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Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Peer review/Richard Williams (RAAF officer)

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Richard Williams (RAAF officer) edit

Self-nom for this heavily expanded/rewritten article, whose previous brief content had been largely copied straight from Williams' AWM biography. I've upped it from Stub to Start-class but believe it currently meets all criteria for at least B-class. Like to get this one to A-Class and also gather opinions on what it might still need to consider FA (reckon the fundamentals are all there, perhaps not long enough - anyway, let me know). Cheers, Ian Rose 14:54, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kirill Lokshin edit

Very nice, overall; just a few points to look at:

  • Categories!
  • Is the external link really necessary? I'm not sure that it adds anything for the reader beyond what is already present in the article.

Other than that, everything looks up to par. Keep up the great work! Kirill 01:42, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Heh, knew there was some thing missing from the end - cats added. Yep, the text in that external link was obviously by Alan Stephens, distilled from his published histories, which I've used heavily anyway. To be honest, main reason I put it in was so people could see the painting - but removed now. Thanks/cheers, Ian Rose 02:19, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Roger Davies edit

Not much to add to Kirill's comments really other than to say that I thought it was well and briskly written and it could do with more images (preferably colour ones). I personally like quirky anecdotal material in biographies; they say so much about a person's nature and add much to memorability. Is there any suitable material? Otherwise, I'd support it in a FAC at its current word count: I've never seem the point in writing to an arbitrary length just for the sake of it. --ROGER DAVIES TALK 07:43, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Roger, agree on all points. Think I've grabbed most of the good 'clear copyright' images available from AWM, all of which are black-and-white except one very long shot in colour that wouldn't be of much use, plus a colour painting from WWI which is copyright but I'm making enquiries... I also favour the quirky and/or controversial things and hopefully a fair bit of that's in here with the interservice and interpersonal rivalries that spice most of the RAAF-related articles I've written or expanded (is there a pattern here, I ask myself) - but I'll keep an eye out for any other such items. Cheers, Ian Rose 09:05, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Added a quote in the WWI section around life expectancy for AFC pilots... Cheers, Ian Rose 18:27, 27 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hawkeye7 edit

  • "Williams rescued a pilot forced down behind enemy lines, an action that earned him the Distinguished Service Order."

I checked the Gazette. It lists this as one of two reasons:

"Capt. Richard Williams, Flying Corps. "For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. Flying at a low altitude under intense anti-aircraft fire, he attacked and dispersed enemy troops who were concentrating on our flank. On another occasion, whilst on a reconnaissance, he landed in the enemy's lines, and rescued a pilot of a machine which had been brought down by hostile fire." London Gazette Issue 30234 14 August 1917

Thanks, I'll incorporate the additional info and citation/link. IR
Done. IR
  • He was commissioned in 1911 and joined the Permanent Military Forces the following year.

Okay, this checks out. I would have noted that he was commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant in 1/5 AIR (on 5 March 1911) -- this lets us know his actual rank. He reached the rank of sergeant as an enlisted man.

Will do. IR
Done. IR
  • His Army file says that he was posted to Point Cook on 18 September 1914, not August 1914.
Stephens at the very least has the course starting 17 August 1914, with Williams on it. I don't think my wording is in conflict with your info. Participating in a course doesn't imply being 'posted' to Point Cook at that time. IR
Haven't altered anything around this, per above. IR
  • He lists his wife as Mrs Constance Esther Williams.
Does the article need to change? Griffiths was her maiden name. IR
Added "Esther". IR
  • "At the time the squadron was equipped with B.E.2 fighters"

In Australia? (Which it didn't depart until March 1916?) Cutlack p. 32 says that 1 Squadron departed without aircraft.

I'll make it clear that the B.E.2s were after the Squadron reached the Middle East. IR
Done. IR
  • "Initially involved in isolated tasks around the Suez Canal, the squadron began to operate concertedly in December 1916"

But wasn't Williams was attached to No. 14 Squadron RFC in Somalia from 21 April 1916 to 17 February 1917, except while he was hospitalised at 3 AGH for petrol burns to his foot in July-August 1916?

Could I have your source for those? I don't think my wording - which refers to the squadron in general - is in conflict with that info but happy to drill down to that level re. RW's movement if I can cite it. IR
His Army personnel file at the National Archives. It occurred to me that since he wasn't in the Army in WWII, his file would not have been consolidated with his WWII record and would therefore be available online. Your wording is quite correct; I just thought it might mislead.
Mentioned RFC attachments without going into exact units/timeframes. BTW, think it was Ismaïlia, not Somalia, for 14SQN. IR
Thanks, will incorporate. IR
Thought I might leave out the Order of Al Nahda but mentioned the CBE. IR
  • "All other senior RAAF commanders who were veterans of World War I, with the exception of the-then Chief of the Air Staff, Air Vice Marshal George Jones, were also dismissed"

Really? I seem to recall guys like E. C. Wackett and G. J. W Mackinolty. Weren't they senior RAAF commanders who were with the AFC?

I think you're confusing E.C. Wackett with L.J. Wackett. L.J (Lawrence) was in the AFC in WWI and resigned from the RAAF in the early 1930s. E.C. (Ellis) only joined the RAAF in 1923 after a year with the RAN; I don't think he saw any action in WWI or was ever involved in the AFC. Mackinolty however was AFC, as a mechanic, and he did indeed survive the 'purge' of 1946. I guess "All other senior RAAF commanders who were veteran pilots of World War I" is more accurate wording. However I could also change to "A number of other senior RAAF commanders who were veterans of World War I" to be safe. Opinion? IR
Sounds good. I had indeed confused the two Wacketts. E. C.'s file is also online.
Modified earlier. IR

Hawkeye7 21:07, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all that, Hawkeye. Cheers, Ian Rose 23:07, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hopefully these have all been adequately addressed now - tks again. Cheers, Ian Rose 18:20, 27 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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