Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (television)/poll

Previous discussions:

• Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (television)
• Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation#Disambiguation for television shows

Previous votes

• Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (television)/Archive1
• Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (television)#Voting

Proposed naming conventions

• Wikipedia:Naming conventions (television)
• Wikipedia:Naming conventions (television)/draft

Television or TV

For me the options don't seem cover what I think is the best solution. Don't use TV in titles, use television instead. Vegaswikian 06:18, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Try reading it again and please let me know if it is still unclear. There are two separate polls, the first poll asks just that question, whether TV or television should be used. The second option is whether another/what kind of disambiguator should follow. --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 14:25, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Still unclear, but maybe its just me. The examples can lead one to assume that television should always be in the title. But really the issues is to use television over TV only when you need to use it for disambiguation in the title. That's why I would favor it simply saying that you don't use TV in titles, only television. For me that's simple and clear. But as I said maybe its just me. Vegaswikian 22:01, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Has my last edit cleared up the confusion. I guess I was assuming the general convention of don't disambiguate unless necessary so "television" or "TV" wouldn't be added unless it was needed. --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 04:54, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes. Vegaswikian 08:17, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Use "television" in article titles but "TV" in disambiguators.

This option is not really clear to me. And the examples don't help me ! The "title" vs "disambiguator" is not clear in the examples. Do we

• have the choice between "television" and "TV"
• or, use "television" when it's the sole disambiguator (like for Deadwood (television)) and "TV" when there are 2 or plus (like in Dallas (TV Series) ?

Lvr 16:32, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I got rid of the poll option, it was only valid if the first option in poll 2 was chosen and obviously lead to some confusion. I left a note at the bottom if that option was chosen because it seems (to me) like the best comprimise between the two option (television) and (TV series) --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 18:04, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Film Vs. Movie, program(me) Vs. Show

While the poll is about 10 days from ending, it looks like there may have to be a follow up poll to answer the unresolved issue of Television/TV movie vs. Television/TV film and Television/TV show vs. Television program(me)

Film vs. movie

1. TV film - maintains consistency for "films" but, TV film is a redirect/doesn't exist

   Supported by:

   • Wikipedia:Naming conventions (films)
   • Category:Television films
2. TV movie - more common usage but breaks consistency with naming convention

   Supported by:

   • TV movie
   • Category:Television movie stubs
3. (film) - Treat films created for television under the naming convention for films, though "TV" can be added for additional disambiguation

   Supported by:

   • Wikipedia:Naming conventions (films)
   • There are probably at least 30 TV movies/films named Movie Title (film), see Category:Television movie stubs, List of television movies, Category:Television films and what links to TV movie.

Program(me) vs. show

1. TV program(me) - Simple and concise; agrees with other editing guidelines, no inherent national linguistic bias. Television program covers all material produced for television.

   Supported by:

   • Television program
   • Category:Television series by country
2. TV show - simple and concise, resolves program(me) naming convention problems, no bias

   Supported by:

   • Category:2000s TV shows in the United States
   • Category:Television series by country

Talk shows, game shows, news show

1. Include TV before "show" eg. Scrabble (TV game show), Bulleye (TV news show)

   Consistent with the proposed naming scheme

2. Do not include TV before "show" e.g. Scrabble (game show), Bulleye (news show)

   Supported by:

   • Category:Game shows
   • Disambiguated talk shows also use "(talk show)" or show, see links at Talk show
3. Do not use game, talk or news unless needed e.g. Scrabble (TV show), Bulleye (TV show)

   Supported by:

   • Consistent with proposed naming scheme

Comments would be appreciated. In particular, should this be a separate issue after the main poll is done, or added to this poll and the main poll extended a week or so. --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 20:31, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't think either is ideal, but I think a new discussion would be preferable to an extension. Incidentally, there seems to be a lot of support for series/program/film rather than series/show/movie (disclaimer: myself included!). If we're going to choose between movie and film, surely we should also look at program and show? But since votes are evil, I'm not really sure what we should do! --Lox (t,c) 22:04, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, in addition to my comment, those poll options look good to me! --Lox (t,c) 22:06, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree that polls tend to be evil but sometimes are needed to resolve issues like these. I have added program/show information (in response to your request). I also want to point out that program(me) may be more complicated than it looks. For example why are Finnish and Danish television productions called programmes, but Greek and Hong Kong called programs? Country of origin may not be so simple. --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 23:11, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I have added another proposed poll option about TV game shows, talk shows and news shows that I think should be addressed by the follow-up poll. The follow up poll will not begin for at least a week after this poll has ended to see if there are any other issues that might need to be resolved. During that time proposed poll options will be worked out. Your comments, then or now are welcome! --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 08:17, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Game shows

No matter how this turns out, I'd have trouble doing anything to change how game shows are disambiguated in practice. The vast majority use ProgramName (game show), which is absolutely fine. See Category:Game shows. I've documented this on the main convention page[1], so please make sure the sentiment isn't lost in the future. -- Netoholic @ 23:03, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with your suggestions, but they should not be put onto the main page until polling has finished. In particular, the show-program/me issue has not been resolved. Additionally there has been no previous discussion about using (television) for non content issues related to television. Please wait for the community to come to a consensus before implementing your solution. --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 16:43, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Edits to naming convention page

There have been has made three edits to the main television naming convention page that I strongly disagree with while dicussion of the poll is still open. [2] [3] [4] I do not wish to make a big issue of this because I mostly agree with his suggestions, but I do not think that any changes to the main convention page should be made while discussion are still in progress. Furthermore the old proposal served as a record of what was rejected by the community in previous polls. I think the page should be returned to an earlier version. --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 16:43, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Polls are a tool for determining (or more accurately, demonstrating) consensus. Firstly, the changes I made have really nothing to do with this poll and added both based on the high-degree to which they are already used. I added the "game show" item after mentioning it above, and there were no objections. I added an "articles about television itself" items because it's clear there is a distinction that needs to be made. I think most everyone would agree that there is no good case for using Article (TV) - if the article is about television industry or terminology, it should use (television). This poll is centered on TV programming.

You mentioned that you don't have specific changes, just that they were done before the poll closed. I think thatyou should not get so caught up in the polling process, such that you revert good, and good-faith, additions. It is a wiki, and we tend to do "whatever works". -- Netoholic @ 22:22, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Netoholic, I'm fine with your suggestions, but this has been a contentious issue that was being handled amicably with this poll to determine the consensus of the community. You have a record of unilateral actions on this very topic to which many contributors objected [5]. Other contributors have made suggestions about the poll and the likely follow up without changes to the main naming convention page. I am simply asking that you do the same.

As far as your first change to the main page, I chose to ignore it because I feared that extended and perhaps unproductive discussion (like this one) would occur, after your second edit I choose to revert it and suggest that you put other recommendations in the talk page, rather than changing the main page.

As far as the nature of polls, while they can be divisive they are also quite useful, which is why this one is listed like the many others at Wikipedia:Current surveys.

I would appreciate other insight into this. Thanks! --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 23:31, 13 February 2006 (UTC)