaFromHell 05:12, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Did you purposely paraphrase me from the MK Armageddon Talk Page, or was that unintentional? The S 02:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

It was unintentional, I didn't even realise you had said something like that on the MK Armageddon Talk Page. NinjaFromHell 07:38, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Heh. Spooky.... The S 18:21, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

The End of Apep?

I recently looked over the Minor Mortal Kombat characters article, and noticed my sole major contribution, Apep, is completely gone! Surely he deserves as much, if not more, recognition than one-liners such as "Bo" (what's a man who hurls balls of energy need with a bodyguard anyway)? The S 02:53, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't remember exactly when he was removed, but it was a long time ago - I think it might have been an anon editor, but I don't remember. Feel free to put it back in if you like. Virogtheconq 03:01, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Apep's entry should be restored. NinjaFromHell 13:36, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I have done so. I just want to clear that with at least one person, as I didn't know if there was actually a logical reason why he was removed. The S 18:44, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Making MK articles exclusive to us

I've noticed that alot of people are coming in and editing these articles and adding in incorrect information and false rumours. It's upsetting alot of people that I talk to over the internet (specifically IGN), and also seems to be deminishing Wikipedia's credibility as a viable information source. Is there any way we can make the MK articles only editable by us?SilentRage 01:50, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Nope. Wikipedia is completely open, which is its beauty and curse. Now, if you were to make a separate MK wiki, that would be a different question. Virogtheconq 02:02, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Then should we start one over at Wikia? SilentRage 02:23, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

You can protect an article from editing if it's getting vandalized repeatedly, but I'm not sure how.

btw...when did we decide Chameleon was a major MK character? Shadaloo 20:52, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

There are lists of vandalised pages, so it wouldn't be too difficult to find where they are (I haven't bothered to look them up yet) and ask for protection. However, I really doubt it would be granted - there's a difference between egregious vandalism and fanboys/girls spreading false rumors and/or incorrect info.

As far as Chameleon goes, it was an anonymous editor. I didn't bother to revert it since it doesn't really matter to me. Virogtheconq 20:57, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't like to force this into conversation, but Anipedia is dedicated solely to anime, manga, and video games. If you want a bit more privacy when creating articles, you have it, as one must register to create and edit articles. The S 18:44, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Nothing Substantual, just amusing

Check this out There is a character in the DC Comics Vs. System named Fatality, whose subtitle is "Flawless Victory". Furthermore, the quote says "Finish Him!" The S 03:10, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Cool. Maybe you might want to add that trivia into here: Fatality (comics). I think that's the same person. I couldn't see any images on that page you linked to for some add reason. SilentRage 01:12, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Done and done. The S 02:54, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Character Box Species

I noticed that we are using the term "race" instead of "species". This is incorrect because race is a sub-division of species. Example: Lui Kang's species is Human, but his race is Asian. It doesn't make sence to say that his race is "Human". SilentRage 11:24, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

You know, I never realized that... it makes sense to change it, though. We want to be correct about this kind of stuff. But that's a lot of articles to edit.... The S 03:06, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, just put it on the To-Do list and let people whack away at it as they remember.Virogtheconq 03:44, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll get to work on that now. SilentRage 23:32, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

It's all done. All I had to do was edit the character box template. When you edit a person's species it will still be "race=" for the code, but will display as "Species", in the actual article. This is easier because we don't have to edit anybody's profile to make any changes. SilentRage 23:47, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

That's cool. Bravo, SilentRage, bravo. The S 03:05, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

The trivia section on a number of characters (*cough*Scorpion*cough) is way too long - generally that section should be limited to just a few important tidbits that really don't fit in anywhere else in the article. I can start to go through them and removing/integrating the more superfluous ones, but I just thought I'd give everyone a heads-up first and see if anyone wanted to help out.

Those Gosh-Darn Fatality names

OK. So, when this whole thing first started out, one of the things we agreed on doing was eliminating non-canon material. A huge problem stil remains, addressed above. I say since most problems in the character articles have been addressed, this is the next major issue we should focus on, removing those fan-made names and such. I propose that we agree on a format for the Fatalities and Finishers. Perhaps a template is called for? Shadaloo 23:26, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, I can't really think of a good way to organize them. Conceivably we could organize them by game and just use Fatality 1/2/etc., but since some span multiple games, that might not be a good idea. Virogtheconq 14:41, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Some of them aren't fan-terms because they are listed as such in the instruction booklets. SilentRage 19:41, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Which games? I don't recall a single manual giving fatality names. The only time I've ever seen them given was Shaolin Monks, in-game. Shadaloo 04:32, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I distinctly remember reading the manual for the PC version of Mortal Kombat, where it had names for the character's fatalities (though it told you to work them out for yourself). Minty Fresh Death 15:06, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

List of terms used in Mortal Kombat

I was writing up a page about the term "Flawless Victory" and realised how small it is. So I'm thinking of making a whole page with all of the terms and phrases used in MK. Is that a good idea? SilentRage 10:39, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea. It'd allow us to streamline some parts of the articles that deal with gameplay mechanics (such as Easter eggs, New to the series, etc.). I'm just going to throw out an arbitrary number and say we need at least five terms to justify writing an article, though. Virogtheconq 15:05, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Maybe we should merge "Fatality", and others such as "Animality" and "Brutality" into it? Also, perhaps hoaxed and rumored characters (Nimbus Terrafaux, for example) could be put into a seperate article, since they seem to have enough staying power to stick around on Wikipedia.... The S 18:06, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

On second thought, Lists of terms are being deleted like crazy around here (List of fighting game terms is a prime example). Not to toot my own horn, but perhaps a list of MK terms would be more at home at Anipeda? The S 16:10, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Tartaka vs. Tarkatan

Is there an official source for which term is the proper singular term? I know in Shaolin Monks they're referred to as Tarkata singularly, but previous games also refer to them as "Tarkatan" singularly. Virogtheconq 18:53, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

If I'm not mistaken (but I could be), Tarkata refers to the people, and Tarkatan refers to something of the people (for example, you could say the Tarkata attacked Sub-Zero, or that they were Tarkatan warriors, or the Tarkatan horde). I'll have to look through Deception again to see if I'm right. The S 19:22, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Nah, it turns out it's another example of Midway not being able to make up their minds....The S 02:48, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Does this need to remain?

I've been looking around and I've stumbled across this. Now, aside from the fact I never like the word "mode" being stuck on the end of things, does it even need to stay? In its current form, it's vastly underdeveloped and hasn't been properly fleshed out since its creation. The next problem is the fact much of it seems to be "This is wrong and here's why" or "The player can do this unimportant sidequest". Wikipedia isn't GameFAQs so that plainly needs to go.

I've actually started re-writing it (in Notepad, I've obviously not saved any changes), but I'd rather ask you guys for your opinion first before I change anything. I guess the main options are delete it or allow the expansion/alteration I have planned and then see if that needs to stay (I'd not be surprised to see it go).

Now, while I don't think Wikipedia needs to provide rundowns of every level of every game (GFAQs does that just fine), I do think that a page like this could serve a purpose. Documenting Shujinko's journey on his page would make it unnecessarily long, but it's something that is crucial to the MK plot. On the other hand, Wikipedia isn't necessarily the place for long pieces of prose documenting a story.

Thoughts? --L T Dangerous 16:48, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. I'll throw up a Merge tag to the Deception page, just to be safe, but most of what's in there really isn't encyclopedic.Virogtheconq 18:10, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

• Agreed. Either merge or delete. The S 01:59, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

• Shujinko's article should cover the important aspects of Konquest, so be-gone with it, I say. Goroliath

I'm still alive!

Hey, guys, I'm still here, just in case anyone was wondering. I'm off from Uni for a month so hopefully I'll be able to work on those Conquest wikis. --L T Dangerous 10:24, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

No worries, school comes first. I've barely been here the past two weeks or so, but mid-terms are crazy like that. And it seems someone beat me to MK comic article creation...in either case, I'll be contributing again soon. Shadaloo 04:49, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Argument of monumental proportions

There seems to be an individual on the Mortal Kombat: Armageddon talk page who is using an enormous amount of data and such that has nothing to do with the topic at hand to "prove" that there is no possible way that Armageddon could ever be released on the Gamecube. Somebody needs to take a look at that conversation.... The S 03:52, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

MK pages for deletion

1. Is a new section here okay, or should roll call stay on top?
2. Sierra (Mortal Kombat) and Terra (Mortal Kombat) need to go. I've never started a deletion process.... anybody? dfg 05:36, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

• I've done it once or twice before - other than a few speedy noms, I nominated chosen warrior a few months back because it was utterly useless (though I think it ended up as a redirect IIRC). I haven't been following the Armageddon news at all, so I'm probably not the best candidate for nominating the Sierra/Terra articles. The process is pretty simple: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion#How to list pages for deletion. Virogtheconq 05:59, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

3. I'm in favor of deleting the Hero (Mortal Kombat) article, for the reasons I've listed in the Talk:Minor Mortal Kombat characters#Hero Merger section. I also think Warrior shrine and Soulnado need to be merged with some other page, though I'm not sure what. Virogtheconq 05:59, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Who exactly would create blank (or nearly blank) articles based on "characters" listed on a fansite? The S 03:59, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree in deleting Hero (Mortal Kombat) and I would like to include Inferno Scorpion, I believe it should be a bullet under Scorpion's page. -Kombat Krave 01:45, 1 May 2006

Character statistics

A lot of (IMO useless) edits seem to focus on the age/height/weight of the different characters - I'm wondering, if these categories were removed from the infobox if that'd cut down on the number of random edits these pages seem to get, which are frankly a waste of Wikipedia resources and my time for reading them when they show up on my watchlist. Plus, is there any canon source for any of that info? Virogtheconq 01:30, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance had ages, heights and weights listed for the majority of its cast, as did MKI, but as far as I'm aware no other game did. Shadaloo 05:04, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

• I wasn't aware MKI did, but if MKDA has them, then I suppose they can stay. The number of constant edits to those fields just irks me. =O) Virogtheconq 05:20, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

• MK I did. MKDA has them as well. Hopefully MKA will have them too...I'm going to update all the stats straight from the games, and the MK1 Collector's Edition comic book. The characters that don't have stats...I'm going to clear the stats from, but leave the column as a place holder, so that if MKA has all the heights and weights, we can just punch them in.

Canon or Non-Canon for Deadly Alliance Endings

I really like how the endings are listed for the Deadly Alliance page. Do you think we should put "canon" or "non-canon" on the entries? It might be kind of confusing for someone to read about the Deadly Alliance being defeated in some endings and victorious in others. Dalton Imperial 06:42, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Look below at [Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mortal_Kombat#Character_Bios_and_Endings this section]. If they are going to be included (personally, I don't think they should), it would be better to make a new entry, or insert them in the respective character pages. dfg 22:21, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't think they should. I'm starting to wonder if a page devoted to non-canon MK storyline sections and endings is in order... Shadaloo 05:04, 15 March 2006 (UTC) Well...uh...i went and added canon/non-canon/unknown if canon to the Deadly Alliance endings Jordan567 14:16, 16 September 2006

Outerworld Investigation Agency

The Outer World Investigation Agency page has some inconsistencies. Is the group the Outer World Investigation Agency or the Outerworld Investigation Agency? A Google search seems to support the one word version but I wanted to check with you. Also, is it abbreviated OIA or OWIA? On a story issue, has the Special Forces done anything independently of the OIA/OWIA since the OIA/OWIA was formed, or has the OIA/OWIA "replaced" the Special Forces since all of the playable characters in the Special Forces joined the OIA/OWIA? Dalton Imperial 17:47, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

I was playing MK:DA last night, and in someone's ending (Jax or Sonya?) it's spelled as one word: Outerworld. I'll double check later, but leave it to someone else to consistent-ize the main entry. dfg 16:50, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

• In Jax and Sonya's MK3 endings, it's two words. Virogtheconq 17:00, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Damn. Just curious, but what sources are we supposed to refer to for canon material? Is there an official Boon website or something? dfg 17:40, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Great. I'm for going with the more recent reference, which (unless Deception mentions it) would be Deadly Alliance's one word version. Most other pages seem to have the one word version, but the main entry has the two word version. If I don't hear any objections over the weekend, I will standardize it to Outerworld Investigation Agency (abbreviation OIA). We can always put it back later. Dalton Imperial 06:42, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

In that case, you should probably move the Outer World Investigation Agency article to Outerworld Investigation Agency and make the former a redirect to the latter, just in case we miss a few. As far as an official canon source, I don't really know of any - all of the material I know has been gleaned from various FAQs. I suppose someone could email Vogel and ask =O) Virogtheconq 08:45, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Nitpick: MK mods for other games

In the Mortal Kombat (series) page, there's an entry on MK mods for other games:
Mortal Kombat has also been the focus of several extremely popular game modifications, including hacks to the original Mortal Kombat PC games (MK2: Kintaro's Vulgar Version), and the integration of console artwork and audio into other game engines, including but not limited to the original Quake and Unreal engines (Mortal Kombat Quake TC).
I've Googled these, and the only evidence I can find of Kintaro's Vulgar Version is an entry in a ton of other gaming sites (which, incidentally, feature the exact same text as above, leading me to think it's vandalism of sorts) - same for the MK Quake TC. Has anyone here ever heard of these outside of the above entry? Otherwise I'm just going to remove it. Virogtheconq 06:02, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

The Quake mod has been circled around online for about a decade or so. I believe an old issue of Gamepro had a story on it once. If I can dig up some conclusive evidence to present, I will do so. The S 03:16, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

After a little more thorough Googlewhacking, I've found some evidence of the Quake TC, so I think I'll let it pass for now (though the sites are no longer active, so it seems like it's not very useful to mention it). And after looking at a number of the sites with the same text as what's featured here, I think they actually all lifted the text straight from the Wikipedia, since other text on the pages is similar to older incarnations of the MK page, so perhaps Kintaro's Vulgar Version did exist at some point. However, since I can't find any evidence that it did exist outside of this page, I think I'll remove that bit. Virogtheconq 04:33, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Are you guys talking about this?: http://public.www.planetmirror.com/pub/idgames2/total_conversions/mortal_kombat/?fl= SilentRage 18:33, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I think there was a Wolfenstein 3D mod... I must look for it... --OrtonFan2006 11:48, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Is MK Shaolin Monks considered canon or non-canon?

I vote no. the game is a spin-off but unlinke MKMS or MKSF, this game tries-and fails-to replace existing info. It's more like the movies, a parallel story arc. I feel as though it should be metioned as a spin-off but its story should stay out of the main pages.

Example: Kung Lao never went to the MK tournament. Asmodeus 20:25, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I seem to remember Ed Boon saying it was in an interview... I'll look for it to confirm. The S 03:41, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure if even Boon's word is valid - I don't know a single MK story buff who considers it canon. It's like it provides interesting information about the MK world, but the whole storyline is a joke. Shadaloo 04:06, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Maybe we should just think of it as a what-if scenario/alternate universe treatment of the MKII story. Since MKII is what, ten years old, it seems likely that whoever wrote the story (Boon? Vogel?) would like to go back and change a few things - just look at George Lucas *cough*. As far as mentioning it in the pages, at the very least a character's involvement in the Shaolin Monks storyline should be mentioned in their Trivia section if it's not in their bio section. Virogtheconq 05:29, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

The story was out sourced to a comic book writer named Jim Krueger, the MK team (vogel) didn't write it. I'm down for it being mentioned in the triva section a long with movie info, but it should not be intergrated into the main story. Asmodeus 08:45, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

If Armageddon directly references events that only took place in Shaolin Monks, would that make SM canon? I think Shaolin Monks is Midway's way of retconning some things to fit better in later games in the series. The S 19:06, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Could be. If that's the case, then the SM monks info should be included in the storyline sections (though the "old" storyline should also be left in, with a retcon disclaimer). Virogtheconq

Ok, so let's hang on until Armageddon to be certain. If that comes and there's no info pertaining to SM, we add the info to Trivia. Shadaloo 12:56, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I think Kung Lao entered the Tournament as a last entrant, and by then, the big chaos battle had started. That's my theory. --OrtonFan2006 11:47, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Dragon Logo

Does anyone have a good image of the MK dragon logo that they could upload? I was thinking that would make a good header image for the Mortal Kombat (series) article, and could probably be used in some other places as well. Virogtheconq 01:45, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Use the Logo from the new MK armageddon site.Asmodeus 20:25, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, that's actually a really crappy picture to use for someone unfamiliar with the MK series (the target audience of this article), since the dragon is barely visible. Virogtheconq

Would either of these be helpful? http://www.rfgeneration.com/yabbattach/Mortal_Kombat_The_Album_EDIT_1.JPG http://www.rfgeneration.com/yabbattach/Mortal_Kombat_The_Album_EDIT_2.JPG I would have uploaded them here but I am still learning the ropes. So instead I uploaded them to the website I work at. Izret101

• I think the second one works rather well. What source are they from? We've been losing images from a lot of the articles since they weren't credited properly. Virogtheconq 05:50, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Honestly I couldn't tell you with 100% accuracy where I originally got the image from. It was the Mortal Kombat: The Album cover art, I just edited out "The Album". I could say though I am 99% sure i got it from eBay at some point so it is probably was copywrighted by Muze. Izret101 15:42, 10 March 2006

I was actually considering throwing a Dragon Logo into that article before spotting this topic, wasn't sure whether or not it would be welcomed, though. Anyway, here's another option. I figure it'd be suited since it matches the smaller versions I edited into the WikiProject box on discussion pages. No Source URL, though... http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4444/11gc.png Here's what I thought we could do with it on the page itself... http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/5056/17ln.png Goroliath

• Looks good, though I think it dominates the page a bit much - but we can also adjust the size later. Go ahead and upload it if you want, perhaps we can find a way to justify it if you're sure it came from a website somewhere. Virogtheconq 22:36, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Condensing articles

I really think several stand-alone MK entries should be condensed into smaller units, rather than expanding them and creating categories for them. I came across the Warrior Shrine article and can't think of a reason why it should exist on its own (see also: more than half of the contents of Category:Realms_of_Mortal_Kombat). Instead, maybe an article that covers all arenas/backgrounds/stages, or maybe even a larger entry such as Mortal Kombat locations that encompasses all the existing realms entries, with individual entries reserved for the ones where there's a lot of info, like Outworld.
Also, Kori powers should not have its own entry, and should just be part of the Cryomancers article. I'm probably going to merge these later tonight. dfg 19:19, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm thinking every entry in the category Category:MK_Minor_Characters should be moved into the entry Minor Mortal Kombat characters, and redirected. Someone give me a reasonable... reason why not. dfg 22:21, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree - the one problem is that some of the minor characters (Great Kung Lao/Siro/Taja, for instance) have a lot more information about them than others (granted, it's not very comprehensible information). I'd suggest adding another section for unique movie/TV show characters to the template, but it's big enough already - I'm not really sure what a good solution would be. But for all the minor characters from the games, certainly. Virogtheconq 22:36, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Good point. Maybe instead of adding the Conquest characters to the minor character entry, they could all be added to a new, "List of MK:Conquest characters" entry. The series template could just have a Conquest link added to it. dfg 16:22, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

MK: Unchained

User:ContagiousTruth created a new article today: Mortal Kombat: Unchained. It got tagged for deletion quick. I know nothing about the supposed game, and can't do any real research into it right now. The guy seems to be a regular user but didn't source/reference anything. What to do? dfg 17:03, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

ContagiousTruth: Hey guys. I probably shouldn't have submitted it without completing the article. I went to bed before finishing references, etc. If you want the proof of existence, the links you need are from IGN, Kamidogu, and MKOutworld. The latter two are fansites, but are reliable and are listed as external links on other MK WikiPages. I have now added them to the page. I don't know how to insert images, so if someone could give me a hand (using the IGN images) I'd appreciate it...

Minor Mortal Kombat characters

Since its creation, this article has been one of the most rapidly growing articles of all of the MK articles. The articles needs a slight reorganization of some of the pictures. And, should the list continue to grow, the Table of Contents may need to be compacted, and I have been expirementing that. Another idea that is fairly simple is that, when a character is added, a seperate redirect page should be created to direct people to the article.

Redirect pages are simple, and one should be created for each of the characters on the list that don't already have one. If the name of the character already has a page for a different meaning, then it could be possible to mention the character's name on the page, especially in the case of Apep. It's just a thought to exploit Mortal Kombat's cross-referencing of things of cultural significance, as well as to direct more, unfamiliar people to the pages of Mortal Kombat. (Notorious4life 04:49, 21 February 2006 (UTC))

Yay! My first official task as a Wikiproject member was used as an example ^^ Anyway, I agree. I also believe that characters such as "Red Robin" should not get its own entry, but instead be a footnote in Ermac's bio. The characters people make up as rumors and hoaxes (such as Scarlet or Nimbus Terrafaux) may also have no place (that's rather ambiguous).The S 03:30, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

The character "Red Robin" certainly does not need to be mentioned at the top of the restaurant's article. What I'm specifically referring to is that, if the MK character was modeled after a cultural, diecital, or media icon of the same name, then the mentioning of the character should be included in the other article and vice-versa. Simply typing in Nimbus Terrafaux, or many other minor characters, will and should redirect to the page of minor characters, unless there is something else of more importance with an identical or similar name to that of the character. My goal in my aforementioned case is to clean up the redirects and mentioning of Mortal Kombat in irrelevant articles. One who visits the Red Robin page should not need to know that there is an insignificant MK character with the same name, and I opt to have it removed. (Notorious4life 05:10, 22 February 2006 (UTC))

I've decided to Be Bold and outright remove it from the restaurant's article. I doubt people would search for a possibly-not-even-real-in-the-first-place name for an MK character rather than a restaurant. If it was a link to Mr Hasashi on the Scorpion page, I could let it slide since Scorpion is perhaps notable enough to deserve that. Not so Ermac and not so a name some people decided to give Ermac. --L T Dangerous 21:16, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

lol i'm probably the main one, thats making it grow, i can name everyone i posted in there & the pictures, but but not necassary to say which, but there has been lots of minor characters, some of which hasn't been listed, i think some characters, like Orichid Hellbeast & Oni Warlord should be in there own catagories, such as side adventrured games, that'll include the elemental gods, but thats my opinion. ~~--Lil'Layzie-One

Characters/Items/Places/Organizations/etc. who need (Mortal Kombat) for Links

When fixing/creating links on pages, the following characters need (Mortal Kombat) in their links. I found these by trial and error, so add to the list. Thanks. Dalton Imperial 00:56, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Jade, Tanya, Raiden [can use Rayden or Raiden (Mortal Kombat)], Baraka, Blaze, Frost, Fujin, Jax, Kai, Kano, Kintaro, Kira, Kobra, Moloch, Rain, Reptile, Scorpion, Smoke, Kabal

Even though they're not characters, Special Forces and Lin Kuei may also need disambig.

By the way, a good tool to use is the Wiki What Links Here page - just insert the name you're looking for after the colon - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:

I'm a little confused about this. Can someone give a specific example please? I did a whatlinkshere on Jade (the mineral/gem) and looked through it for any MK stuff and didn't find any. Is this what we're talking about? dfg 17:03, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I suppose it's possible we managed to fix all the Jade links - I just looked through it and didn't find any either. However, if you look at the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/:Kano page, there are a few articles (the UMK3 page, for instance) that show up. Virogtheconq 17:14, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Alrighty, then I guess I did understand the "task" correctly. I can work on some of this. dfg 17:20, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Article Length

Dear friends, some MK articles are WAY too long. For example, the Outworld page had its complete history listed, in detail, while such information is also available on the characters' own pages (it's been changed now). Being encyclopaedic is not just providing information, but also providing relevant information. Remember that this is Wikipedia, the average user needs to be informed correctly and precisely. If they want to know ALL the details, they'll visit other sites. Captain Q

I very much agree with this. There are plenty of fan sites out there, and the info on WP doesn't need to rehash all of it. dfg 22:21, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Realms Pages

I've been cleaning up realms articles for some time now, only one still left to do is Earthrealm. IMO my new lay-outs look much cleaner, provide more factual information and contain less grammar and spelling errors. Captain Q

-If it looks cleaner, it's all good. Last time I looked at the realms pages, they seemed to repeat a good deal of the MK games' plotlines. I think the pages should focus on the realms' description, history, rulers and races, primarily.

I still think eliminating all individual Realms entries aside from the two or three biggest ones and having a more encompassing category or page would be better. See my subsubheading above on Condensing Articles. dfg 22:21, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Mortal Kombat disambiguation

I'm the user who originally split the Mortal Kombat page into Mortal Kombat (series) and Mortal Kombat (video game) - after a bit of a revision battle, I decided to let it go and someone rewrote Mortal Kombat into a disambig page which mirrors a similar section under Mortal Kombat (series). I guess my question is this: now that there's some sort of "official" revisions team, should the current page be kept solely for disambiguation (which I think is kinda useless, considering all WP articles with the words Mortal Kombat are related to this one series), or redirected to point at the Mortal Kombat (series) page, which I think would be more accurate - few other video game series have their own disambiguation page, and use the series page as the "portal" page for the more specific entries. Obviously I have something invested in this, so I'd like to hear everyone else's opinions. Virogtheconq 19:59, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm up for your way, personally. Shadaloo 01:46, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

MK TV Shows

OK, I've already said I'll offer what I can here. But I'm going to need some help from you guys. Now, it goes without saying that the pages for Conquest and Defenders of the Realm are about as sparse as they come. There are a few things we could definitely do with looking over, I'd suggest the following become main priorities:

• Expanding info on Conquest characters: While it's true that DOTR didn't introduce anyone who wouldn't later be put in an MK game, Conquest gave us three brand new main characters, Vorpax, Siro and Taja. These three were in every episode unless I'm very much mistaken. Yet they only have a few paragraphs each here on Wikipedia. There was so much gleamed about them over the course of the series- even though they didn't affect the main canon, their importance as standalone (alongside the show itself) characters can't be underestimated. There are also a lot of minor and incidental characters given Wikis. They should be expanded, too.
• Lack of pictures: While this is a problem that affects many MK Wikis, I feel it's particularly important to have pictures of characters because while there's not much doubt over what a "koin" may look like, an individual person can appear pretty much any single way. While it doesn't affect the quality of the prose written about the characters, it definitely alters the aesthetic value of the Wiki. And, again, this is a problem that MK Conquest characters both major and minor fall prey too.
• Does it deserve an episode guide?: Controversial, I realise. But think of it like this: There are Wikis for lists of every single episode of The Simpsons, South Park, Family Guy, The X-Files, Red Dwarf, etc, etc, etc- and in the case of a number of them, each episode has its own Wiki. What's to say Conquest and DOTR don't deserve the same treatment? You may argue that neither show lasted longer than a single season, but Conquest certainly gained a massive fanbase (particularly among MK fans) to give it the right to be defined as "notable".

There's quite a lot more that could do with adding but, in my opinion, those are the things we could do with fixing/working out first. With regards to filling out the info on the characters and episodes, I'd be able to help pretty well there. But I still need the help of a lot of you. The main problem is, Region 4 appears to be the only DVD region that has every episode of Conquest and DOTR. The UK comes so close with DOTR it's insulting- 12 episodes out of 13 (ironically, the only episode missing has Scorpion as a main feature- did these people learn nothing when they left him out of MK3?). As for Conquest, the DVDs are missing something like 6 or 8 episodes and, infuriatingly, half of them don't have episode titles come up on screen. I can work out which episode is which from brief synopses, but I can't guess what's in episodes I haven't seen. Other than that, though, I'm all ready to help!

Any thoughts/comments? --L T Dangerous 21:30, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

totalmortalkombat.com has a brief synopsis of each of the DOTR pages, and some nice summaries of each Conquest episode, so I think that can be worked from. I'm more than willing to help out with as much as I remember.

I miss that show, I really do. The folks in the UK and Australia are lucky they got DVDs. I'm still waiting. Probably always will be.

On my part, I intend to create a page devoted to the Malibu comic run. I'll give an extensive summary of its plot. I'm debating whether or not it should be an 'MK literature" page though, because there's still Jeff Rovin's novel to discuss, possibly the movie novelizations as well. Shadaloo 04:38, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't think the show is comparable to the others you listed, especially in terms of notability. In my opinion, things like an episode guide and all that don't belong on Wikipedia. What I would love to see, though, is a separate MK wiki (if I'm using that term correctly) because there's certainly enough material to populate one. Just not here. If that ever gets created, though, then everything that was created here could and should be migrated, so I'm not actively discouraging people adding more content, just voicing my concern. dfg 22:21, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Character Page Format

At the current time, these are the most commonly seen sections of each character page:

Character Box - Personalized character info (See Technical Announcements Section)
About Character - Short description of character
Storyline, Possible Future - History of character, with small sub-section concerning their last known game ending
Kombat highlights - Brief summary/quick refrence of notable actions the character has performed, and events they have paricipated in
Movie Appearance - Self-explanatory
TV appearance - Self-explanatory
Memorable Moves - Self-explanatory
Memorable fatalities/Fatalities - Self-explanatory
Memorable finishers/Other Finishers - Self-explanatory
Trivia - Miscellaneous info
External Links - Self-explanatory

This has been discussed, and L T Dangerous, Notorious4life, Virogtheconq and I seem to have come to a consensus that the "Memorable" portion of the move/fatality/finisher list is redundant, and the necessity of the "moves" section, while quite relevant, is questionable. Even the need for fatalities sections themselves has come into question.

Another often-seen discrepancy is the character's history section, titled "Biography/Storyline". Similar to how we've established that long MK game titles need abbreviation in the character boxes, we should come to consensus on what this should be titled. Virog has also mentioned that a second small subsection in this area should be created, at the top, detailing their debut.

Here are my views:

If it were up to me, I would remove the entire movelist and finishing sections. There are plenty of other sites, guides and FAQs that give detailed descriptions of what moves and fatalities each character has, and describe the former well enough, also describing how to use them strategically. So it is with Fatalities. In addition, the extremely valid point has been made that 90% of the fatality names are unofficial and fan-created (several by me, out of a lack of a section). I would suggest that each character have an external link section at the end of the page, not just the ones who have specific sites devoted to them. In this section could be posted links to such guides. They could even be labeled "Strategy/Special Move/Finisher resources", or something similar.

As for the storyline section, I'm happy with the current layout, but I do also like Virog's suggestion for an intro section. Some, but not all of the pages have debut info listed in the "About Character" section, and that might have to be changed. Even so, I'd be willing to give it a try and see how it looks. I also think that the plot section should be named "Storyline" or "Plotline" rather than "Biography".

Your views on these particular issues? Outside of the character box content, I think these are the most pressing matters at the time. Shadaloo 06:19, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to see the Finishing Moves kept, as they are a defining icon of not just the individual character, but the series as a whole. Removing the word "memorable" from the title would be wise, as that's an opinion. The names of the finishers could be omitted as well, as 90% of them are made-up by the Wikiauthor. Simply stating "Fatality 1: In an homage to Sub-Zero, Scorpion tears off his opponent's head and spine", for example, for one of Scorpion's Deception Fatalities, would suffice. The S 03:40, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

The "Factions in Mortal Kombat" articles need expansion.

They should follow the same format as the characters articles, something like:

breif synopsis stats (fighting styles and special moves, height and weight) story Highlights trivia

I agree. Might I suggest:

Synopsis
Goals of Clan/Aims
History
Known Members?

Shadaloo 06:59, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I'll get on this. Maybe a box similar to those on the character pages could best be provided. Captain Q 15:41, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Character Portrait Consistency

I've been thinking about this for a while, changing all of the character renders in their information templates to an edited version of their Mortal Kombat: Deception Bio. This, of course, wouldn't apply to characters not included in MK:D or rendered characters from Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks. I think this adds a significant amount of consistency to articles, allowing someone new to the whole hub-bub to know that the character is from Mortal Kombat, their name and appearance from simply looking at their portrait. Check out Noob-Smoke's article, where I've already put the idea into process. With Mortal Kombat: Armageddon looming, however, these would of course probably change soon. Not a huge proposal to break sweat over, just figured this could add to our campaign for consistency simply and effectively. I've got the edited Bios prepared, just want some positive responses to get into it... so, thoughts? Goroliath

I think a lot of the bios already use the Deception bio images - I don't see any problem with changing them, but I also don't see any particular benefit, since there's a lot of other details on the page that point to Mortal Kombat (usually in the first line of the article), though I will admit the picture is probably what's seen first. Your call. Virogtheconq 17:44, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

That's what I was thinking, people tend to view images before getting into text, I know I do. Cheers. Goroliath

Sub-Zero move

Justinpwilsonadvocate (talk · contribs) has moved the Sub-Zero article to Sub-Zero (Mortal Kombat) (which really is what it should have been named from the get-go). However, there are a slew of pages to be edited to properly avoid the redirect; if someone else wants to help me clean up the various articles, I'd really appreciate it. :) EVula 19:27, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I've been doing some of that as well. Virogtheconq 19:30, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Whee, and they're all done. There are now just two pages that link there. EVula 18:14, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Temple of Light

There is a dead-end article at Temple of Light. Does someone here want to adopt it and clean it up before it gets nominated for deletion? Thatcher131 03:25, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm all for deleting it. The information contained therein might be of use elsewhere, but it's not enough for a standalone article. Virogtheconq 03:53, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Technical announcements

Series Template updated

It fits better at the bottom of the page, much less white space, and even the colors are more MKish. Anybody feel free to tweak the colors, category names, or whatever. dfg 11:36, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I like this. I like it a lot. Shadaloo 06:31, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I tweaked it a bit to include the hide/show thingie, and swapped it in in place of the old template. All documented on the Template talk:Mortal Kombat series page. dfg 19:30, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm good with this as the standard template, personally. Others? Shadaloo 09:27, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Stubby Kombat

In order for a category to warrant its own stub type, if linked with a Wikiproject, there must be 30 or so artcles that qualify as stubs. I'm setting up a list here of ones I would qualify, add to it if there are any more. If we don't have thirty, we can always just use the 'Fictional' stub. Shadaloo 10:53, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Brotherhood Of The Shadow
Red Dragon
Black Dragon
White Lotus Society
Mortal Kombat: Tournament Edition

• I hope, because of my vast contributions, there shouldn't be that many stubs! I'll check and recommend some more articles for stubbing, but I don't think we can get 30. (Notorious4life 04:29, 10 February 2006 (UTC))

Character box designs by Notorious4life (talk), and Their Content

The complicated formula to create these boxes can be seen by editing the page of a character who has them. Copy the formula and paste it at the top of the desired character page, in addition to going through and changing the information. The usage of these boxes is highly encouraged, and anyone's constructive input on how to improve the box design and its content are welcome.

The character box designs follow the following guidelines:

• Inclusion of the following statistics, varied where necessary between characters:

Age, Height, Weight, Place of Origin/Resides (*NOTE), Appearances, Race, Allies, Enemies, Weapon(s), Fighting Styles, Alignment, Portrayers

• "Unknown" statistics should be kept to a bare minimum, and all statistics must be verifiable from an official source, preferably the games.

• Mortal Kombat Armageddon appearances will not be introduced into the boxes until the release, pending changes.

• Games with long titles, e.g. Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks should abbreviate the Mortal Kombat section of the title into MK.

One Being (image impossible for now, but maybe in the future).

(*NOTE*: These two seem varied around the pages. Which one should stick?)

• I'd say "Place of Origin" PNF 04:49, 18 February 2006 (UTC)Proud Nintendo Fan
  • I say that this statistic vary slightly from character to character. First, I opt to pick "Resides" for the organizational perspective in that it only takes up one line, while "Place of Origin" takes up two. The two are different though; the latter insinuates birthplace, while the former insinuates that they currently live in that location. If a character was born in one realm, yet currently resides in another, we should mention both as "Birthplace" and "Resides." Otherwise, "Resides" is my favored opinion to denote a person's residence. (Notorious4life 04:35, 21 February 2006 (UTC))
• We could just make "Place of Origin" simply "Origin"PNF 04:33, 22 February 2006 (UTC)Proud Nintendo Fan
  • How about "Homeworld"? Takes up less space than P.O.O. (>_<), and it technically could cover both situations. If a character's activities have shifted from one area to another, it can be denoted in brackets; "Outworld (formerly Zaterra)." Shadaloo 06:00, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Templatization

• FYI: I've templatized this to Template:Mortal Kombat character and have begun updating pages to this template. Raw HTML in articles is generally a bad idea (and a maintenance nightmare). I'm generally updating them alphabetically, so if you want to see some examples look at (for now) A-D character names. I also updated Raiden and a few other one-shots during my early testing to make sure they worked. Feel free to make suggestions at Template talk:Mortal Kombat character or even be bold and just update the thing (just be sure to go look at some characters to make sure nothing broke after you do). —Locke Cole • t • c 00:06, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Can I ask that this be placed on the main project page under the "character box" section, along with an example of how to make it work? I'd do it, but my knowledge of wikipedia code is elementary at best. Shadaloo 04:45, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
    • Sure, I can do this. Also, if you go look at Template:Mortal Kombat character you'll see I've provided usage instructions that you can just copy/paste as needed. —Locke Cole • t • c 05:06, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Follow-up, I believe all the characters that had boxes before are now all converted to this template (I did a bunch of them myself, and it looked like a few were done by contributors here; thanks for the help! =) ). —Locke Cole • t • c 05:06, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
    • This is great, it's a heck of a lot easier to edit now. Many many thanks! Shadaloo 06:00, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
      • No problem. =) Also, I've left a comment regarding the realname parameter (only used on Scorpion's page right now) at Template talk:Mortal Kombat character. Basically, the parameter may be unnecessary if Scorpion is the only one with a real name right now. I'll leave it if everyone here wants to keep it, but please leave a note at the talk page there letting me know one way or the other. =) —Locke Cole • t • c 04:23, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Character Bios and Endings

Somebody removed the character bios and endings section from Mortal Kombat 4, he listed his reason in the article's talk page, personally I don't think it was needed and I spent a long time writing out scripts of the endings so it makes it all worth nothing. PNF 16:05, 26 February 2006 (UTC)Proud Nintendo Fan

Well, the problem with the MK4 endings is that the scripts really are too long for the main article - my suggestion would be to make a new article titled Character endings in Mortal Kombat 4 or something like that and put the endings in there, then link it from the main MK4 page. Virogtheconq 17:48, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Crappers, I forgot to check if this was going on other MK articles. I also removed the char bios from the MK:D article, and I have to say I agree with the Jeff Silvers guy. I think the information has is valuable, but my concerns are for copyright issues and placement. I think the info would be better suited either in the individual char entries or as how Virog TC says, in a new article. dfg 19:23, 26 February 2006 (UTC) edited by dfg 00:28, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, a different section would be good for them.PNF 21:13, 26 February 2006 (UTC)Proud Nintendo Fan

Progression of character looks?

This is an idea I had...

What if part of the character page, had a section where it shows their looks from various MK games, like take for example.

Scorpion: (These are all from the character's bios) MK1 look --> MK2 look --> UMK3/MKT look --> MK4/MKG look --> MK:DA look --> MK:D look

(Or we could just post the character's bios and endings. What do you think?) PNF 01:48, 14 February 2006 (UTC)Proud Nintendo fan

I was thinking about doing something similar to that - I have almost all the endings from the first four games (up to UMK3) captured, and could probably post them at some point. They'd all fall under the "screenshots" category of Fair Use, so I don't think there'd be copyright issues. Virogtheconq 02:14, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Slight problem with that: A LOT of the character endings, and in some cases, the bios, get retconned or don't happen at all. Posting images depicting events that never occurred might confuse the casual viewer, in comparison to the storyline sections of the pages. Shadaloo 06:58, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, one option is to post the character endings (I'm guessing the bios are all canon) in the individual game sections, rather than the character articles. I could also crop the images down to only show the character with no text, and put those in the character articles as sort of a history of their appearances. Virogtheconq 07:02, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah... I know about that Shadoloo, personally I think that a good portion of the retconning Midway does is stupid and uncalled for, I mean is it really that hard to find a way to make it work into the storyline? John Vogel has has some great ideas, yes, but his main flaw is that he just retcons way too much from what John Tobias wrote during his time as MK Storyline writer. I did add the bios and endings so far to MK1-MK3. Maybe there could be links from there to a picture of their endings? PNF 13:50, 14 February 2006 (UTC)Proud Nintendo fan

Personally, I like the idea of including pics showing a character's progession. They have something similar at the Homestar Runner Wiki (www.hrwiki.org) but I'm gonna agree with Shadaloo with the regards to the endings. The bios generally hold true, but the endings are inevitably retconned with generally fewer than five actually "happening". We definitely need to include the story of what we do know (as in "up until now") in the articles but adding the endings that were retconned will just make it confusing for new Kombat fans reading the articles.

To be honest, I don't think it's so much of a problem that endings are retconned. Not everyone can win the tournament. It's the same thing with the Street Fighter games- the endings generally show everybody killing Bison or winning the tournament, etc, etc, etc. Similarly, Shadow the Hedgehog has 326 paths to the end, 11 endings, but only one "true" ending. In MK, it usually helps us gleam insight into characters we wouldn't usually find much out about. Tanya is a perfect example- there's basically nothing suggesting she's evil in MK4 until you finish the game as her. Likewise, Li Mei is a good guy, but her soul's been tainted with evil, thus her ending shows a shift down that path- it helps you work out what to expect in the next game. --L T Dangerous 21:25, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

• There's actually been a couple of cases of retconned bios. Half of Cyrax's MK Gold storyline was retconned by MKDA, as well as part of Sektor's. The big bad boy though, is Johnny Cage. His MKDA bio and ending (regarding the portrayal of his character as repeatedly dying) is intended to retcon his MKT and MKG storylines, where Kahn's Ext. squads killed him, his soul bounced back because of the merger, went back to heaven when Kahn was beaten, and was given life again permanently by Raiden. Supposedly, none of that happened. It's one of those little known about/unpopular retcons that was handled very poorly, as the MKDA ending and bio reads like he's actually talking about dying in the movies he made, in addition to the fact that we're just supposed to work on supposition that he fought alongside his friends at those times. Most people despise it, but officiality is supposed to override all (Except in MKSM's case, which was just too much to handle, and ignored almost entirely). That'll actually have to be addressed.

Project Template

• The MortalKombatProject template is available to use. This should be placed in all Mortal Kombat article talk pages. Check it out at the main project page. If you should happen to stumble across a page whose talk page lacks it, please insert it.

Shadaloo 06:19, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Casual Discussion

Discuss MK! Socialize! FIGHT!

Here's another one

I've been on a bit of a Conquest kick recently, and since I also like to try and incorporate everything into a single canon, I've been thinking about how Scorpion's presence could fit into the canon storyline. In Conquest, Scorpion is actually a sort of warrior spirit (in the form of a yellow and black scorpion, oddly enough) that could merge with other people to manifest itself. In this context, presumably Hasashi Hanzo could have merged with the Scorpion spirit while in Netherrealm after his death, and since the scorpion was a prisoner of Shang Tsung, could easily have been liberated after the first or second tournament. Since the Scorpion spirit suppresses whomever it infests, Hanzo could have chosen to intentionally merge with it as a means of vengeance, which would explain why he "can never again know his family," whatever that means. Still trying to figure Noob Saibot out, though - presumably he could be a spirit in a similar fashion to Scorpion, but that would just be boring. =O) Thoughts? Virogtheconq 23:04, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like a cool idea for some fanfic! -^SilentRAGE! 09:43, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Deception question

Not having actually played Deception (and not being that familiar with the Konquest storyline), I'm a bit confused about the presence of the Order and Chaosrealms and how they fit into the MK universe (other than they're both realms). From what I can tell, the fight against Onaga only takes place in Outworld/Edenia, so the two realms wouldn't be involved. I can understand Hotaru and Havik's presences, since it's quite possible the realms are aware of Onaga's return, and Dairou since he's pursuing Hotaru, but Darrius? Virogtheconq 16:06, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

This is something I find very annoying about Darrius, Dairou and Hotaru. Yes, Hotaru offers servitude to Onaga but, other than that, the three characters offer nothing to the plotline, only their deceptively convoluted "hate triangle". Seido doesn't really add anything to the plot. Similarly, Havik's a little more well rounded, but not much (but he doesn't need to be, he's interesting as a straightforward, 1-dimensional guy), and Chaosrealm is just "Havik's home". My interpretation is that Orderrealm and Chaosrealm are more about showing character detail (what Hotaru and Havik believe in, respectively) than really adding to the MK Universe.

I think the most important thing the realms (and, indeed, their characters) display is the balance between order and chaos. Havik's dedicated to causing chaos wherever he goes, however possible, even going so far, in his ending, as to ressurect who he believes to be Shao Kahn. Of course, too much chaos is a bad thing. Hotaru, meanwhile, is the other extreme. Uptight, officious and bureaucratic, he feels the need to police everything, imprisoning Shujinko for twenty years for breaking a menial law Shujinko didn't even know of- and then being hypocritical enough to show up to be part of Shujinko's defence case. Too much chaos is bad but too much order is also bad (as implied, intentionally or not, by Seido being by far the most confusing realm to navigate in Konquest).

Darrius and Dairou, to me, are somewhere in between. Dairou is, at heart, a good guy, but he's clearly aware of how too much order can be a problem and questions that. Darrius, though, just despises order and strikes me as nothing more than an anarchist. He'd probably not want chaos as extreme as Havik does, but he likely wouldn't be far behind given his nature as a borderline terrorist.

On a personal note, I think Dairou and Darrius are the worst new characters of the bunch and Hotaru isn't far behind. Hotaru, to me, seems to exist purely to contrast the much more interesting and likeable Havik. And Darrius and Dairou are just out and out bland with nothing going for them other than a cool pair of gauntlets for Darrius and a strange tattoo for Dairou. People complained Styker was bland, but he was interesting in that he represented what a "real" person from the "real" world would be like in the MK world. Dairou and Darrius are just "real people" but who live in a weird realm, which makes them all the more bland by comparison.

Mind you, MKD is a little preachy if you look deeply enough... --L T Dangerous 14:03, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

As far as I'm conserened, it's a side-storyline that should have waited till after Deception. It sucks that Midway is destroying a storyline that only existed in one game, just to be destroyed in another. ^SilentRAGE! 09:46, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, here's one for you...

Who's "Classic Sub-Zero"?

Yes, I know he's a cynical excuse to re-use the old sprite and get more mileage out of recolouring good old Scorpion. BUT his UMK3/MKT ending states he removes his mask and everyone is shocked to see his true identity- someone long missing from a previous MK and who will return in the fourth tournament.

Ignoring for a second the fact that MK3 and MK4 weren't actual Mortal Kombat tournaments AND the fact his ending "didn't happen", who on Earth(realm) could he be? There was nobody in that had appeared in the previous games that wasn't already playable in MKT. And nobody introduced in MK4 had...well, if they were INTRODUCED in MK4, they'd not been there before, now had they?

This seems to me to be the biggest puzzler in MK history. Basically every other loose end has been tied up to at least some degree. But not this one. Thing is, Midway probably never will explain it, either. Have you guys got any really good theories for the rest of us to bite into? --L T Dangerous 21:36, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm one of those freaks who likes to fit everything humanly possible into canon if there's room for it, so I'm an avid supporter of the theory that he's Noob Saibot wearing blue. If not that, then equivalent to Human Smoke and the MK2 and 1 versions of Jax, Kung Lao, Raiden and Kano: an old version of a character simply put in for popularity reasons. Shadaloo 06:19, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

He's Jesus. No, I kid. I second the theory that he's just the Sub-Zero version of Human Smoke. The S 03:20, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I third that theory. When I'm playing it, I usually imagine him as Noob Saibot, but using his old costumes and powers. Then again, he could just be Sub-Zero (the younger) with a mask on. :O ^---SilentRAGE! 09:52, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Discussing Political, Religious, and other factors of Mortal Kombat

Although Mortal Kombat has perhaps the deepest storyline of any fighting game, it is constantly chastized by fans and nonfans alike for its story. Some of these are allegories to current or past events (for example, Kira (Mortal Kombat) delivering weapons in Afghanistan). Now, when such an allegory is made in, say, a comic book, it is praised - which is why characters such as Captain America were so popular in times of war. But in MK, it is, for some reason, seen as cheesy or irrevelant. What is your opinion? The S 03:20, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Excellent point of discussion. I think it's because of the very nature of the series. To sum; it's hard to take social commentary seriously in a game known for ultraviolence. Characters such as Captain America are known for being upstanding fictional heroes - even the good guys of MK don't really fit that template in the eyes of the world - they kill, and that isn't equated with ficticious heroism. People are less concerned with the murderer's take on the presidency than with why he mudered a family of five - that's my bizarre analogy and take. Shadaloo 05:04, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm... good point. However, if I recall correctly, I can't remember too many times in which a good guy canonly murdered someone. But I'd like to take this in a different direction for a moment. Sub-Zero (the first one) murdered Scorpion in cold blood (no pun intended). Then, Scorpion returned from the grave to get revenge. But Scorpion is always seen as the villain in this portion of the story. True, he did work for Shao Kahn and Shinnok later on, but after he found out about Sub-Zero the second's existance, he vowed to become his guardian in order to atone for slaying his brother (although Midway seemed to have forgotten this plot point by MK4). The S 03:46, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Damn, I never thought of that. Scorpion should be seen in a good light. Unless him and his family were a gang of evil child molestors or something like that, he is truely that good one here. Oh, and I don't think it was ever part of his storyline that he did anything for Shao Kahn or Shinnok. ^---SilentRAGE! 09:56, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team cooperation

Hello. I'm a member of the Version 1.0 Editorial Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing articles using these criteria, and we are are asking for your help. As you are most aware of the issues surrounding your focus area, we are wondering if you could provide us with a list of the articles that fall within the scope of your WikiProject, and that are either featured, A-class, B-class, or Good articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Do you have any recommendations? If you do, please post your suggestions at the listing of all active Hobbies WikiProjects, and if you have any questions, ask me in the Work Via WikiProjects talk page or directly in my talk page. Thanks a lot! Titoxd^{(?!? - help us)} 05:58, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

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