Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Gaelic games/Biographies

Article title conventions

Bearing in mind the following:

• Wikipedia:Naming conventions (sportspeople)
• Wikipedia:WikiProject Gaelic games/bio
• Dual player
• Talk:Brian Murphy (Gaelic games)#Move?
• Talk:John Bunyan (sportsperson)#Move?
• Talk:John Bunyan (sportsperson)#Requested move

I propose the following naming conventions GAA player bio articles:

1. Where not a dual player:
   1. Usual dab: John Foo (hurler) (or John Foo (footballer) or Joan Foo (camogie) as the case may be)
   2. John Foo (Gaelic footballer) if another John Foo plays soccer or Australian rules football (but not rugby or gridiron)
      • I think John Foo (Gaelic footballer) is preferable to John Foo (Irish footballer) even when both are unambiguous
      • I think Joan Foo (Gaelic footballer) is preferable to Joan Foo (ladies' Gaelic footballer) where relevant
   3. If still ambiguous, use the following formats (in descending order of preference)
      1. John Foo (Cork hurler)
         • John Foo (Cork and Dublin hurler) if represented both counties at senior level, and one does not predominate over the other in the popular consciousness)
         • If John Foo from Cork plays Gaelic football and John Foo from Dublin plays soccer, we could prefer either of
           1. John Foo (Gaelic footballer) and John Foo (association footballer) (or John Foo (Irish association footballer) if needed)
           2. John Foo (Cork footballer) and John Foo (Dublin footballer) or
         • My vote is for #1 as it is more likely to be obvious; fans of either code are less likely to know which county a player came from than to know that they play the correct sport in the first place.
      2. John Foo (Cork hurler, born 1977)
      3. John Foo (St. Finbarr's hurler, born 1977)
2. Where is a dual player:
   1. If reasonably well-known in both:
      1. John Foo (sportsperson) if not ambiguous
         • redirect from John Foo (dual player) and John Foo (footballer) and John Foo (Gaelic footballer) and John Foo (hurler)
      2. If "sportsperson" is ambiguous (whether clashing with other GAA players or with players other sports), try (in descending order of preference)
         1. John Foo (Irish sportsperson)
         2. John Foo (Cork sportsperson)
         3. John Foo (Gaelic football and hurling) (or John Foo (hurling and Gaelic football) if better known in hurling)
         4. John Foo (Cork Gaelic football and hurling)
         5. John Foo (St. Finbarr's Gaelic football and hurling)
            • John Foo (Vins Gaelic football and Blackrock hurling)
         6. John Foo (Gaelic football and hurling, born 1977)
         7. John Foo (Cork Gaelic football and hurling, born 1977)
         8. John Foo (St. Finbarr's Gaelic football and hurling, born 1977)
   2. If significantly better known in one (say hurling) than the other:
      1. Use John Foo (hurler) if not ambiguous
         • If "hurler" is ambiguous same cases as listed above for non-dual player
      2. Redirect from John Foo (dual player)
      3. For each of John Foo (Gaelic footballer) and John Foo (footballer) and John Foo (sportsperson)
         • if not ambiguous redirect
         • otherwise add hatnote to existing article of that name and/or add line to DAB page

jnestorius^(talk) 20:38, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Table of examples

Current title	Proposed title	Notes
John Bunyan (sportsperson)	John Bunyan (sportsperson) (no move)	DAB John Bunyan
Redmond Barry (sportsperson)	Redmond Barry (sportsperson) (no move)	DAB Redmond Barry (disambiguation) has no other sportsperson
Mary O'Connor (Irish sportsperson)	Mary O'Connor (Irish sportsperson) (no move)	DAB Mary O'Connor (athlete) from New Zealand
Brian Murphy (Gaelic games)	Brian Murphy (Gaelic football and hurling)	DAB Brian Murphy (hurler, born 1982) and Brian Murphy (1960s Gaelic footballer) both from Cork; Brian Murphy (Gaelic games) should be a {{R from incomplete disambiguation}} to Brian Murphy
Brian Murphy (hurler, born 1982)	Brian Murphy (hurler, born 1982) (no change)	DAB Brian Murphy (Gaelic games) from Cork
Brian Murphy (1990s Gaelic footballer)	Brian Murphy (Dublin Gaelic footballer) or Bryan Murphy (Gaelic footballer)	DAB Brian Murphy (Gaelic games), Brian Murphy (1960s Gaelic footballer) and Brian Murphy (association footballer). Article is not clear about his DOB or spelling of his surname. Also redirect from Brian Murphy (Kerry Gaelic footballer) as he only represented Kerry as a minor.
Brian Murphy (1960s Gaelic footballer)	Brian Murphy (Cork Gaelic footballer, born 19??)	DAB Brian Murphy (Gaelic games). Article is not clear about his DOB
Brendan Cummins (GAA player)	Brendan Cummins (Tipperary sportsperson)	DAB Brendan Cummins (Cork hurler). Also redirects from Brendan Cummins (Tipperary hurler) and Brendan Cummins (Tipperary footballer)
Tom Collins (dual player)	Tom Collins (Gaelic footballer)	DAB Tom Collins (athlete), born in Ireland, county not specified; and Tom Collins (footballer) which should be moved to Tom Collins (Scottish footballer). Also redirect from Tom Collins (hurler), only won junior title in hurling.
Stephen Murphy (dual player)	Stephen Murphy (Wexford sportsperson)	DAB Stephen Murphy (hurler) from Kerry, who should be moved to Stephen Murphy (Kerry hurler), with Stephen Murphy (hurler) a {{R from incomplete disambiguation}} to Stephen Murphy
Billy O'Neill (dual player)	Billy O'Neill (Gaelic footballer) or Billy O'Neill (Galway sportsperson) or Billy O'Neill (Galway and Cork sportsperson)	DAB Billy O'Neill (footballer) (which should move to Billy O'Neill (association footballer)). Article doesn't give enough info to say whether hurling and Cork are prominent enough to influence the title, or should be relegated to redirects. Billy O'Neill (hurler) should be a redirect, with hatnotes to and from Willie O'Neill (hurler).
Cahir Healy (dual player)	Cahir Healy (sportsperson) or Cahir Healy (footballer)	DAB Cahir Healy, who is not a sportsperson. Not sure his hurling accomplishments merit influencing the article title. Cahir Healy (hurler) should redirect.
Steven O'Brien (dual player)	Steven O'Brien (Tipperary sportsperson)	DAB Steven O'Brien (Cork Gaelic footballer) and Stephen O'Brien (Kerry footballer).
Steven O'Brien (Cork Gaelic footballer)	Steven O'Brien (Cork footballer)	No Cork soccer player at Steven O'Brien
David O'Callaghan (dual player)	David O'Callaghan (Dublin sportsperson)	DAB David O'Callaghan (Kerry Gaelic footballer). David O'Callaghan (hurler) and David O'Callaghan (Dublin footballer) should redirect
David O'Callaghan (Kerry Gaelic footballer)	David O'Callaghan (Kerry footballer)	DAB David O'Callaghan (dual player)
Frank Burke (dual player)	Frank Burke (Dublin sportsperson)	DAB Frank Burke (hurler) (which should move to Frank Burke (Galway hurler)). Frank Burke (Gaelic footballer) should redirect
Jim Young (dual player)	Jim Young (Gaelic football and hurling)	DAB Jim Young (St. Finbarr's hurler), both from Cork. Jim Young (Gaelic footballer) should redirect, and Jim Young (footballer) should be moved to Jim Young (Australian rules footballer).
Tom Irwin (dual player)	Tom Irwin (Irish sportsperson)	DAB Tommy Irwin, of baseball. Tom Irwin (footballer) and Tom Irwin (hurler) should redirect. {{distinguish}} to/from Thomas Urwin (footballer)

Discussion

One issue is cases where we don't have the player's date of birth. Date of death would do but often won't apply. jnestorius^(talk) 09:53, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

On reflection, I think we should prefer John Foo (footballer) (already widely used in articles) to John Foo (Gaelic footballer) This will require a change to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (sportspeople)#Association football (soccer) where onlky US, Canada, Australia are exceptions. I will revise the above proposal in light of this when I get the time. jnestorius^(talk) 15:28, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Updated. jnestorius^(talk) 20:38, 15 August 2017 (UTC)