User:Ikip/Sausage

"Wikipedia:Sausage" redirects here. For the humorous essay, see Wikipedia:Sausages for tasting.

Wikipedia guidelines and policies are often created by a small minority of veteran editors. Very few guidelines and policies are vetted through a voting or consensus process. In fact, veteran editors often discourage voting, stating that it is not necessary.

In most cases, one user simply changes an essay template to a guideline, and if no one disagrees, this essay becomes a guideline. Once this essay becomes guideline, veteran editors then begin to more forcefully exert this guideline on all wikipedia editors.

Examples

GUIDELINE: Wikipedia:Notability (films)

Background This essay was put up for deletion in February 2007.[1] The majority of editors felt that it should be put tagged {{rejected}} or {{historical}} or merged. Two months later, an editor added a policy tag based on what was on the essay's talk page, despite opposition: Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(films)/Archive_1#Options Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(films)/Archive_1#Merge Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(films)/Archive_1#WP:3O Edit history 22:12, 5 July 2006 Article created by User:Eluchil404: "Wrote essay discussing notability of films" 21:22, 7 September 2006 User:Radiant! recat[agorized] as proposal.[2] 12:51, 29 November 2006 User:Radiant! {{historical}}, lack of recent debate and no apparent consensus on talk page; proponents of this proposal are advised to advertise it, e.g. at the village pump November to February 2006, edit wars over historical tag. 00:27, 27 February 2007 Kevin Murray puts the article up for deletion.[3] Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Wikipedia:Notability_(films) Comments: "tag as rejected. We don't delete proposals because they've been rejected." "can be tagged as historical or rejected to avoid instruction creep." "tag it appropriately." "So tag it as {{rejected}} or {{historical}}" "perhaps merge elements with with WP:FICT?" "Mark as rejected." "Keep, reject, and merge relevant content into WP:FICT, WP:BK" "Keep but tag as rejected" "Keep per above reasons and tag rejected per consensus." "keep but mark as rejected as per User:Amarkov, User:TheFarix, User:Nifboy, User:Eluchil404, User:Centrx, User:Dr Aaron, User:Hiding, User:Seraphimblade above." "Keep, tag is as rejected proposal" 19:22, 27 February 2007 User:DennyColt "rejected per Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Notability (films)" adds {{rejected}} tag, reverts "per history" in next edit February to March 2007 Edit war over rejected tag, page protected. 10:09, 16 March 2007 Radiant adds {{mergedisputed|Notability (books)}} Page protected again. April 2007 - June 2007 Page has proposed policy tag. 20:00, 3 April 2007 DennyColt Tagged as a guideline "seems to be at least a guideline based on talk page concensus".[4] 12:34, 18 June 2007 Radiant! Adds policy tag "per talk page, objections appear to be resolved"[5]

GUIDELINE: Wikipedia:Notability (please expand)

How did this page become a guideline? Created by Demi, User:Demi/Notability is the origin[6] of the currentWikipedia:Notability. Created 07:37, 20 April 2005. "Deletion is a charged word that makes it sound like I want to destroy information. I prefer "exclusion." If I vote delete it doesn't necessarily mean I think the information shouldn't exist; just that it doesn't belong here and I don't (within the context of this project and its sisters) know where it should go."[7] Edit history User:Neutrality, 05:03, 19 May 2005, 3 minutes after transfering the essay from userspace, makes the article a guideline.[8] User:Kappa, 06:02, 19 May 2005 "don't think this is an official guideline"[9] User:BlankVerse 09:25, 19 May 2005[10] Proposed as policy User:Radiant 20:58, 14 January 2006[11] Recat as Essay User:Radiant! 21:09, 7 September 2006 [12] Proposed guideline User:Radiant! 09:04, 23 September 2006 [13] Changed to Guideline "per talk page; this page is simply a description of the status quo" User:Radiant! 13:33, 27 September 2006 [14] We don't vote on proposals. A description of actual practice is a guideline. User:Radiant! 20:26, 1 October 2006 [15] It is a well-known fact that we do not vote on proposals. Centrx 21:41, 1 October 2006 [16] Replace contentious form template with painstakingly created, non-tendentious message that accurately describes the status of this page User:Radiant! 08:30, 10 October 2006 [17] debate on talk has died down and there's general agreement with Pascal's statements User:Dan100 19:08, 16 November 2006 [18] Added proposed tag User:SMcCandlish 19:46, 22 November 2006 [19] Added Disputedpolicy tag User:Centrx 19:15, 28 November 2006[20] Removed Disputedpolicy tag User:Thivierr 04:37, 27 December 2006 [21] rv - Actually there's lots of detractors. Call a straw poll, if you want to see how many. Note: this only became a "guideline" because you skipped that step User:Radiant! 09:31, 27 December 2006 Removed Disputedpolicy tag[22] "Guidelines are not created through polling or voting, but rather through describing actual practice" User:Dan100 12:37, 5 January 2007 [23] Proposal tag added "When on earth do people think consensus was gained for this??" User:Vanished user 08:12, 21 February 2007 [24] Added underdiscussion tag

GUIDELINE: Wikipedia:Television episodes

• Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Episodes and characters
• Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Episodes and characters 2 Case Closed 10 March 2008

Edit wars over content and tagging on main page

11:01, 16 April 2007 Radiant! Added Guideline tag [25] Tagged as a guideline after 24 edits by Radiant, based on Wikipedia talk:Centralized discussion/Television episodes (see below) 18:11, 16 April 2007 Kevin Murray removes guideline tag stating, "This page was never advertised as a proposal thus did not receive adequate attention from a braod range of editors. Can not claim to have consensus"[26] Next edit adds proposal tag. 08:07, 17 April 2007 Radiant! Adds guideline tag back. "Kevin, that's incorrect. It was part of WP:CENT"[27] 14:24, 17 April 2007 Kevin Murray adds proposal tag back "I think that we need a clearer measurement of consensus before rushing the change in tag. What is the hurry?"[28] 14:43, 17 April 2007 Radiant! Adds guideline tag back. "Exactly, and that's why you shouldn't be changing a long-standing guideline into a proposal. What's the hurry to deprecate this?" 15:01, 17 April 2007 "I don't see a precedent for having the guideline tag. Please show consensus at the talk page"[29] 15:04, 17 April 2007 Radiant! Adds guideline tag back. [What's so special about a tag? READ THIS REVISION: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Television_episodes&diff=39838875&oldid=38560294] In which User:InShaneee wrote: A consensus was reached to accept the guidelines below. --InShaneee 05:02, 16 February 2006 (UTC) 15:41, 17 April 2007 Page protected[30] 18:53, 19 April 2007 Black Falcon "given the edit summaries of the previous three edits, this guideline is disputed" {{disputedtag}} [31] 18:55, 19 April 2007 PhilKnight "Revert - clear consensus on talk page" 16:06, 20 April 2007 Black Falcon "rm {{Notabilityguide}} ... ok, then, let's just state that it's a guideline and leave it at that" 22:34, 10 May 2007 White Cat "not a "guideline" yet (I see no agreement (something like a poll in talk). Looks more of an essay to me." 22:39, 10 May 2007 Minderbinder "since when does every guideline have to have a poll that can be produced on demand?" 22:46, 10 May 2007 Juhachi "Is a guideline: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Television_episodes&diff=39838875&oldid=38560294" 16:53, 11 May 2007 Sceptre "+under discussion tag" 21:12, 17 May 2007 Ned Scott rm odd tag.. since when are we not discussing these things? 15:16, 8 June 2007 Gwinva {{underdiscussion}} "under discussion tag: let people know we're working on expanding and enforcing it" 11:37, 12 June 2007 Gwinva removed own tag 02:27, 21 December 2007 Johnleemk {{Disputedtag}} "{Disputedtag}} - discussion on talk is not indicative on consensus supporting this guideline" 02:32, 21 December 2007 Ned Scott "can you actually dispute anything said here? or are you mad about our existing policies that say that articles cannot be just plot?" 03:57, 21 December 2007 Stevage {{Disputedtag}} 06:23, 21 December 2007 Jack Merridew "rm disputed tag as there is no relevant discussion on the talk page by this user" 06:34, 21 December 2007 Ursasapien {{Disputedtag}} 08:54, 21 December 2007 Catchpole "remove guideline status per talk" 09:38, 21 December 2007 Jack Merridew "talk is far from concluded and there's an ArbCom case on this at the moment; restoring 'Guideline')" 09:59, 21 December 2007 Ursasapien "(add merge tag)" 06:32, 7 January 2008 Ursasapien "redirect per WP:BURO and WP:CREEP" 11:47, 7 January 2008 Maitch (Undid revision 182686699 by Ursasapien (talk) vandal) 11:52, 7 January 2008 Ursasapien Redirect per consensus on talk page 12:09, 7 January 2008 Bignole (first, I don't see consensus (seek an Admin if you disagree) second, you don't blank guideline pages like that you keep them as historical record) 18:04, 7 January 2008 Catchpole no consensus for this guideline per talk[32] 18:11, 7 January 2008 TNN No.[33] 05:31, 9 January 2008 Ursasapien "Change to disambig page with link to rejected guideline" [34] 05:40, 9 January 2008 Collectonian "(Reverted 1 edit by Ursasapien; Rv; there was NOT a clear consensus there, indeed the majority of remarks opposed. using TW" 05:59, 9 January 2008 Ursasapien "Revert to revision 183122570 dated 2008-01-09 05:31:35 by Ursasapien using popups"[35] 06:02, 9 January 2008 Paul730 (Undid revision 183125845 by Ursasapien (talk)) 00:19, 12 January 2008 Torc2 There's no discussion about this being a policy. It isn't.[36] 00:21, 12 January 2008 Wikipedical adds {{Disputedtag}} "the tag relates to guidelines too" 13:08, 13 January 2008 Pixelface " removed mention of WP:N. There appears to be no consensus that each individual episode must be notable on its own" 13:10, 13 January 2008 Pixelface "Dealing with problem articles: removed this section. this guideline is not a notability guideline" 13:22, 13 January 2008 Pixelface "Reverted 2 edits by Pixelface; Rv; do not edit without actual consensus. using TW" 20:10, 16 January 2008 Pixelface "adding merge tag" 22:09, 16 January 2008 Ckatz "Reverted good faith edits by Pixelface; Removing merge tag until discussion on talk page is complete - see appropriate section for details." 12:59, 6 July 2008 Sceptre {{disputetag}} {{mergetag}} "RM; no consensus, talk has been dead for six weeks" 12:13, 9 August 2008 Colonel Warden "Section on scope to clarify the meaning of episode"[37] 15:12, 9 August 2008 Collectonian "Undid revision 230797528 by Colonel Warden (talk) rv; no consensus for that addition and self-serving edit)" 23:19, 14 December 2008 Pixelface "added demote tag, see talk" 00:26, 5 January 2009 Kim Bruning "Since there's clearly no consensus on this, it's not a guideline. see talk" 00:32, 5 January 2009 Bignole "Undid revision 261994700 by Kim Bruning (talk) there was no consensus to demote, which means it stays where it is)" 00:37, 5 January 2009 Bignole "(there was no consensus for change in any direction, so it reverts back to its original state. The only clear idea from that discussion was that we can dismantle if FICT becomes official)"

Guideline: Notability (books)

46 editors contributed on the talk page, 28 editors on the main page, before radiant tagged as guideline in February 2006.

PROPOSED: Notability (fiction)

34 editors have edited page 342 times since November XX, before this date, there had been no activity since XX XX

Of the 34 editors:

9 of these editors only added a single, one time edit,

4 editors had only two edits.

10 editors had 3 to 7 edits.

5 editors had 10 to 14 edits.

Only 6 editors had 22 to 51 edits, a majority of 63.45 % of the edits

Combining those 11 editors with 10 to 51 edits, those editors were responsible for 80.11% of the edits.

Full edit history of main page

Editor Date Number of edits View Randomran (12,184 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: tightening this up) 2009 01 19, 17:16 Bignole (12,553 bytes) (→Articles that don't meet the inclusion criteria: it can be, it isn't already if you have no proof) 2009 01 19, 14:59 Guest9999 (12,554 bytes) (no longer semi protected) 2009 01 18, 19:23 A Nobody (12,586 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: word choice) 2009 01 17, 14:41 7 Gavin.collins (12,581 bytes) (Addtional guidance on splits in accordance with WP:BK - see WT:FICT#FICT in practise in the long run for discussion) 2009 01 15, 11:56 Randomran m (12,100 bytes) (grammar fixes and such) 2009 01 14, 21:40 Randomran (12,050 bytes) (clarifying two important things: (1) that real-world coverage can now come from self published resources, and (2) that meeting WP:N is enough, regardless of whether it meets WP:FICT.) 2009 01 14, 21:25 Deckiller m (11,848 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: clarification) 2009 01 13, 21:35 Phil Sandifer (11,806 bytes) (Tighten the second prong a bit. I let it bloat out rather a lot.) 2009 01 13, 21:25 HooperBandP m (12,008 bytes) (deckiller, this was already discussed a while back and agree upon until accepted due to users being led here by the notability template not paying attention to another template and not catching that) 2009 01 13, 20:13 4 Deckiller m (11,998 bytes) (I disagree. there is a heading at the top that clearly states that this is a proposed guideline, making that an excessive markup) 2009 01 13, 18:20 HooperBandP m (12,008 bytes) (this was incorrectly removed) 2009 01 13, 14:51 Deckiller m (11,998 bytes) ("could" include? it -does- include) 2009 01 12, 18:42 A Nobody (12,004 bytes) (→Independence: word placement) 2009 01 12, 18:42 A Nobody (12,002 bytes) (→Reliability: grammar) 2009 01 12, 18:41 Protonk m (12,002 bytes) (→See also: balance, since VGSCOPE is a guideline.) 2009 01 12, 18:41 Deckiller m (12,002 bytes) (removing a huge redundancy; "fictional element" is all-encompassing) 2009 01 12, 18:40 A Nobody (12,042 bytes) (→Sources and notability: word choice) 2009 01 12, 18:40 A Nobody (12,036 bytes) (→See also: added for balance) 2009 01 12, 18:40 Deckiller m (12,011 bytes) (→Secondary sources are necessary for notability: simple solution) 2009 01 12, 18:38 Deckiller m (12,142 bytes) (→Secondary sources are necessary for notability: note) 2009 01 12, 18:38 Protonk m (12,040 bytes) (→Footnotes: rm footnotes for now. not used.) 2009 01 12, 18:23 Deckiller m (12,069 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: copy-edit; "notable work" is one of the three prongs, so it shouldn't be mentioned twice.) 2009 01 12, 18:21 Deckiller m (12,033 bytes) (at -> in) 2009 01 12, 18:14 Deckiller m (12,033 bytes) (the last clause of the lead is basic common sense; plus, it turns the sentence into quite the snake) 2009 01 12, 18:07 Deckiller m (12,078 bytes) (tweak) 2009 01 12, 18:04 Deckiller m (12,072 bytes) (copy-edit lead -- proposed has no need to be bolded, as our readers can read; couple typos left over from the constant editing; minor trimming of redundancies. important and significant are the same) 2009 01 12, 18:03 Peregrine Fisher (11,888 bytes) (revert, yeah some people dispute this) 2009 01 12, 08:23 2 Jack Merridew (11,909 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: anyone dispute that independent sources are better?) 2009 01 12, 08:22 3 Sephiroth BCR (11,888 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: sounds weird otherwise) 2009 01 12, 07:26 Randomran (11,858 bytes) (→Articles that don't meet the inclusion criteria: softening language from deletion) 2009 01 11, 21:56 Phil Sandifer (11,923 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: Try to take "important" out of the second prong.) 2009 01 11, 21:33 51 Anti-inclusion A cleaning up of the stupid cruft and procedural edifice over RFA is probably due Phil Sandifer (11,946 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: Let's make it perfectly clear what we don't want, in fact.) 2009 01 11, 19:48 Phil Sandifer (11,931 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: Clarify that what is needed is an argument, not an assertion) 2009 01 11, 19:46 Randomran (11,749 bytes) (revert to Phil Sandifer's revision. this prong needs to be more specific, not less.) 2009 01 11, 18:28 Masem (11,735 bytes) (Reverted 1 edit by Gavin.collins; I see no consensus beyond your push for this to change over. (TW)) 2009 01 11, 12:35 Gavin.collins (11,103 bytes) (Eliminating "Importance within the fictional work", and spliting "Significant coverage" from "Real-world coverage" per WT:FICT#Three-pronged test for Elements of Fiction) 2009 01 11, 12:22 Sephiroth BCR (11,735 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: bit more precise) 2009 01 11, 10:01 Jinnai (11,691 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: those ideas are too specific and do not incorperate items like weapons, mechs, world architecture, etc.) 2009 01 11, 06:01 41 Anti-inclusion Wikipedia is not a dumping ground for trivial in-universe information and as such lists need to demonstrate some validy to enhancing the work to a general audience. Phil Sandifer (11,714 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: Tighten the second prong, including better relating it to the other two.) 2009 01 11, 05:20 Deckiller m (11,579 bytes) (redundancies) 2009 01 11, 04:54 Phil Sandifer (11,588 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: Let's both shorten and tighten this.) 2009 01 10, 19:38 Randomran (11,659 bytes) (rv. wording needs to be more specific, not more general. it's already quite vague.) 2009 01 10, 18:15 Bignole (11,858 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: fix) 2009 01 10, 18:01 Jinnai (11,859 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: more general wording to cover broad aspect that is all of fiction better) 2009 01 10, 17:59 Inclusionist (11,700 bytes) (→See also: Wikipedia:Do not call things cruft) 2009 01 10, 17:01 1 Gavin.collins (11,659 bytes) (Articles that don't meet the inclusion criteria - seperate section) 2009 01 10, 12:36 Gavin.collins (11,660 bytes) (Systemic bias - convert to "Articles that don't meet the inclusion criteria") 2009 01 10, 12:34 Kww (11,636 bytes) (Undid revision 263092897 by Jinnai (talk)You need to read that over again. "Elements" is exactly what is meant) 2009 01 10, 02:07 1 Jinnai (11,641 bytes) (→Independence: this wording would seem to make the use of those items be excluded from the main article, which doesn't seem right if theyc an work for elements of a work) 2009 01 10, 01:39 Phil Sandifer (11,636 bytes) (→Systemic bias: Clarify for Gavin.) 2009 01 9, 22:58 Phil Sandifer (11,605 bytes) (→Systemic bias: I wrote that version of the section, and even I think it's too long. :)) 2009 01 9, 22:18 Reyk (12,775 bytes) (→Systemic bias: - wording) 2009 01 9, 21:55 HooperBandP (12,768 bytes) (rv, been there for a while. Its just trying to help the reader understand the reason for the systematic bias.) 2009 01 9, 21:30 Gavin.collins (12,775 bytes) (Weasel words, surely?) 2009 01 9, 15:27 Bignole (12,768 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: tweak) 2009 01 9, 12:47 Bignole (12,813 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: requiring it in a specific place is a little creepy, any non-trivial real world content (which might be characterization, or might be concept development)) 2009 01 9, 12:46 Jack Merridew (12,840 bytes) (tidy format; no content changes) 2009 01 9, 11:20 Jack Merridew (12,823 bytes) (restoring this version: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ANotability_(fiction)&diff=262825723&oldid=262705672) 2009 01 9, 11:14 Gavin.collins (10,917 bytes) (Availability of research - delete meaningless section) 2009 01 9, 10:16 Protonk m (11,647 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: comma placed following discussion (lol, never thought I would write that)) 2009 01 8, 23:54 36 Protonk (11,646 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: link significant to that "definition/example" in the GNG. may be a little clunky, check to see.) 2009 01 8, 22:20 A Nobody (11,610 bytes) (→Secondary sources are necessary for notability: word choice) 2009 01 8, 22:10 A Nobody (11,608 bytes) (→Secondary sources are necessary for notability: better grammar) 2009 01 8, 22:09 Masem (11,608 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: adding a brief example of what "editioral decision" may mean (merging of a three-prong passer per consensus)) 2009 01 8, 22:08 Phil Sandifer (11,383 bytes) (→Availability of research) 2009 01 8, 21:50 Randomran (11,266 bytes) (→Systemic bias: condensing it down to what we need to look for, and how we should respond) 2009 01 8, 21:17 37 David Fuchs (12,111 bytes) (→Systemic bias: basically I just took the rather long-winded explanation on why bias occurs and cut into (i think) a simpler chunk; check the "correlation" part, not sure if I kept the meaning) 2009 01 8, 21:06 Phil Sandifer (12,559 bytes) (Found the old systemic bias section. Putting it back (somewhat edited) to deal with Jules's complaints. Probably needs cutting, as this is from one of the old wordy versions.) 2009 01 8, 21:01 Randomran (10,651 bytes) (assume good faith applies to editors, not articles. sometimes articles should be deleted. there is no King Triton controversy - it meets the guideline as is.) 2009 01 8, 07:16 Jinnai (10,913 bytes) (added a line due to the recent King Triton conteiversy) 2009 01 8, 03:23 Sgeureka (10,651 bytes) (→See also: add WP:TV MOS of course) 2009 01 7, 21:51 Gavin.collins (10,540 bytes) (→Independence) 2009 01 5, 23:29 Gavin.collins (10,541 bytes) (Independence - substitution of reference to blogs with wider reference to WP:SPS) 2009 01 5, 23:23 Randomran (10,471 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: removing semi-colons and run-on descriptions) 2009 01 5, 21:03 Protonk m (11,013 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: spacing) 2009 01 5, 02:13 Sgeureka (11,010 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: avoid "larger topic" because "topic" can refer to one article (as used here) or a group of articles (as e.g. WP:FTs and WP:GTs)) 2009 01 5, 00:21 Phil Sandifer (11,000 bytes) (→Primary sources are insufficient for notability) 2009 01 4, 23:58 David Fuchs (10,952 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: rming independence bit, which is mentioned in its own good section) 2009 01 4, 22:02 Bignole (11,359 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: better word) 2009 01 4, 21:06 Sgeureka (11,359 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: avoid "we", this guideline will not only be used in AfDs, but should also help decide when to spinout) 2009 01 4, 20:41 Phil Sandifer (11,346 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: Up-merge the two footnotes) 2009 01 4, 16:58 Phil Sandifer (12,340 bytes) (→Primary sources are insufficient for notability: Clarify to deal with Gavin's objections) 2009 01 4, 16:29 Guest9999 (12,199 bytes) (add line from Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not) 2009 01 4, 06:43 Guest9999 (12,094 bytes) (this won't be a policy) 2009 01 4, 06:37 Phil Sandifer (12,100 bytes) (I think too much was cut here. I may try an attempt to merge the footnotes up, as I think it's a good idea, but this lost too much.) 2009 01 4, 04:49 David Fuchs (10,284 bytes) (since we're talking about moving this forward, removing the notes; I think I've struck the balance of retaining the footnote content and removing redundant references to the GNG, et al) 2009 01 4, 04:38 EEMIV m (12,100 bytes) (→Sources and notability) 2009 01 3, 23:06 EEMIV m (12,099 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: list within list) 2009 01 3, 23:02 EEMIV m (12,100 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability) 2009 01 3, 23:00 Randomran m (12,105 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: changing this, for consistency) 2009 01 3, 17:10 Randomran (12,132 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: WP:BOLDly adding what importance is not, if only to stimulate discussion. I think most people would agree with this. But if not, I'd like to know why.) 2009 01 3, 17:07 Phil Sandifer (12,090 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: Small edit, cutting some verbiage and an episode example I'm unconvinced by (I'm not sure we'd ever delete an episode that meets prongs 1 and 3)) 06:04, 2 01 2009 Masem (12,203 bytes) (Reverted good faith edits by 89.240.166.198; See talk page, we're working on this. (TW)) 2009 01 3, 16:50 89.240.166.198 (Talk) (12,195 bytes) (Notabillity extemists are ignoring this. Why bother) 2009 01 2, 06:03 Protonk (12,203 bytes) (Typo + add sentence about coverage from the sources we describe below. See the "blogs w/ credibility" talk page. Rv as needed, but fix the typo if you do. :)) 2009 01 1, 18:52 Protonk m (12,082 bytes) (→Primary sources are insufficient for notability: .) 2008 12 29, 20:14 Randomran (12,081 bytes) (→Primary sources are insufficient for notability: rm - not going to come from primary sources) 2008 12 26, 23:27 Malkinann m (12,198 bytes) (remove abbreviation - WP:LISTS -> Wikipedia's list guideline) 2008 12 26, 22:32 Malkinann (12,171 bytes) (→Primary sources are insufficient for notability: Information about the development of the work can assist in demonstrating notability through the three-prong test.) 2008 12 26, 22:31 Gavin.collins (12,055 bytes) (Refer to WP:LISTS rather than personal opinion) 2008 12 22, 09:00 Malkinann (12,495 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: remove abbreviation) 2008 12 21, 00:28 Randomran (12,423 bytes) (boldly adding something about lists.) 2008 12 19, 22:27 Sephiroth BCR m (11,922 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: unnecessary colon) 2008 12 18, 01:33 David Fuchs (11,923 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: first off, punctuation issues; don't you guys write articles? secondly, cleanup of the godforsaken refs; this should be breezier and keep the same sense) 2008 12 18, 01:27 David Fuchs (13,134 bytes) (Undid revision 258674833 by Jinnai (talk) KISS principle; GA and FA reviewers make that call, but it's not set in stone) 2008 12 18, 01:19 Jinnai (14,122 bytes) (Reverted 1 edit by Randomran; It is only indirectly about GA/FA as it pertains to splitting off list articles. The FA part is context. (TW)) 2008 12 17, 23:44 Randomran m (13,134 bytes) (agree with Protonk. Discuss it before adding this footnote. This seems to be off topic infomration about FAs and splits.) 2008 12 17, 23:39 Jinnai (14,122 bytes) (Undid revision 258583011 by Protonk (talk) - reverted - disagrree see discussion) 2008 12 17, 23:35 Protonk (13,134 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: rw, fix some typos. Took out the last sentence (the one about less than reliable sources) because it seemed to be a better fit in the section below. Is it?) 2008 12 17, 19:44 Protonk (13,301 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: rm third footnote per discussion on talk page. Seems to be instruction creep.) 2008 12 17, 15:03 Jinnai (14,289 bytes) (footnote on when and why splits are made) 2008 12 17, 01:48 Phil Sandifer (13,301 bytes) (Hence "Developer blogs," which specifies that we're talking about creators.) 2008 12 17, 00:55 Gavin.collins (13,304 bytes) (Undid revision 258424081 by Phil Sandifer (talk) The sources need to be reliable - any old blog won't do) 2008 12 17, 00:52 Phil Sandifer (13,301 bytes) (Something like the Grey's Anatomy Writers Blog can be used, I think, to provide real-world perspective.) 2008 12 16, 20:41 Gavin.collins (13,304 bytes) (Sources which are not independent must be reliable, as self-published sources like blogs may not be used where the source is author, publisher or promoter of the work itself) 2008 12 16, 20:28 Randomran (13,301 bytes) (→Sources and notability: tweak, so it doesn't sound like we're throwing reliability/independence out the window) 2008 12 16, 19:19 Jinnai m (13,188 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability) 2008 12 16, 19:11 Randomran (13,176 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: some WP:BOLD changes for clarity. if i went too far, I'd ask to try for a copy-edit or partial revert, and then discussion.) 2008 12 16, 18:38 Randomran m (13,290 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: moving footnotes, adding mini-headings) 2008 12 16, 18:25 Masem (13,219 bytes) (Had an embedded ref tag, and needed a reflist section) 2008 12 16, 15:19 Phil Sandifer (13,716 bytes) (Or not, since apparently I can't work ref tags.) 2008 12 16, 15:12 Phil Sandifer (13,201 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability) 2008 12 16, 15:11 Phil Sandifer (13,203 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: Per wise comments on talk, killing one section and footnoting two.) 2008 12 16, 15:10 Malkinann (13,716 bytes) (→Availability of real world perspective: remove abbreviation) 2008 12 15, 19:55 Gavin.collins (13,679 bytes) (→Importance of the fictional work) 2008 12 15, 19:27 Padillah (13,972 bytes) (Rm extra word.) 2008 12 15, 18:54 1 Phil Sandifer (13,975 bytes) (→Availability of real world perspective: Trim a bit, though this section is not, to my mind, as over-wordy as the others.) 2008 12 15, 16:29 Gavin.collins (9,693 bytes) (Its déjà vu all over again - please bring proposals to the talk page, as the additions are too long winded) 2008 12 15, 16:29 Phil Sandifer (13,941 bytes) (→Importance within the fictional work: Trim section while retaining key aspects that help justify and establish what this prong means) 2008 12 15, 16:25 Phil Sandifer (14,179 bytes) (→Importance of the fictional work: Shorten section while retaining the justification that I think is important here.) 2008 12 15, 16:19 Phil Sandifer (14,655 bytes) (There may be some trimming here, but I think the actual working through of these issues is an important part of why the guideline works.) 2008 12 15, 16:14 Gavin.collins (9,693 bytes) (Undid revision 258134280 by Phil Sandifer (talk) Prefer short and sweet version - it is too verbose) 2008 12 15, 16:08 Phil Sandifer (14,655 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: Re-insert three removed sections that I think are, on balance, important for the guideline's function. They probably need some editing.) 2008 12 15, 15:49 Phil Sandifer (9,693 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: Two changes here - one clarifying, and one removing something that is not true for the purposes of inclusion.) 2008 12 15, 15:38 Randomran (9,839 bytes) (Undid revision 257903586 by Metatron's Cube (talk)) 2008 12 14, 17:51 Metatron's Cube m (9,731 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability) 2008 12 14, 13:42 6 Drilnoth m (9,839 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: Capitalization.) 2008 12 12, 15:37 1 David Fuchs m (9,839 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: we're talking about coverage, and then we switch to 'impact'; modifying noun) 2008 12 12, 14:13 Gavin.collins (9,843 bytes) (WT:FICT#Three-pronged test for notability: Real-world coverage should be more that just listing the notable works where the fictional element appears) 2008 12 12, 10:13 Randomran (9,727 bytes) (→Primary sources are insufficient for notability: adding word, as per talk page.) 2008 12 12, 03:25 Reyk (9,718 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: - adding bit) 2008 12 12, 02:50 6 David Fuchs (9,645 bytes) (→Sources and notability: cleanup; adding NPOV mention (might as well) and grammar) 2008 12 12, 02:47 Reyk m (9,673 bytes) (copyed) 2008 12 12, 02:43 Gavin.collins (9,672 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability) 2008 12 12, 01:03 Gavin.collins (9,691 bytes) (Undid revision 257392779 by Metatron's Cube (talk) See WT:FICT#Importance within the fictional work) 2008 12 12, 01:02 Metatron's Cube m (9,581 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability) 2008 12 12, 00:57 David Fuchs m (9,691 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: double spacing? argh) 2008 12 11, 19:23 David Fuchs (9,693 bytes) (→Specific tendencies: rm per general agreement on talk; whoever wants to make an essay if you think it fits that better, go ahead) 2008 12 11, 19:23 Randomran m (13,361 bytes) (→Primary sources are insufficient for notability: partial revert - a comparison is always subjective. unless it can be cited to a scholar, it's WP:OR.) 2008 12 11, 15:50 Phil Sandifer (13,371 bytes) (→Primary sources are insufficient for notability: Pair of small changes to moderate tone a bit.) 2008 12 11, 14:09 EEMIV (13,304 bytes) (→Primary sources are insufficient for notability) 2008 12 10, 23:53 7 Protonk (13,273 bytes) (→Primary sources are insufficient for notability: shorten and tone down for phil. Attempt to make clear that this isn't a content guideline.) 2008 12 10, 23:47 Phil Sandifer (13,422 bytes) (I don't think there's consensus for this on talk. Quite the opposite, really.) 2008 12 10, 22:13 Gavin.collins (9,752 bytes) (Removed the section "Specific tendancies" as there is no guideline or policy that supports the inclusion of non-notable elements, particularly those that individually or jointly fail WP:NOT#PLOT) 2008 12 10, 22:11 30 Gavin.collins (13,422 bytes) (WP:FICT#Three-pronged test for notability Strengthening the "realisty" test, by distinguishing between trivial and non-trivial real-world content) 2008 12 10, 13:47 Sgeureka m (13,300 bytes) (typo) 2008 12 9, 23:38 HooperBandP m (13,302 bytes) (this should be kept until accepted/denied for clarification purposes) 2008 12 9, 23:07 Kraftlos m (13,287 bytes) (rs link) 2008 12 9, 20:58 2 Kraftlos (13,268 bytes) (I think sources need to be mentioned along with avoiding a plot summary) 2008 12 9, 20:57 EEMIV m (13,236 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability) 2008 12 9, 18:53 EEMIV m (13,237 bytes) 2008 12 9, 18:51 EEMIV (13,238 bytes) (a theme is a generalized notion or effect; although articulated wholly within fiction, they have a concrete relevance outside fiction. including it here I think is a bit muddy) 2008 12 9, 18:48 Protonk m (13,247 bytes) (→Characters: subject verb) 2008 12 9, 18:44 Protonk (13,226 bytes) (→See also: reformat see also.) 2008 12 9, 18:37 Protonk (13,175 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: Add the "we don't want to be part of the battle between good and evil over fancruft" caveat. RW first para to emphasise that the work must be notable.) 2008 12 9, 18:29 Protonk (12,965 bytes) (rw lede to move from potential to imperfect. note that sourcing has to exist now but doesn't have to be in the article now. Remove CONTENT caveat--not necessary and makes for an awkward sentence) 2008 12 9, 18:19 Protonk (12,996 bytes) (shorten nutshell. much better this time.) 2008 12 9, 18:16 Protonk (13,160 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: some minor rewording. change article --> subject where it merits it. change last para) 2008 12 9, 17:22 Randomran (13,191 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: adding/modifying statement, based on talk page.) 2008 12 9, 17:10 Randomran (13,024 bytes) (rv. discuss before making a significant change such as this.) 2008 12 9, 16:44 Masem (13,141 bytes) (Undid revision 256836648 by Gavin.collins (talk) Notability does not limit article content, this section is appropriate) 2008 12 9, 14:45 Gavin.collins (13,024 bytes) (Non-notable elements should not be covered at all as they fail WP:NOT) 2008 12 9, 14:42 Sgeureka (13,141 bytes) (BOLD change: a subject can't contain information (only an article can), keep it deliberately vague *where* the info exists because adding the required RWI renders this pronge mute) 2008 12 9, 13:19 Reyk (13,139 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: - making it explicit that all three prongs are necessary) 2008 12 9, 01:48 David Fuchs (13,126 bytes) (Undid revision 256662510 by Jinnai (talk) shouldn't be linking to essays to make a point) 2008 12 8, 18:38 Jinnai m (13,168 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability) 2008 12 8, 18:18 Jinnai m (13,126 bytes) (semi-protected notice) 2008 12 8, 18:12 Magioladitis m (Protected Wikipedia:Notability (fiction): Vandalism against recent release. This page should be move protected ([move=sysop] (indefinite))) 2008 12 8, 15:01 1 Sephiroth BCR m (moved HĀG GĖR? to Wikipedia:Notability (fiction) over redirect: reverting page-move vandalism) 2008 12 8, 11:40 5 Doctor Rosenberg m (moved Wikipedia:Notability (fiction) to HĀG GĖR?: Got Gŏt ĤĂGGÊR?) 2008 12 8, 11:33 1 Randomran (13,094 bytes) (WP:POTENTIAL is probably more useful than WP:PERFECT -- I think this gets at the underlying idea, right?) 2008 12 8, 05:57 Malkinann m (12,898 bytes) (moving IMPERFECT from the lead to later in the article) 2008 12 8, 05:55 22 Malkinann m (12,898 bytes) (→Individual works: WP:MERGE) 2008 12 8, 03:55 Malkinann (12,885 bytes) (readd WP:IMPERFECT to lead) 2008 12 8, 03:54 Sephiroth BCR (12,781 bytes) (→Other fictional objects: objects sounds weird for some reason) 2008 12 7, 23:49 Protonk (12,780 bytes) (template) 2008 12 7, 23:40 Jinnai m (12,743 bytes) (→See also) 2008 12 7, 23:38 Jinnai m (12,742 bytes) (→See also) 2008 12 7, 23:38 Jinnai m (12,740 bytes) (→See also) 2008 12 7, 23:37 Protonk (12,675 bytes) (→Notes: rm notes since walled garden fn was taken out.) 2008 12 7, 23:22 Jinnai (12,697 bytes) (→Sources and notability) 2008 12 7, 23:16 Protonk (12,715 bytes) (rw nutshell to reflect editing. It is probably too long now. Dropped the "everything must meet GNG" sentence and the "undue" sentence but explained the test.) 2008 12 7, 23:13 Jinnai (12,486 bytes) (→Specific tendencies) 2008 12 7, 23:07 Protonk (12,496 bytes) (rw lead to conform to edits below. we should expland it just a little more to include the sources and specific tendencies parts.) 2008 12 7, 23:07 Jinnai m (12,516 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: removed 2 redudant links, added 1) 2008 12 7, 23:02 Jinnai m (12,516 bytes) 2008 12 7, 22:59 David Fuchs (12,520 bytes) (→Specific tendencies: cleanup; there was a lot of redundant content so i put all that in the opening of the section (follow the guidelines, PLOT and all)) 2008 12 7, 18:11 Jinnai m (12,704 bytes) (→Individual works within a series) 2008 12 7, 06:36 Reyk m (12,704 bytes) (tyop) 2008 12 7, 05:24 Jinnai m (12,704 bytes) (→Individual works within a series) 2008 12 7, 05:19 Jinnai m (12,721 bytes) (→Individual works within a series) 2008 12 7, 05:18 Jinnai (12,683 bytes) (→Episodes: attempted to rework the section to be shorted and broader) 2008 12 7, 05:15 Jinnai m (13,216 bytes) (→Primary sources are insufficient for notability) 2008 12 7, 05:01 Jinnai m (13,216 bytes) (→Primary sources are insufficient for notability) 2008 12 7, 05:00 ArglebargleIV (13,225 bytes) (→Primary sources are insufficient for notability: spelling) 2008 12 7, 00:33 1 Sgeureka (13,225 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: ce) 2008 12 6, 23:08 5 Malkinann (13,239 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: remove abbreviations) 2008 12 6, 22:39 Bignole (13,142 bytes) (→Sources and notability: still needs to be reliable to some degree, rearranging the order) 2008 12 6, 22:06 11 Randomran (13,142 bytes) (→Use of sources: semi-bold rewrite of "sources" section, based on a few simultaneous discussions. see talk page.) 2008 12 6, 21:59 Randomran (12,818 bytes) (→Primary sources: summarizing) 2008 12 6, 21:31 Reyk m (13,766 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: - copyed) 2008 12 6, 21:28 David Fuchs (13,764 bytes) (tweaks) 2008 12 6, 19:43 14 David Fuchs (13,743 bytes) (pasting in more concise version; one issue about newb accessibility remains, trying to fix on talk) 2008 12 6, 17:13 Jinnai m (17,806 bytes) (→Primary sources) 2008 12 6, 05:06 Jinnai (17,813 bytes) (→Primary sources) 2008 12 6, 05:06 Jinnai (17,848 bytes) (→Primary sources: made it more clear that use of primary sources for plot is to define notability to help distinquish use of primary sources for verifiability) 2008 12 6, 05:05 Phil Sandifer (17,628 bytes) (→Primary sources: Rm material unrelated to notability) 2008 12 6, 03:28 Jinnai (18,233 bytes) (→Primary sources) 2008 12 5, 16:56 Jinnai (18,214 bytes) (→Primary sources) 2008 12 5, 16:55 Protonk (17,628 bytes) (→Use of sources: move old section into intro. This suggestion relates to sourcing in general.) 2008 12 5, 04:59 Protonk (17,627 bytes) (→Reviews as sources: rm sentence that doesn't make sense w/ the other part removed) 2008 12 5, 04:20 Protonk (17,839 bytes) (remove significant portion of this per Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(fiction)#Another_try_on_reviews_and_sourcing.) 2008 12 5, 04:19 Phil Sandifer (19,219 bytes) (→Reviews as sources) 2008 12 4, 19:49 Phil Sandifer (19,052 bytes) (→#2: Importance within the fictional work) 2008 12 4, 19:44 Bignole (18,877 bytes) (→Reviews as sources: "significant" is subject, who gets that call? having a Wiki articles doesn't make their viewpoint notable, it makes their website notable) 2008 12 4, 12:46 Phil Sandifer (18,889 bytes) (→Self-published sources: New attempt at section) 2008 12 4, 06:29 Kevin Murray (18,417 bytes) (→Self-published sources: correct typo (?)) 2008 12 4, 05:52 Bignole (18,421 bytes) (tweaking, there seems to be more emphasis on rating the source as "important", as opposed to the type of information as "important") 2008 12 4, 02:36 Kevin Murray (18,368 bytes) (Revert to Bignole's better wording) 2008 12 4, 00:16 Protonk (18,378 bytes) (Undid revision by Bignole undone. We mean notable as in "their article is a blue link" they are notable for inclusion. A change to that should be talked out first.) 2008 12 3, 23:23 Bignole (18,368 bytes) (Being bold again. Who says these sources are "notable" when you just said that they typically aren't considered reliable. Changed "notable" to "noted" (i.e. they're known for them, but not notable)) 2008 12 3, 23:19 Randomran m (18,378 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: "highlighting" the summary sentence) 2008 12 3, 23:14 Bignole (18,374 bytes) (→Use of sources: Being a bit bold. The primary standards are not "strict", but the "strictest" standards the guide has are often hard to satisfy) 2008 12 3, 23:11 Randomran (18,371 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability: that's the third factor) 2008 12 3, 22:35 Bignole (18,371 bytes) (→#1: Importance of the fictional work: typo) 2008 12 3, 22:32 Phil Sandifer (18,373 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability) 2008 12 3, 22:07 Randomran m (18,429 bytes) (→#1: Importance of the fictional work: remove fragment... feel free to re-add it if you know where this sentence was supposed to go.) 2008 12 2, 17:24 Randomran (18,505 bytes) (re-adding statement that reflects actual practice, and other consensus policies) 2008 12 2, 17:23 DGG (18,419 bytes) (→#1: Importance of the fictional work: cpyed) 2008 12 2, 14:56 DGG (18,643 bytes) (→#1: Importance of the fictional work: cpyed) 2008 12 2, 14:52 DGG (18,575 bytes) (this is also part of the dispute. This does not necessarily apply to elements) 2008 12 2, 14:12 GlassCobra (18,650 bytes) (Undid revision 255389851 by Gavin.collins <- this seems to be a large part of the contention, needs to be discussed more thoroughly) 2008 12 2, 10:25 1 Gavin.collins (18,650 bytes) (Three-pronged test for notability - substituting the vague adjective "substantial" with real-world) 2008 12 2, 09:23 Randomran (18,650 bytes) (→Three-pronged test for notability) 2008 12 2, 06:31 Jinnai (18,764 bytes) (Undid revision 255338657 David Fuchs (talk) Actually it is true. This can perhaps be incorperated better but should remain.) 2008 12 2, 04:38 David Fuchs (18,627 bytes) (Undid revision 255337933 by Jinnai (talk) not necessarily true, and is usually brought up at WT:VG; let's keep it simple) 2008 12 2, 02:31 Jinnai (18,764 bytes) (→Episodes: similar tendcies with games) 2008 12 2, 02:26 Randomran (18,627 bytes) (→#3: Availability of real world perspective: another copy-edit) 2008 12 2, 02:25 DGG (18,544 bytes) (→Episodes: cpyed) 2008 12 2, 02:19 DGG (18,475 bytes) (→#3: Availability of real world perspective) 2008 12 2, 02:16 Randomran (18,476 bytes) (→#2: Importance within the fictional work: another copy-edit) 2008 12 2, 02:10 DGG (18,494 bytes) (→#3: Availability of real world perspective: copyed) 2008 12 2, 01:48 DGG (18,539 bytes) (→#2: Importance within the fictional work: copyed #2) 2008 12 2, 01:45 Jinnai (18,722 bytes) (→Primary sources) 2008 12 1, 04:20 Jinnai (18,580 bytes) (→Self-published sources: rewording and expanding the 2nd paragraph for cases where incomplete/missing lists of RS are found.) 2008 12 1, 03:59 Protonk (18,502 bytes) (I'm being WP:BOLD and removing two sections which don't really apply. See my reasoning on talk. Feel free to revert but this guideline needs to be trimmed to the core.) 2008 12 1, 03:08 Protonk (22,509 bytes) (→#3: Availability of real world perspective: Rw. Removed claim about "leniency toward new subjects" which seemed like WP:CRYSTAL to me. This needs some more eyes and a ce.) 2008 12 1, 01:24 Protonk (23,001 bytes) (→See also: reflist) 2008 11 30, 23:42 Protonk (22,980 bytes) (→#2: Importance within the fictional work: relatively complete rewrite. reversed the "complexity" sentence (per talk). better explained context. tried to explain balancing. again, rv as needed.) 2008 11 30, 23:42 Protonk (22,838 bytes) (→#1: Importance of the fictional work: fix sentence borked by last revision. sorry. Also this could use an example (a specific one), but I don't want to just compare Hamlet to Bewitched.) 2008 11 30, 20:34 Protonk (22,829 bytes) (→#1: Importance of the fictional work: expand slightly. Clarify to show that sourcing and the type of sourcing is the critical element. Rm systemic bias bit.) 2008 11 30, 20:32 Phil Sandifer (22,385 bytes) (→Self-published sources: Add allusion to NPOV, which is an issue underlying the policy here.) 2008 11 30, 19:56 Protonk (22,257 bytes) (→Self-published sources: rw. check for changes. Seems to reflect what the talk page consensus is. Might need some more fleshing out. I replaced "notability" w/ the 3 prong test.) 2008 11 30, 19:51 Phil Sandifer (22,856 bytes) (→Primary sources: Reinsert point about obvious ambiguity, and reorder section) 2008 11 30, 19:01 Protonk (22,577 bytes) (→Primary sources: general rw. Shorten. Needs a ce and also needs a look to see that I haven't moved it too far to the right.) 2008 11 30, 18:19 Protonk (22,277 bytes) (→Semi-independent sources: Rw substantively. Needs a ce and also needs a check that I haven't shifted the tone too much. I did shift it closer to "caution" about nonindependent sources.) 2008 11 30, 17:58 Phil Sandifer (22,319 bytes) (I would say that unless VGSCOPE makes an explicit decision to ignore this once it hits guideline, this would be prevailing policy.) 2008 11 30, 17:47 Protonk (22,287 bytes) (→Other fictional objects: rm last clause. I'm not convinced that this guideline should say explicitly that WP:VGSCOPE should be ignored. rv if you feel this is incorrect.) 2008 11 30, 17:44 Phil Sandifer (22,319 bytes) (→Notability of episodes and elements: I think something indicating this is the section where criteria are offered is useful.) 2008 11 30, 14:02 Phil Sandifer (22,321 bytes) (→Notability of episodes and elements: More rephrase) 2008 11 30, 14:02 Phil Sandifer (22,199 bytes) (→Notability of episodes and elements: Try to rephrase to please Gavin) 2008 11 30, 13:58 Josiah Rowe (22,152 bytes) (→Sourcing and significance: how's this?) 2008 11 30, 04:51 10 Peregrine Fisher (22,156 bytes) (sp) 2008 11 30, 04:09 Jinnai (22,157 bytes) (→Use of sources: little bit of compacting first paragraph) 2008 11 30, 02:22 Jinnai (22,170 bytes) (→#3: Availability of real world perspective: simplified wording somewhat, changed example to remove some bias) 2008 11 30, 02:19 Jinnai (22,192 bytes) (→#2: Importance within the fictional work: simplification and some condesning) 2008 11 30, 02:03 Jinnai m (22,332 bytes) (→#1: Importance of the fictional work: made the link internal) 2008 11 30, 01:44 Jinnai (22,362 bytes) (→#1: Importance of the fictional work: changed the example to give non-telvision example for the article, condesed it and linked bias) 2008 11 30, 01:43 Jinnai m (22,395 bytes) (→Other fictional objects: 4->3 (prongs)) 2008 11 30, 01:31 Jinnai m (22,393 bytes) (→Characters: 4-3 (prongs)) 2008 11 30, 01:30 Josiah Rowe (22,392 bytes) (→Bias towards commercialism: change title, per talk page, and link "bias" to WP:BIAS) 2008 11 29, 13:08 Josiah Rowe (22,381 bytes) (→Episodes: link to WP:EPISODE) 2008 11 29, 06:35 Josiah Rowe m (22,342 bytes) (→Primary sources: mdash, better links) 2008 11 29, 06:30 Josiah Rowe m (22,334 bytes) (→Semi-independent sources: another mdash) 2008 11 29, 06:29 Josiah Rowe m (22,334 bytes) (→Semi-independent sources: mdash) 2008 11 29, 06:29 Josiah Rowe m (22,334 bytes) (→A note of caution: episode names go in quotation marks, not italics) 2008 11 29, 06:27 Josiah Rowe m (22,336 bytes) (→Bias towards commercialism: unspace mdashes) 2008 11 29, 06:27 Josiah Rowe (22,340 bytes) (→Bias towards commercialism: formatting, avoid odd and inaccurate locution "shows about television") 2008 11 29, 06:26 Josiah Rowe m (22,319 bytes) (→A note of caution: mdashes) 2008 11 29, 06:23 Malkinann (22,319 bytes) (→A note of caution: WP:IMPERFECT) 2008 11 29, 06:12 Malkinann (22,302 bytes) (Note that articles need to demonstrate their subject's notability, but do not need to be perfect.) 2008 11 29, 04:27 Malkinann (22,188 bytes) (→A note of caution: adding in exposure of WP:MERGE instructions, three-pronged test, do -> do so) 2008 11 28, 23:10 Jinnai m (22,017 bytes) (→Specific tendencies) 2008 11 28, 20:52 Randomran m (22,016 bytes) (→#2: Importance within the fictional work: improve clarity) 2008 11 28, 20:46 Protonk (22,023 bytes) (→Three-pronged test: rewrite intro.) 2008 11 28, 20:38 Randomran (21,599 bytes) (→#2: Importance within the fictional work: aggressive copy-edit. feel free to correct any inaccuracies.) 2008 11 28, 20:20 Randomran (22,413 bytes) (→Three-pronged test: this order makes more sense. 1: show the work is important, 2: show the element of the work is important to that work, 3: offer some real-world context) 2008 11 28, 19:47 Jinnai (22,413 bytes) (→Four-pronged test: four-prong test combined to three-prong test) 2008 11 28, 19:26 Randomran (22,493 bytes) (removing good faith additions by User:Nagle. Maybe your guideline is better than this one. Maybe it isn't. But it's different from where this one is going.) 2008 11 28, 18:42 Phil Sandifer (23,628 bytes) (Gavin's version garnered a pretty wide consensus. Please discuss on talk.) 2008 11 28, 18:18 Metatron's Cube (24,066 bytes) (rv) 2008 11 28, 18:16 Protonk m (23,628 bytes) (Reverted edits by Metatron's Cube (talk) to last version by Randomran) 2008 11 28, 18:09 Metatron's Cube (24,066 bytes) (Undoing Gavin Collin's vandalism.) 2008 11 28, 17:57 Randomran (23,628 bytes) (trying to sum up the "practical consensus" that this proposal summarizes) 2008 11 28, 17:48 Gavin.collins (23,368 bytes) (General notability guideline) 2008 11 28, 17:06 Gavin.collins (23,336 bytes) (Preamble as agreed at WT:FICT#[edit] Honest introduction to the guideline) 2008 11 28, 17:05 Nagle (24,066 bytes) (A somewhat harder line, but closer to WP:N) 2008 11 28, 16:54 Percy Snoodle m (22,996 bytes) (rv; that stops it being advice.) 2008 11 27, 19:42 1 Izno (23,013 bytes) (→A note of caution: slight tweaking of wording.) 2008 11 27, 19:02 2 Malkinann (22,996 bytes) (undo - language is too hardline and removes links to useful policies.) 2008 11 25, 18:49 Gavin.collins (22,278 bytes) (Honest introduction to the guideline) 2008 11 25, 17:39 Metatron's Cube (22,996 bytes) (I am reverting this pageot pregavin COllins edits status as his dispute over the Notability of many articles makes it clear that he's jsut tryignot change the WPguidlines on this subject to match his.) 2008 11 25, 15:47 Metatron's Cube (22,269 bytes) (Undoing Gavin Collins Vandalism.) 2008 11 25, 15:44 Gavin.collins (22,281 bytes) (Rename section) 2008 11 25, 14:57 Gavin.collins (22,269 bytes) (Delete redundant section) 2008 11 25, 14:56 Gavin.collins (23,555 bytes) (Honest introduction to the guideline) 2008 11 25, 14:54 Gavin.collins (23,462 bytes) (Honest introduction to the guideline) 2008 11 25, 14:53 Gavin.collins (23,801 bytes) (Honest introduction to the guideline) 2008 11 25, 14:47 Gavin.collins (23,797 bytes) (Honest introduction to the guideline) 2008 11 25, 14:45 Gavin.collins (23,782 bytes) (Honest introduction to the guideline) 2008 11 25, 14:43 Randomran m (22,996 bytes) (→#1: Narrative complexity: slight rephrase) 2008 11 25, 04:01 Izno m (22,970 bytes) (→A note of caution: add 'be') 2008 11 25, 00:33 Malkinann m (22,967 bytes) (→Self-published sources: rm acronym) 2008 11 24, 22:53 Malkinann m (22,868 bytes) (→Characters: remove acronym) 2008 11 24, 22:52 Malkinann m (22,842 bytes) (→#4: Availability of real world perspective: removing abbreviation) 2008 11 24, 22:51 Phil Sandifer m (22,820 bytes) (→A note of caution) 2008 11 24, 22:36 Malkinann (22,853 bytes) (→#1: Narrative complexity: This factor is closely related to the third and fourth factors, inasmuch as narrative complexity ... and can fuel critical commentary.) 2008 11 24, 22:33 Malkinann m (22,807 bytes) (→A note of caution: merged or deleted) 2008 11 24, 22:29 Malkinann m (22,797 bytes) (→A note of caution: removing acronym) 2008 11 24, 21:55 Malkinann m (22,755 bytes) (→#1: Narrative complexity: getting rid of the acronym) 2008 11 24, 21:54 Malkinann m (22,734 bytes) (WP:IMPERFECT) 2008 11 24, 21:20 Phil Sandifer (22,717 bytes) (→Episodes: Comparable edit to previous) 2008 11 24, 21:00 Phil Sandifer (22,439 bytes) (→Characters: Add a caveat, including what I hope is acceptable phrasing regarding the list tarpit) 2008 11 24, 20:59 Malkinann m (22,064 bytes) (→A note of caution: per WP:BEFORE.) 2008 11 24, 20:58 Malkinann m (22,045 bytes) (→A note of caution: linking transwiki to "relocate material") 2008 11 24, 20:24 Malkinann m (22,024 bytes) (→Self-published sources: do we need to provide the abbreviation for Television Without Pity? Surely it's covered in the linked article.) 2008 11 24, 20:20 Phil Sandifer (22,031 bytes) (→Four-pronged test: Another cautionary paragraph.) 2008 11 24, 04:05 Phil Sandifer (21,561 bytes) (→#4: Availability of real world perspective: Add cautionary paragraph) 2008 11 24, 04:00 DGG (21,137 bytes) (sect 4) 2008 11 24, 01:44 Phil Sandifer m (21,104 bytes) (→Other fictional objects) 2008 11 24, 01:44 Phil Sandifer (21,101 bytes) (→#3: Importance of the fictional work: Shorten, since most of this is dealt with in a later section.) 2008 11 24, 01:41 DGG (21,341 bytes) (→#3: Importance of the fictional work: biases) 2008 11 24, 01:37 Phil Sandifer (20,961 bytes) (Copyedit DGG's largely good change.) 2008 11 24, 01:34 DGG (20,959 bytes) (→Four-pronged test: first proposed change in language) 2008 11 24, 01:28 Phil Sandifer (20,579 bytes) (Importing new proposal that has far more support than objection at present.) 2008 11 22, 23:00 Phil Sandifer (21,236 bytes) (Rm protection) 2008 11 21, 15:38 Phil Sandifer m (Unprotected Wikipedia:Notability (fiction): Removing protection since 07, in part as I intend to import a new proposal here, but mostly because protection since 07 is bad.) 2008 11 21, 15:37 Huntster (21,251 bytes) (Changing links per talk page suggestion.) 2008 09 29, 09:37 PhilKnight m (21,292 bytes) (→Works of fiction: wikify) 2008 08 26, 20:01 David Fuchs m (21,281 bytes) (fix) 2008 07 23, 19:42 David Fuchs (21,281 bytes) (banner) 2008 07 23, 19:42 David Fuchs m (Changed protection level for "Wikipedia:Notability (fiction)": continual edit warring [edit=sysop:move=sysop]) 2008 07 23, 19:41 Kevin Murray (21,266 bytes) (So instead of having an edit war you just edit war. Interesting solution?) 2008 07 23, 19:25 2 Hobit (21,261 bytes) (rv. Rather than an edit war, can we dicuss this on the talk page please?) 2008 07 23, 18:43 Kevin Murray (21,266 bytes) (In support of Ned's compromise that this become an essay) 2008 07 23, 17:10 Hobit (21,261 bytes) (restored proposed tag. Let's take it to talk please.) 2008 07 23, 17:02 Ned Scott (21,266 bytes) (zomg) 2008 07 23, 08:32 Kevin Murray (21,263 bytes) (ZeroGiga is right) 2008 07 23, 07:49 Collectonian m (21,261 bytes) (Reverted 2 edits by ZeroGiga; Rv; no such consensus. using TW) 2008 07 23, 04:55 ZeroGiga (21,263 bytes) (fix) 2008 07 23, 04:34 ZeroGiga (21,259 bytes) (Rejected per consensus.) 2008 07 23, 04:32 NawlinWiki m (Protected Wikipedia:Notability (fiction): restore [move=sysop]) 2008 07 15, 19:58 Phil Sandifer m (21,261 bytes) (Reverted edits by Leastminor (talk) to last version by NawlinWiki) 2008 07 11, 06:06 NawlinWiki m (Protected Wikipedia:Notability (fiction): reprotect [move=sysop]) 2008 07 10, 14:58 Ryulong m (Protected Wikipedia:Notability (fiction) [move=sysop]) 2008 07 10, 06:16 Randomran (21,261 bytes) (revert. edit warring isn't fixing the situation. heavy discussion is still going on. take it over there.) 2008 07 8, 23:47 Kevin Murray (21,259 bytes) (You are right Gavin -- this is the more appropriate template.) 2008 07 8, 23:10 Gavin.collins (21,261 bytes) (Undid revision 224363735 by Kevin Murray (talk) This is an improper use of housekeeping template - see discussion) 2008 07 8, 20:43 Kevin Murray (21,263 bytes) (You are in defiance of consensus) 2008 07 8, 15:01 Gavin.collins (21,261 bytes) (Undid revision 224360559 by Kevin Murray (talk) Keep open as the proposal is still being actively edited) 2008 07 8, 15:00 Kevin Murray (21,263 bytes) (Marking as "Historical" per talk page - but no opposition to merge and redirect later per Smokey Joe) 2008 07 8, 14:43 Gavin.collins (21,261 bytes) (This is clearly more than historical interest and is actually being discusssed) 2008 07 3, 12:48 JediLofty (21,263 bytes) (→Works of fiction: Oops! I used Ctrl-C rather than Ctrl-X!) 2008 07 3, 10:22 JediLofty (21,271 bytes) (→Works of fiction: Fixed word order) 2008 07 3, 10:21 Masem (21,263 bytes) (as promised) 2008 07 3, 00:00 5 A Man In Black (21,261 bytes) (It's not an essay, and you didn't check talk.) 2008 07 2, 11:39 90.208.196.143 (Talk) (21,322 bytes) (Marking as essay, supplementing WP:NOTE. This thing's been proposed, disputed, etc too long.) 2008 07 2, 09:23 Masem (21,261 bytes) (Undid revision 222866944 by Sceptre (talk) See talk page: RFC is still open for 2 more days, I'll mark historical myself after close) 2008 07 1, 14:41 Sceptre (21,263 bytes) (I think that, after nine months, we're not going to get consensus for this guideline, and it's time to call it a day) 2008 07 1, 14:26 Zappernapper (21,261 bytes) (→Fictional elements as part of a larger topic: merged two similar steps, re-ordered steps so they are read in order of what to do, changed "described above" to "below" sectioned out list info) 2008 06 28, 07:20 Masem m (21,429 bytes) (Reverted edits by Kevin Murray (talk) to last version by Gavin.collins) 2008 06 28, 01:49 Kevin Murray (21,431 bytes) (Per RfC and Man in Black no further discussion has demonstrated progress) 2008 06 28, 01:28 Gavin.collins (21,429 bytes) (Undid revision 221427390 by A Man In Black (talk) This guideline is not historical, RFC in progress) 2008 06 24, 13:35 A Man In Black (21,431 bytes) (I genuinely believe that we should leave this behind and move on. WP:N has it covered.) 2008 06 24, 13:20 Ned Scott (21,429 bytes) (protection expired) 2008 06 22, 06:50 Tariqabjotu (21,465 bytes) (+ protection template) 2008 06 18, 13:21 Tariqabjotu m (Protected Wikipedia:Notability (fiction): briefly protecting to force discussion [edit=sysop:move=sysop] (expires 13:20, 21 June 2008 (UTC))) 2008 06 18, 13:20 Randomran (21,429 bytes) (Undid revision 219909976 by Kevin Murray (talk)) 2008 06 17, 15:44 Kevin Murray (21,427 bytes) (Per WP policy, failed is one for which consensus for acceptance has not developed after a reasonable time period) 2008 06 17, 12:26 Randomran (21,429 bytes) (there's plenty of productive discussion, with lots of room for compromise.) 2008 06 17, 07:32 Kevin Murray (21,430 bytes) (No further constructive discussion to justify that consensus can be attained -- failed per the talk page and WP:Policy) 2008 06 17, 07:29 Ned Scott (21,429 bytes) (you can't dispute a proposal) 2008 06 14, 02:32 Avruch m (21,445 bytes) (Reverted edits by Kevin Murray (talk) to last version by Sceptre) 2008 06 14, 00:57 Kevin Murray (21,430 bytes) (return rejected tag) 2008 06 14, 00:55 Sceptre (21,445 bytes) (Undid revision 219189461 by Kevin Murray (talk) original acceptance means it can't be "rejected" (it must be "historical")) 2008 06 14, 00:45 Kevin Murray (21,430 bytes) (In consideration of lack of consensus for acceptance and a year of attempts, this projects meets the definition of failed at WP:Policy - after 10 days the RfC can be evaluated under WP:SNOW) 2008 06 14, 00:15 Kaldari m (21,430 bytes) (missing period) 2008 06 9, 19:55 Ned Scott (21,429 bytes) (→Works of fiction) 2008 06 7, 06:07 Sephiroth BCR m (21,400 bytes) (→Works of fiction: minor fix) 2008 06 7, 02:12 DGG (21,406 bytes) (the phrase inserted does not have consensus. I substituted a repeat of one from the nutshell.) 2008 06 7, 02:08 Ned Scott (21,372 bytes) (→General topics on fiction: oops) 2008 06 5, 07:30 Ned Scott (21,381 bytes) (→Works of fiction: wait, I must not have read this clearly enough. This was -never- meant to be a requirement for the parent article itself. This section is horible) 2008 06 5, 07:29 Ned Scott (21,943 bytes) 2008 06 5, 07:19 Gavin.collins (21,492 bytes) (Cast & crew or airing dates do not provide evidence of notability at all) 2008 06 5, 07:13 Gavin.collins (21,495 bytes) (Less is more: better to have this sentence regarding primary sources out altogether than qualify it with footnote) 2008 06 5, 07:11 Masem (21,943 bytes) (→Works of fiction: Adding a footnote to explain that self-published sources, alone, are not sufficent for "significant coverage" but leads towards that.) 2008 06 5, 05:04 Gavin.collins (21,665 bytes) (Move sentence from WP:FICT#Elements of Fiction to WP:FICT#Dealing with non-notable fictional topics per WT:FICT#Duplication of guidance on article deletion) 2008 06 3, 17:26 Gavin.collins (21,730 bytes) (Undid revision 216712893 by Masem (talk) Revert duplicate guidance - see WT:FICT#Duplication of guidance on article deletion) 2008 06 3, 12:12 Masem (22,030 bytes) (→Elements of fiction: Adding a footnote that AFD should be last step of dispute resolution) 2008 06 2, 21:39 Izno m (21,730 bytes) (→Elements of fiction: tweaked template link) 2008 06 2, 20:40 Guest9999 (21,729 bytes) (note that Wikipedia:Notability (toys and games) is a proposed guideline) 2008 05 25, 00:10 3 Jc37 m (Changed protection level for "Wikipedia:Notability (fiction)": Incivility in edit summaries in an edit war - Happy to unprotect m:The Wrong Version should things calm down, and civil discussion comences. [edit=sysop:move=sysop] (expi) 2008 05 14, 06:49 Jc37 (21,706 bytes) ((Null edit) - Please take this to the talk page (Though with a bit more civility)) 2008 05 14, 06:46 Percy Snoodle (21,704 bytes) (rv Ned - calling me an ass doesn't help anything. This has consensus, you don't. Grow up.) 2008 05 14, 06:39 Ned Scott (21,719 bytes) (Undid revision 212236061 by Hiding (talk) Other editors did raise objections, and please actually look at what it says) 2008 05 14, 04:17 Hiding (21,704 bytes) (restoring this, other editors made no objections to it and if it is to be altered it needs a better reasoned edit summary than was given) 2008 05 13, 23:53 Ned Scott (21,719 bytes) (Undid revision 212054675 by Percy Snoodle (talk) get your head out of your ass) 2008 05 13, 21:28 A Man In Black (21,704 bytes) (Nobody's saying we need a list of Jedi, but it's a good pop-culture example of how to name) 2008 05 13, 18:21 DGG (21,448 bytes) (I do not think there is consensus for this example.) 2008 05 13, 14:26 Percy Snoodle (21,695 bytes) (give it a rest, Ned) 2008 05 13, 06:44 Ned Scott (21,710 bytes) (if you can actually generate something useful in that section, then by all means. The main focus, however, has always been elements of fiction, not works) 2008 05 13, 04:54 Percy Snoodle (21,695 bytes) (→Fictional elements as part of a larger topic: move footnote) 2008 05 12, 13:38 Percy Snoodle (21,694 bytes) (→Fictional elements as part of a larger topic: opening ref tag for footnote) 2008 05 12, 13:37 Percy Snoodle (21,691 bytes) (partial restore: We need to give guidance on what "appropriate" means.) 2008 05 12, 13:28 DGG (21,668 bytes) (more flexible change. admittedly bold) 2008 05 11, 19:12 Masem (22,036 bytes) (→Fictional elements as part of a larger topic: Just adding a recommendation on the list naming schem) 2008 05 10, 19:14 Percy Snoodle (21,782 bytes) (→Fictional elements as part of a larger topic: example of real-world division) 2008 05 10, 17:35 Percy Snoodle (21,724 bytes) (add link to def of highly notable; reword less-notable lists advice) 2008 05 10, 17:22 Sgeureka (21,746 bytes) (→Fictional elements as part of a larger topic: How about this? per talk with Percy) 2008 05 10, 14:11 Sambc (21,801 bytes) (→Fictional elements as part of a larger topic: Take a stab at language about both notable fictional divisation and categorisation of redirects) 2008 05 8, 16:08 Percy Snoodle m (21,517 bytes) (→Fictional elements as part of a larger topic: rm 'such') 2008 05 8, 12:48 Percy Snoodle (21,522 bytes) (→Fictional elements as part of a larger topic: move list-breaking out of a footnote and add note on real-world divisions per talk) 2008 05 8, 12:46 Percy Snoodle (21,398 bytes) (→Fictional elements as part of a larger topic: "In cases" is redundant. Run the sentence on so that people read all of it.) 2008 05 7, 08:33 DGG (21,408 bytes) (→Fictional elements as part of a larger topic: possibly more acceptable wording, see talk.) 2008 05 7, 03:26 Kevin Murray (21,413 bytes) (return proposed tag) 2008 05 6, 14:47 Percy Snoodle (21,414 bytes) (→Fictional elements as part of a larger topic: example) 2008 05 6, 14:41 Hiding (21,289 bytes) (tag as guideline per talk) 2008 05 6, 14:02 Percy Snoodle (21,288 bytes) ("specific" not "other") 2008 05 6, 06:57 Sambc (21,285 bytes) (grammar tweak in preamble) 2008 05 5, 08:28 Masem (21,279 bytes) (expanding preamble to point to all other "media"-based notability, noting FICT is general, these are specific) 2008 05 4, 21:55 Bignole (21,045 bytes) (Undid revision 210114541 by Sambc (talk) reverting because the last statement makes no sense and this wasn't discussed) 2008 05 4, 15:16 Sambc (21,432 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: running up the flagpole; revert or don't, but please comment on talk.) 2008 05 4, 15:06 Percy Snoodle (21,045 bytes) (rv Ned Scott. Yes we do - see WP:FICT#Works of fiction!) 2008 05 4, 09:39 Ned Scott (20,975 bytes) (Undid revision 209925795 by Percy Snoodle (talk) we have no advice for works of fiction.....) 2008 05 4, 03:43 Sambc (21,045 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: topics are notable, not articles; we provide evidence of notability, not notability itself.) 2008 05 3, 16:23 Percy Snoodle (21,050 bytes) (So long as we have a "Works of fiction" section, this guideline applies to works of fiction) 2008 05 3, 16:22 Erachima (20,980 bytes) (→Fictional topics as part of a larger topic: Eh? this wording is odd, if the entire work is non-notable then there is no "larger topic".) 2008 05 3, 09:27 Ned Scott (20,978 bytes) (it always made more sense to me this way) 2008 05 3, 07:57 Ned Scott (20,966 bytes) (Everyone but two edits seem to understand that WP:FICT is about elements of fiction, not the works of fiction themselves) 2008 05 3, 07:54 Percy Snoodle (20,932 bytes) (different and wrong - see the Works of Fiction section) 2008 05 2, 09:19 A Man In Black (21,011 bytes) (A different clarification angle) 2008 05 2, 09:14 Sambc (20,932 bytes) (the text actually refers to works of fiction (regardless of medium) as well as elements; saying to look somewhere else regarding anything other than elements would seem strange) 2008 05 1, 18:27 A Man In Black (20,966 bytes) (How can you be pushing a POV on a guideline? Also, this is about fictional stuff, those are for works of fiction. Not seeing any problem.) 2008 05 1, 18:21 Percy Snoodle (20,932 bytes) (rv POV edit by Gavin) 2008 05 1, 15:50 Gavin.collins (20,966 bytes) (Restore original pre-amble introduced by user:Ned Scott 06:53, 16 09 2007) 2008 05 1, 15:50 Sambc m (20,932 bytes) (→Elements of fiction: typo fix) 2008 05 1, 15:16 Sambc (20,931 bytes) (→Elements of fiction: Clarify and expand the award note; some awards are good enough on their own, but doesn't entirely matter; if you object to the expansion, please leave the clarification) 2008 05 1, 15:15 Sambc (20,590 bytes) (→Elements of fiction: Add note giving exemplar and counter-example class regarding awards and plaudits; running it up the flagpole) 2008 05 1, 15:09 Percy Snoodle (20,254 bytes) (→Elements of fiction: tighten awards footnote) 2008 05 1, 14:01 Sambc (20,224 bytes) (→Elements of fiction: restore change (with small modification) based on talk discussion) 2008 05 1, 13:26 Percy Snoodle (20,176 bytes) (→Depth of coverage: We use "substantial" elsewhere. Also, avoid saying that's subjective as some people will turn that into an argument.) 2008 05 1, 13:04 Hiding (20,157 bytes) (→Fictional topics as part of a larger topic: types of list) 2008 05 1, 12:50 Hiding (20,149 bytes) (→Depth of coverage: per talk, a note on "large") 2008 05 1, 12:49 Percy Snoodle (19,605 bytes) (→Elements of fiction: add ref suggested by topic on talk page) 2008 05 1, 11:20 Percy Snoodle (19,331 bytes) (The medium is not the message, but one article can cover both.) 2008 05 1, 10:30 Percy Snoodle m (19,371 bytes) (→Fictional topics as part of a larger topic: further grammar and clarity fixes) 2008 05 1, 10:28 Percy Snoodle m (19,363 bytes) (→Fictional topics as part of a larger topic: grammar) 2008 05 1, 10:27 Gavin.collins (19,365 bytes) (Undid revision 209427915 by Percy Snoodle They don't overall, the medium is not the message) 2008 05 1, 10:27 Percy Snoodle (19,325 bytes) (since specific guidelines can overlap...) 2008 05 1, 10:26 Gavin.collins (19,365 bytes) (Undid revision 209425755 by Sambc No such, rankings, sales figures for fictional elements exist; when you say "studies", I think you mean reliable sources) 2008 05 1, 10:24 Sambc (19,400 bytes) (most editors in this discussion seem to accept the idea that such things can specifically relate to an element, although some of those listed couldn't; also, make list explicitly non-exclusive) 2008 05 1, 10:06 Percy Snoodle (19,365 bytes) (rv POV edit by Gavin) 2008 05 1, 10:04 Gavin.collins (19,410 bytes) (Undid revision 209424646 by Percy Snoodle These examples relate to media (books, films & toys), but not to elements of fiction themselves) 2008 05 1, 10:00 Percy Snoodle (19,365 bytes) (→Fictional topics as part of a larger topic: Notes on when to break lists) 2008 05 1, 09:59 Percy Snoodle (19,027 bytes) (→Elements of fiction: Move examples into paragraph and explain why those are good examples) 2008 05 1, 09:55 Superm401 m (Protected Wikipedia:Notability (fiction): no need to allow vandals to move pages like this [move=sysop]) 2008 05 1, 03:05 DGG (19,072 bytes) (→Elements of fiction: sugdested addition) 2008 05 1, 01:16 Sgeureka (18,888 bytes) (→Works of fiction: "should be presumed" -> "is presumed" (the word "presumed" already has a degree of uncertainty - please revert if this goes in the wrong direction)) 2008 04 30, 18:25 Sgeureka (18,895 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: update for current wording of WP:NOT#PLOT (might still change per current discussions at WT:NOT)) 2008 04 30, 18:17 Erachima (18,907 bytes) (→Depth of coverage: grammar) 2008 04 30, 17:22 Sgeureka m (18,914 bytes) (typo, avoid redirect, neutral on Sambc's addition) 2008 04 30, 12:01 Sambc (18,922 bytes) (→Elements of fiction: Boldly running this up the flagpole; based on recent discussion, we seem to agree on this advice, and including it here *will* limit inappropriate article creation) 2008 04 30, 10:19 Erachima (18,567 bytes) (→See also: alphabetization) 2008 04 29, 20:30 Erachima (18,567 bytes) (→Fictional topics as part of a larger topic: Merging in wording change proposed last night and supported by all non-Gavin commentators.) 2008 04 29, 14:39 Grebenkov m (18,451 bytes) (interwiki) 2008 04 29, 14:10 Sambc (18,334 bytes) (→Elements of fiction: Otherwise we mention (or imply) academic studies of the work itself but not elements; elements do get studied on their own) 2008 04 29, 14:03 Percy Snoodle (18,252 bytes) (→Depth of coverage: promote section - this section does not discuss demonstration of notability) 2008 04 29, 13:14 Percy Snoodle (18,254 bytes) (→Depth of coverage: bolden and add "real-world" per talk. Change "balance of plot info" to"balance of real-world and plot" to make clear that they're both welcome. Link to section.) 2008 04 29, 13:13 Percy Snoodle (18,456 bytes) (→Fictional topics as part of a larger topic: link to elements section to address Masem's concern) 2008 04 29, 13:07 Sgeureka m (18,412 bytes) (→Fictional topics as part of a larger topic: punctuation fix) 2008 04 29, 13:03 Percy Snoodle (18,414 bytes) (→References: rename to "Notes" to match WP:N) 2008 04 29, 13:02 Percy Snoodle (18,419 bytes) (→Elements of fiction: put examples in refs to see how that looks) 2008 04 29, 13:01 Percy Snoodle (18,377 bytes) (→Fictional topics as part of a larger topic: +substantially) 2008 04 29, 12:59 Sambc (18,362 bytes) (→Fictional topics as part of a larger topic: tweak def; you wouldn't believe the obscure and strange things that academics study) 2008 04 29, 12:57 Masem (18,352 bytes) (→See also: +reflist) 2008 04 29, 12:52 Masem (18,324 bytes) (→Fictional topics as part of a larger topic: attempt at def for "highly notable") 2008 04 29, 12:51 Percy Snoodle (18,095 bytes) (→Fictional topics as part of a larger topic: they may also expand them) 2008 04 29, 12:46 Masem (18,070 bytes) (→Fictional topics as part of a larger topic: make first exceptional case match text (highly notable), mention that spec. guidelines may limit further) 2008 04 29, 12:43 Gavin.collins (17,968 bytes) (Revert Hiding) 2008 04 29, 12:38 Percy Snoodle (17,968 bytes) (→Fictional topics: ..and conversely) 2008 04 29, 12:29 Percy Snoodle (17,965 bytes) (→Fictional elements as part of a larger topic: tiny change: elements to topics) 2008 04 29, 12:29 Hiding (17,967 bytes) (test the water, add guideline tag) 2008 04 29, 12:22 Percy Snoodle m (17,966 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: sp) 2008 04 29, 09:09 Percy Snoodle (17,967 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: Promote demonstrating notability) 2008 04 29, 09:09 Percy Snoodle (17,948 bytes) (→Fictional elements as part of a larger topic: ...and the individual elements are still non-notable) 2008 04 29, 09:00 Percy Snoodle (17,943 bytes) (OK, that's fair; but I still prefer the hierarchy that gives us less cumbersome section names) 2008 04 29, 08:59 Erachima (17,978 bytes) (→Including fictional elements as part of a larger topic: section header parallelism) 2008 04 29, 08:57 Erachima (17,968 bytes) (If you dislike the neologism, let's just go for straight description. And that's an improper section merge, as they have separate focuses.) 2008 04 29, 08:56 Percy Snoodle m (17,564 bytes) (merge sections on non-notable elements) 2008 04 29, 08:54 Percy Snoodle (17,955 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: avoid use of "dependent notability") 2008 04 29, 08:46 Hiding (17,952 bytes) (avoid wiki-jargon for new editors) 2008 04 29, 08:39 Hiding (17,920 bytes) (→Dependent notability: let's also mention improvement, because that's also current practise and can also cause issues) 2008 04 29, 08:29 Hiding (17,890 bytes) (tweak for current practise and to focus better on consensus) 2008 04 29, 08:27 Erachima (17,839 bytes) (→Dependent notability: double negatives are confusing and we're hyphenating way too much, also some general wording clarification) 2008 04 29, 08:06 Ned Scott (17,848 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: since we're treating this as a sort of draft. Re-wording some more of these non-notables to "dependent") 2008 04 29, 07:56 Percy Snoodle (17,832 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: a highly-notable individual work could potentially merit such a list) 2008 04 28, 15:43 Percy Snoodle (17,839 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: simplify further - major and/or minor/recurring covers all possibilities) 2008 04 28, 15:40 Percy Snoodle (17,972 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: avoid use of 'spinout') 2008 04 28, 15:38 Percy Snoodle (17,998 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: reword; it's still a non-sequitur to say that non-notable articles are acceptable) 2008 04 28, 15:38 Hiding (18,074 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: rewrite) 2008 04 28, 15:36 Masem (18,179 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: we need to state these cases to some degree) 2008 04 28, 15:30 Sgeureka m (17,106 bytes) (→Depth of coverage: + comma) 2008 04 28, 15:25 Hiding (17,105 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: rewrite, to better reflect practise) 2008 04 28, 15:19 Hiding (16,885 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for works of fiction: sometime it does, so let's keep that in mind and reflect it) 2008 04 28, 15:12 Hiding (16,886 bytes) (Some editors prefer this, but let's not ignore the editors who don't. This better reflects current practise across Wikipedia) 2008 04 28, 15:09 Percy Snoodle (16,875 bytes) (→Non-notable elements: elements -> topics) 2008 04 28, 15:01 Percy Snoodle (16,877 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable topics: Try another heading) 2008 04 28, 15:00 Percy Snoodle (16,863 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: add subsection header to see how it looks) 2008 04 28, 14:59 Sgeureka m (16,836 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: rm duplicate "(") 2008 04 28, 14:58 Sgeureka (16,837 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: + "automatically"(?), + "]]") 2008 04 28, 14:56 Percy Snoodle (16,825 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: close parentheses) 2008 04 28, 14:56 Percy Snoodle (16,825 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: merge into list - this may be all we need to say) 2008 04 28, 14:55 Percy Snoodle (16,716 bytes) (update summary) 2008 04 28, 14:50 Percy Snoodle (16,741 bytes) (→Depth of coverage: avoid 'spinout') 2008 04 28, 14:49 Percy Snoodle (16,746 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: ah; that's the previous paragraph. Move link to WP:SS while avoiding use of term "spinout") 2008 04 28, 14:49 Percy Snoodle (16,923 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: add advice on creating notable spinouts. Remove "will not be challenged as deletion candidates" paragraph; that's untrue.) 2008 04 28, 14:47 Masem (17,603 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: adding one more demo of notability) 2008 04 28, 14:36 Masem (17,446 bytes) (smaller nutshell) 2008 04 28, 14:34 Masem (17,866 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: rewriting this section to reflect the stronger limitations on non-nnotable spinouts) 2008 04 28, 14:30 VolkovBot m (21,496 bytes) (robot Adding: zh Modifying: de, fr, pt) 2008 04 20, 12:21 Ned Scott (21,433 bytes) (→Some topics are necessary to understand others: oops) 2008 04 17, 03:03 Ned Scott (21,536 bytes) (→Some topics are necessary to understand others) 2008 04 17, 02:18 Percy Snoodle (21,322 bytes) (→Some topics are necessary to understand others: link straight to main article) 2008 04 16, 09:01 Masem (21,417 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: Move "media" notability to own section, new section for "elements" to try to disconnect based on talk page) 2008 04 11, 15:38 Percy Snoodle (20,282 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: that or WP:N.) 2008 04 11, 14:36 Masem m (20,254 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics) 2008 04 11, 13:58 Masem (20,252 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: If other media-specific guidelines are met, FICT is presumed met.) 2008 04 11, 13:57 Percy Snoodle (19,928 bytes) (...but removing the guideline tag is a good idea) 2008 04 10, 07:09 Percy Snoodle (19,921 bytes) (rv. It *was* discussed; you may have missed it in the huge ongoing debate.) 2008 04 10, 07:08 Ned Scott (17,314 bytes) (typically speaking, a change this large should be discussed first. If it makes you feel better I'll remove the guideline tag) 2008 04 10, 00:40 Percy Snoodle (19,921 bytes) (restore deleted alternatives - the spinouts section has no more consensus support than they do; why should it stay if they don't?) 2008 04 7, 09:49 Masem m (Protected Wikipedia:Notability (fiction): same nonsense as talk page [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed] (expires 12:39, 6 April 2008 (UTC))) 2008 04 5, 12:39 Masem m (17,296 bytes) (Reverted edits by 62.195.65.196 (talk) to last version by Ned Scott) 2008 04 5, 12:38 Ned Scott (17,296 bytes) (holy crap, what happened here?) 2008 04 4, 23:34 VolkovBot m (19,892 bytes) (robot Adding: zh Modifying: de, fr, pt) 2008 04 4, 18:35 Percy Snoodle (19,829 bytes) (→Notable groups of topics merit aggregate articles: add "various" so it's clear the coverage has to be across more than just one or two elements) 2008 04 4, 15:10 Sgeureka (19,823 bytes) (Undid revision 202762114 by Catchpole (talk) - that was for April Fools' Day) 2008 04 2, 09:19 Catchpole (2,632 bytes) (back to Ursasapien) 2008 04 2, 08:52 Stardust8212 (19,823 bytes) (Undid revision 202485730 by Ursasapien (talk) Oh ha ha) 2008 04 1, 12:18 Ursasapien (2,632 bytes) (Reverting to an earlier form that does not conflict with WP:N or WP:PLOT (Imbéciles D'Avril)) 2008 04 1, 06:14 Percy Snoodle (19,823 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: won't always be recent) 2008 03 31, 19:41 Percy Snoodle (19,814 bytes) (it's a big nutshell.) 2008 03 31, 19:39 Percy Snoodle (19,520 bytes) (revert as promised) 2008 03 31, 16:06 Percy Snoodle (16,454 bytes) (→Summary style approach for spinout articles: create revision without this section; I will revert straight away) 2008 03 31, 16:05 Erachima (19,520 bytes) (Given that half the page has been rewritten in the last 24 hours with very little relative discussion, I'm pulling off the guideline tag to avoid any risk of confusion.) 2008 03 31, 14:16 Hiding (19,612 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: rem tag per talk) 2008 03 31, 14:03 Percy Snoodle (19,719 bytes) (→Notable groups of topics merit aggregate articles: further detail can be found at...) 2008 03 31, 13:49 Gavin.collins (19,581 bytes) (Disputed sections & subsections which conflict or are inconsistent with existing guidelines) 2008 03 31, 13:47 Percy Snoodle (19,473 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: trim or transwiki) 2008 03 31, 13:46 Percy Snoodle m (19,139 bytes) (→Some topics are necessary to understand others: swap back) 2008 03 31, 13:26 Percy Snoodle m (19,139 bytes) (→Some topics are necessary to understand others: WP:PSTS) 2008 03 31, 13:26 Percy Snoodle (19,127 bytes) (→Some topics are necessary to understand others: spinout) 2008 03 31, 13:24 Percy Snoodle (19,101 bytes) (→Some topics are necessary to understand others: perspective and significance) 2008 03 31, 13:23 Percy Snoodle (19,054 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: real-world perspective and verifiability) 2008 03 31, 13:22 Percy Snoodle (18,761 bytes) (→Some topics are necessary to understand others: +secondary) 2008 03 31, 13:07 Percy Snoodle (18,751 bytes) (→Some topics are necessary to understand others: ...or a list) 2008 03 31, 11:06 Percy Snoodle (18,725 bytes) (→Some topics are necessary to understand others: clearer still) 2008 03 31, 11:05 Percy Snoodle (18,709 bytes) (→Some topics are necessary to understand others: make it clear that they are described in the main article) 2008 03 31, 11:05 Percy Snoodle m (18,711 bytes) (→Notable topics merit individual articles: element) 2008 03 31, 11:01 Hiding (18,710 bytes) (tipo) 2008 03 31, 10:06 Percy Snoodle m (18,710 bytes) (→Some topics are necessary to understand others: rm comma) 2008 03 31, 09:58 Percy Snoodle (18,711 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: Some topics are necessary to understand others - a possible complement or alternative to the spinouts section) 2008 03 31, 09:54 Percy Snoodle (18,217 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: match title names) 2008 03 28, 15:45 Percy Snoodle (18,165 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: main and friends) 2008 03 28, 13:45 Percy Snoodle (17,978 bytes) (Suggestion: Aggregate articles. This should include some of the definitely-acceptable articles, without getting them involved in the spinouts morass.) 2008 03 28, 13:38 Hiding (17,296 bytes) (wikify) 2008 03 25, 10:44 Percy Snoodle m (17,268 bytes) (→Summary style approach for spinout articles: rm 'on it') 2008 03 25, 10:10 Percy Snoodle (17,274 bytes) (→Summary style approach for spinout articles: remove unverifiable details, even in aggregate articles) 2008 03 25, 10:09 Guest9999 (17,302 bytes) (add see also links to WP:SIZE and WP:SS) 2008 03 22, 15:55 Nydas (17,242 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: the use of sales figures and merchandise for notability has never been explained) 2008 03 22, 09:58 Guest9999 (17,308 bytes) (try to make less prescriptive) 2008 03 22, 02:41 Nydas m (17,294 bytes) (→Notable topics merit individual articles: removed errant bracket) 10:50, 21 March 2008 Nydas (17,295 bytes) (→Notable topics merit individual articles: removed bizarre dual notability system, unexplained and probably unexplainable) 2008 03 21, 10:50 Verdatum m (17,540 bytes) (→Summary style approach for spinout articles: "sub-articles" ==> "spinout articles") 2008 03 20, 17:31 UnitedStatesian (17,536 bytes) (partial revert - see talk) 2008 03 20, 14:48 Percy Snoodle (17,619 bytes) (→Summary style approach for spinout articles: "Articles which do not begin as sections of an article are not spinouts of that article." - do you agree?) 2008 03 20, 14:25 Percy Snoodle (17,580 bytes) (→Summary style approach for spinout articles: copy caution from WP:WAF) 2008 03 20, 14:24 Percy Snoodle (17,456 bytes) (→Summary style approach for spinout articles: 'element' rather than 'section') 2008 03 20, 12:54 Percy Snoodle (17,443 bytes) (→Summary style approach for spinout articles: advise against spinouts of spinouts) 2008 03 20, 12:51 Percy Snoodle (17,326 bytes) (on balance, rm 'sufficient') 2008 03 20, 10:46 Percy Snoodle (17,337 bytes) (apply article changes from earlier to the nutshell summary) 2008 03 20, 10:45 Ursasapien (17,308 bytes) (Let's discuss this on the talkpage before we simply cut it from the guideline) 2008 03 20, 10:41 Nydas (15,065 bytes) (removed depth of coverage section; unreadable, jargon-laden mixture of the redundant, the obvious and the ambiguous) 2008 03 20, 10:02 Collectonian (17,308 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: changed. technically ANYTHING can be contested for any reason including "I was in a bad mood" :P) 2008 03 18, 14:56 Masem (17,299 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: Adding one phrase to prevent over-zealous PRODers) 2008 03 18, 14:23 Collectonian (17,251 bytes) (Undid revision 199044981 by Ursasapien (talk) discuss first) 2008 03 18, 14:10 Ursasapien (16,743 bytes) (I am taking this to the talk page.) 2008 03 18, 08:40 Sgeureka (17,251 bytes) (Undid revision 198598171 by Nydas - prods still need to have a good rationale, and the deleting admin will know when the prod is inappropriate) 2008 03 16, 10:34 Nydas (16,743 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: removed suggestion to prod; biased against low-traffic fiction articles) 2008 03 16, 09:43 DGG (17,251 bytes) (→Summary style approach for spinout articles: clarify intended meaning) 2008 03 16, 02:04 Masem (17,243 bytes) (→Summary style approach for spinout articles: adding a couple reasons why singular articles will be contested) 2008 03 15, 12:56 Masem (17,114 bytes) (→Summary style approach for spinout articles: adjusting per talk page) 2008 03 15, 12:24 Juhachi m (16,962 bytes) (→Summary style approach for spinout articles) 2008 03 13, 08:01 Wassupwestcoast (16,963 bytes) (→See also: add MoS and alphabetize) 2008 03 11, 13:38 Masem (16,907 bytes) (Undid revision 196993902 by Nydas (talk) That's not a useless sentence, it sets up the list of suggestions) 2008 03 9, 14:57 Nydas (16,815 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: removed useless sentence) 2008 03 9, 13:13 Ned Scott (16,907 bytes) (it's still a guideline, the spirit still has consensus, but new wording has been proposed) 2008 03 9, 06:25 Masem m (16,835 bytes) 2008 03 9, 05:31 Masem (16,843 bytes) (ok, proposed can take in the shortcut parameters.) 2008 03 9, 05:31 UnitedStatesian (16,856 bytes) (no, no, it can't be both a guideline and a proposed guideline. Why can't people wait until it is no longer proposed?) 2008 03 9, 05:26 Masem (16,908 bytes) (ok, keep proposed, but use subcat guideline shortcut) 2008 03 9, 05:24 UnitedStatesian (16,947 bytes) (if it is proposed, it can't be disputed) 2008 03 9, 04:13 Masem (16,950 bytes) (→Relocating non-notable fictional material: Addressing the recommendation to see what wiki is approprate from Wproject) 2008 03 9, 00:36 Sceptre (16,825 bytes) (→Relocating non-notable fictional material: rw so as not to show any possible bias towards Wikia) 2008 03 8, 23:08 Sgeureka (16,948 bytes) (Undid revision 196857645 by White Cat (talk) - if you disagree with the examples, rm the examples, not the whole paragraph) 2008 03 8, 22:47 Masem (16,479 bytes) (Undid revision 196865638 by White Cat (talk) I've seen nothing to the contrary to this) 2008 03 8, 22:22 White Cat (15,370 bytes) (→Relocating non-notable fictional material: removing entire section that lacks consensus behind it.) 2008 03 8, 22:12 White Cat (16,479 bytes) (→Relocating non-notable fictional material: do not advertise thirdparty wikis) 2008 03 8, 21:37 Masem (16,948 bytes) (not necessary agree with disputed, but mark it this way (since shortcuts still apply) 2008 03 8, 12:51 Percy Snoodle (16,913 bytes) (still actively disputed) 2008 03 8, 09:22 Ned Scott (16,906 bytes) (Undid revision 196696235 by Ned Scott (talk) well... maybe... I could be thinking too hard about this) 2008 03 8, 04:43 Ned Scott (16,830 bytes) (I know I'm a bit late on this, but something just doesn't sound right with "spinout") 2008 03 8, 04:39 Celestianpower (16,906 bytes) (→Summary style approach for spinout articles: Grammar) 2008 03 4, 21:41 Masem (16,905 bytes) (Replacing "sub-article" with "spinout article" (since, as G.Guy points out on talk page, sub-article has a very different meaning.) 2008 03 2, 01:47 Hatenar (16,829 bytes) (+interlang) 2008 02 29, 16:04 Nydas (16,781 bytes) (removed incorrect uses of 'in-universe'; in-universe is a style, not a type of content) 2008 02 29, 09:35 Ned Scott (16,795 bytes) (rv back, please see talk page) 2008 02 27, 03:06 UnitedStatesian (16,735 bytes) (fix fmt) 2008 02 27, 01:53 UnitedStatesian (16,743 bytes) (turn back to proposed) 2008 02 27, 01:52 Ned Scott (16,795 bytes) (fix this) 2008 02 25, 18:55 Dorftrottel (16,735 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: update to current wording of WP:NOT#PLOT) 2008 02 24, 08:41 Deckiller (16,661 bytes) (copy-edit) 2008 02 23, 04:33 12 Nydas (16,730 bytes) (→Depth of coverage: removed pedantic 'various') 2008 02 22, 23:49 Masem (16,739 bytes) (→Summary style approach for sub-articles: rewording per talk page) 2008 02 21, 16:47 Guest9999 (16,255 bytes) (readding comment about independence of the subject per my comments on the talk page) 2008 02 19, 21:05 Hiding (16,219 bytes) (okay, I won't revert again but it is my understanding of the talk page that there is a reason this isn't on. Have initiated talk page discussion) 2008 02 19, 09:54 Taemyr (16,255 bytes) (Undid sources can be connected to the subject without originating from the subject. Eg. using Lucas as a source for Star Wars.) 2008 02 19, 00:49 Hiding (16,219 bytes) (Redundant. A fictional concept can not originate material, all material is independent of the subject.) 2008 02 18, 22:34 Guest9999 (16,255 bytes) (without a requirement for independence of the subject, the statement is really more about verifiability than notability) 2008 02 18, 22:18 Gary King (16,138 bytes) (Cleanup) 2008 02 18, 21:19 Crotalus horridus (16,139 bytes) (Most of the discussion and debate has been taking place on the Arbcom workshop and related pages. You can't just make a "consensus" in one small corner of Wikipedia and try to apply it globally.) 2008 02 18, 17:42 Sgeureka (16,186 bytes) (recover the notability guideline template) 2008 02 18, 12:45 Hiding (16,094 bytes) (building the consensus to remove the tag since there is no opposition on the talk page) 2008 02 18, 12:23 Crotalus horridus (16,139 bytes) (This is clearly still in the proposal stage; it's very contentious and the proposal tag should not be removed until consensus exists to do so.) 2008 02 18, 02:53 Deckiller m (16,186 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: hmm...a slight wording change makes it consistent) 2008 02 17, 04:39 Deckiller (16,430 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: more trimming) 2008 02 17, 04:37 Deckiller m (16,230 bytes) (reverting one of my chops) 2008 02 17, 04:29 Deckiller m (16,212 bytes) (tweak to nutshell) 2008 02 17, 04:28 Deckiller m (16,224 bytes) (couple tweaks) 2008 02 17, 04:27 Deckiller m (16,243 bytes) (copy-edit; tightening the nutshell) 2008 02 17, 04:25 UnitedStatesian (16,303 bytes) (It's in the IncGuide template, it can't have both tags - if it is only proposed, rm the guideline tag and adjust the IncGuide template too) 2008 02 17, 02:33 Masem (16,316 bytes) (This is still in the discussion stages. I do not believe it is yet fully agreed on) 2008 02 16, 04:15 UnitedStatesian (16,303 bytes) (rm duplicated template) 2008 02 16, 02:59 UnitedStatesian (16,316 bytes) (added template) 2008 02 16, 02:52 Deckiller m (16,316 bytes) (→Depth of coverage: slight trim) 2008 02 15, 18:52 Deckiller (16,331 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: fixing a couple redundant clauses; those tweaks look great Hiding, and I agree with the consensus issue; we shouldn't be summarizing every P and G) 2008 02 15, 18:09 Hiding (16,522 bytes) (→Summary style approach for sub-articles: remove a contradiction and better clarify) 2008 02 15, 14:35 Hiding (16,507 bytes) (→Summary style approach for sub-articles: decribe rather then proscribe) 2008 02 15, 14:33 Hiding (16,494 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: not so awkward?) 2008 02 15, 14:30 Hiding (16,666 bytes) (as before, this contradicts WP:BOLD) 2008 02 15, 14:29 Guest9999 (16,778 bytes) (chnage language a bit) 2008 02 15, 12:46 Deckiller m (16,788 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: tweaks) 2008 02 15, 11:56 Deckiller (16,922 bytes) (→Depth of coverage: tenses and overall tone is inconsistent with much of the guideline; copy-edit. lots of redundant points.) 2008 02 15, 11:38 Deckiller (16,891 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: round two; check my edits for accidental changes in meaning. editors notes) 2008 02 15, 11:24 Deckiller m (17,221 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: tweak.) 2008 02 15, 10:43 Deckiller m (17,231 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: I think the arbcom case states the concept clearly enough; there's no need to repeat what it says) 2008 02 15, 10:36 Deckiller (17,341 bytes) (copy-edit a few random paragraphs; editors notes included. still won't be an easy read for newcomers. should be compressed by a lot. many redundant points make organization difficult.) 2008 02 15, 10:31 Boomshadow m (17,768 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: "criteria" is a plural Ikip (talk) 18:41, 19 01 2009 (UTC)) 2008 02 15, 07:30 Masem (17,759 bytes) (→Summary style approach for sub-articles: including encouragement of redirection pages for sub-article list topics per talk page) 2008 02 14, 19:06 Deckiller m (17,467 bytes) (→Notable topics merit individual articles: rm sexist language) 2008 02 14, 05:34 Sgeureka (17,468 bytes) (grammar) 2008 02 13, 21:45 Guest9999 (17,482 bytes) (removing large hidden section which discussed the guideline - might be appropriate on the talk page) 2008 02 13, 21:19 Guest9999 (21,162 bytes) (remove words and make plural) 2008 02 13, 21:15 Hiding (21,172 bytes) (→Depth of coverage: try and rephrase) 2008 02 13, 14:48 Hiding (21,059 bytes) (→Summary style approach for sub-articles: rephrase) 2008 02 13, 14:37 Hiding (21,068 bytes) (→Summary style approach for sub-articles: remove mentions of word must, Wikipedia not proscriptive, also remove something which contradicts BOLD) 2008 02 13, 14:36 Sgeureka m (21,085 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: typo) 2008 02 13, 13:30 Sgeureka m (21,085 bytes) (→Summary style approach for sub-articles: rm duplicate word) 2008 02 13, 13:08 Guest9999 (21,092 bytes) (assuming godd faith means you don't have to state it at every turn - actions should always be in good faith and minor reword) 2008 02 13, 13:04 Guest9999 (20,952 bytes) (bold/italicising quote) 2008 02 13, 12:50 Guest9999 (20,946 bytes) (adding quote from arbcom page) 2008 02 13, 12:49 Guest9999 (20,710 bytes) (removed sentence that implied ownership of articles by individuals or Wikiprojects) 2008 02 13, 12:42 Guest9999 (20,875 bytes) (minor reword) 2008 02 13, 12:40 Ursasapien (20,624 bytes) (→Notable topics merit individual articles) 2008 02 13, 12:23 Ursasapien m (20,623 bytes) (sp) 2008 02 13, 08:37 Guest9999 (20,624 bytes) (there is only one list) 2008 02 13, 07:15 Guest9999 (20,643 bytes) (an essay should not be stated as a firm rule in a guideline - especially when the essay itself gives two opposing views) 2008 02 13, 07:12 Guest9999 (20,715 bytes) (summary style has nothing to do with notability it is a style guideline it recommends splitting fro style reasons not because a topic is worthy of an article or otherwise) 2008 02 13, 07:10 Malkinann (20,759 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: Please remember when merging to link the old article in your edit summary to comply with the GFDL. - it's in WP:MERGE, but can be missed) 2008 02 12, 23:07 S@bre (20,660 bytes) (If this is proposed, then surely the disputed tag no longer has meaning to this particluar version.) 2008 02 12, 09:54 Masem (20,697 bytes) (→Notable topics merit individual articles: adding/swap out examples per Nydas) 2008 02 11, 19:02 G.A.S m (20,665 bytes) (→Notes: Removed section - there are no notes) 2008 02 8, 05:24 Nydas (20,688 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: removed redundant sentence) 2008 02 6, 21:56 Masem (20,947 bytes) (→Summary style approach for sub-articles: Adding in portion of previous statement per talk page) 2008 02 6, 19:06 JohnCD m (20,478 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: typo) 2008 02 6, 11:19 Ned Scott (20,477 bytes) (eh, I think items is better. Sometimes an "item" isn't a physical object in the story) 2008 02 6, 08:09 Nydas (20,479 bytes) (replaced gamer jargon 'items' with 'objects') 2008 02 6, 08:00 Sam Korn m (20,477 bytes) (Reverted edits by 62.40.48.219 (talk) to last version by Ned Scott) 2008 02 5, 18:43 62.40.48.219 (Talk) (17 bytes) (←Replaced page with 'COMING SOON!!! :)') 2008 02 5, 18:43 Ned Scott (20,477 bytes) (→Summary style approach for sub-articles: since it's mentioned above, how's this? or, alternatively, "Though such sub-article need not demonstrate -independent- notability, they ...") 2008 02 5, 03:03 Masem (20,526 bytes) (→Summary style approach for sub-articles: adding a note for sourcing from primary for non-notable topics, rm a bunch of stuff moved to WAF long ago) 2008 02 5, 00:13 Masem (22,945 bytes) (→Notable topics merit individual articles: Better wording and examples (eg still summarize briefly notable topics in a larger article)) 2008 02 4, 20:14 Torc2 (22,396 bytes) (rv - Nydas was correct. Surely you can find another example that doesn't have subarticles and actually supports the assertion.) 2008 02 4, 19:59 Deckiller (22,434 bytes) (→Notable topics merit individual articles: reintroducing Characters of Final Fantasy VIII; I've only seen one person complain about the article (Nydas) - the two subarticles are well-sourced) 2008 02 4, 19:48 Ursasapien (22,396 bytes) (rv changes by Nydas; please discuss on talk page; we may need to wait until after ArbCom) 2008 02 4, 09:48 Nydas (21,498 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: replaced 'fictional universe' sci-fi/fantasy jargon with 'fiction') 2008 02 4, 08:55 Nydas (21,535 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: greatly shortened wording) 2008 02 4, 08:51 Nydas (21,842 bytes) (→Depth of coverage: re-removed dubious rule of thumb) 2008 02 4, 08:30 Malkinann m (22,396 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: Splitting long sentence into two shorter sentences for readability) 2008 02 2, 02:19 Lquilter (22,396 bytes) (→Notable topics merit individual articles: some (vague) => other (the other set)) 2008 02 1, 12:58 Masem (22,395 bytes) (Undid revision 188345573 by Nydas (talk) disagree on removal but reworded (talk page)) 2008 02 1, 12:46 Nydas (21,860 bytes) (→Depth of coverage: removed suggestion standalone works need less coverage than series works; far too many exceptions to say for sure) 2008 02 1, 09:08 Malkinann m (22,387 bytes) (→Relocating non-notable fictional material: linking m:Help:Transwiki) 2008 02 1, 05:41 Masem m (22,366 bytes) (→Notable topics merit individual articles) 2008 01 31, 16:26 Masem (22,365 bytes) (→Notable topics merit individual articles: As "Hell is Other Robots" is now an FA, it is a good example of a notable episode article to include) 2008 01 31, 16:26 Sgeureka (22,336 bytes) (+ For specific examples where you may be able to help, see Wikipedia:Fiction/Noticeboard. (snagged from other noticeboards)) 2008 01 31, 15:46 Hiding (22,250 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: It is now made) 2008 01 31, 15:25 Hiding (22,290 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: you can boldly merge, but) 2008 01 31, 10:40 Nydas (22,178 bytes) (→Summary style approach for sub-articles: removed suggestion that LOTR is an example of an article that got too big; it isn't) 2008 01 30, 21:07 Nydas (22,214 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: removed suggestion that one month is 'reasonable'; too long for video game weapons, too short for characters from literature) 2008 01 30, 21:04 Hiding (22,443 bytes) (close brackets) 2008 01 30, 16:41 Hiding (22,441 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: We also have some specific redirect templates, as seen at Category:Redirects by WikiProject so I think it's best we don't specify since it may cause) 2008 01 30, 16:40 Nydas m (22,577 bytes) (→Depth of coverage: typo) 2008 01 30, 15:21 Nydas (22,575 bytes) (→Depth of coverage: greatly shortened overlong first paragraph) 2008 01 30, 15:18 Nydas (22,865 bytes) (→Notable topics merit individual articles: removed Characters of Final Fantasy VIII, it has subarticles) 2008 01 30, 14:51 Masem (22,903 bytes) (→Dealing with non-notable fictional topics: adding in new redirection templates to merge discussion) 2008 01 30, 14:22 Nydas (22,668 bytes) (→Demonstrating notability for fictional topics: removed pedantic wording suggesting that the aim of an article is notability) 2008 01 30, 14:03 Masem (22,723 bytes) (→Depth of coverage: "fictional info" to "in-universe info" (otherwise sounds like false info), added 2 sentences about work complexity) 2008 01 30, 13:36 Hiding (22,471 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: maybe colons and semi-colns work better) 2008 01 30, 10:48 Hiding (22,468 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: adding an excerpt from WP:EP, slightly reformatted and without the BLP caveat as it doesn't apply, per my message on talk) 2008 01 30, 10:47 Masem (21,789 bytes) (per suggestion, biting the bullet and being BOLD to update with proposed (but still disputed) guideline) 2008 01 30, 01:27 Marlith m (10,505 bytes) (Reverted edits by 138.163.0.41 (talk) to last version by Nydas) 2008 01 27, 23:50 138.163.0.41 (Talk) (36 bytes) (←Replaced page with 'A dumbass idea if you ask me. period') 2008 01 27, 23:49 Nydas (10,505 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: removed ref to The Brothers Karamazov, see talk) 2008 01 17, 10:07 Deckiller m (10,851 bytes) (never mind - WP:N sitll isn't policy) 2008 01 16, 09:46 Deckiller m (10,873 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: clarify "policy") 2008 01 16, 09:45 Deckiller m (10,851 bytes) (copy-edit; everything looks good here. "ideally" may confuse the reader here, since "avoid" is the ideal situation, while "do not" would mean it's set in stone.) 2008 01 16, 09:40 Armando12 (10,822 bytes) (→Notes) 2007 12 23, 23:13 Verdatum (10,823 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: Update on List of Star Destroyers) 2007 12 21, 06:41 Ned Scott (10,760 bytes) (you've been pretty much acting on your own and rejecting anything you don't personally like. I'm getting tired of this) 2007 12 11, 23:00 Hiding (12,021 bytes) (please don't do that Ned, we've been bashing this out on the talk page and you're reverting isn't helpful) 2007 12 11, 22:55 Ned Scott (10,760 bytes) (Please use a proposal subpage before making large changes like this) 2007 12 11, 22:49 Hiding (12,021 bytes) (→Notable topics: add a phrase from Wikipedia:Summary style) 2007 12 11, 22:36 Hiding (11,973 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: just some tweaks, an article can only be deleted if you are an admin, we're targeting editors here and also mention redirection) 2007 12 11, 22:31 TTN (11,950 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: I think that makes it a bit clearer.) 2007 12 11, 22:15 Hiding (11,939 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: tlx on {{expert-specific}} example) 2007 12 11, 19:33 B. Wolterding (11,938 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: Specify notability tag. Doesn't work with subst:dated though. But users may rely on SmackBot for dating.) 2007 12 11, 18:59 Hiding (12,007 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: ooops, no it'll have to be this) 2007 12 11, 18:51 Hiding (12,009 bytes) (Take the point but primary sources aren't bad and this reflects policy at WP:V; does this work better?) 2007 12 11, 18:51 Masem (11,991 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: Allowing for "primary sources" to demonstrate notability opens too many cans of worms) 2007 12 11, 18:46 Hiding (12,003 bytes) (place that bit back into text and reword since transwiki can happen anytime) 2007 12 11, 18:42 Hiding (12,059 bytes) (rewrite to better reflect WP:N) 2007 12 11, 18:40 Kizor m (10,760 bytes) (fair enough, here's more people.) 2007 12 10, 22:23 Ned Scott (10,677 bytes) (whoa whoa, I don't disagree where you're going with this, but that large of a change should go into a draft subpage) 2007 12 10, 00:09 B. Wolterding (11,886 bytes) (→Transwiki: articles can be transwikied regardless whether the above options are available or unavailable) 2007 12 10, 00:08 Hiding (11,910 bytes) (more info from WP:N) 2007 12 9, 23:52 Hiding (15,429 bytes) (→Summarising: link) 2007 12 9, 23:46 Hiding (15,452 bytes) (→Notable topics: adding sections from summary style and deletion policy to give a broad outline of what this page should be discussing) 2007 12 9, 23:45 Ned Scott (10,677 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: we often have merge discussions outside of AfD) 2007 12 9, 23:14 TTN (10,686 bytes) (At this point, I only see one user actively disputing the whole thing on the talk page, so I'm going to remove the tag. It should only be put back if there are more people or something.) 2007 12 9, 22:04 Masem (10,702 bytes) (Undid revision 176685368 by DGG (talk) if disputed don't remove other info boxes) 2007 12 9, 02:01 DGG (10,204 bytes) (If we are arguing over whether its disputed, its dispured.) 2007 12 9, 01:53 10 TTN (10,686 bytes) (Actually, we have gotten to the point where we are just discussing disputed wording. As a whole, no one has really provided anything to show that it is disputed.) 2007 12 8, 23:58 The Rogue Penguin (10,769 bytes) (fix) 2007 12 8, 23:54 The Rogue Penguin (10,771 bytes) (It's also quite obviously disputed) 2007 12 8, 23:51 Ned Scott (10,686 bytes) (remove disputed tag, this is retarded) 2007 12 8, 23:31 Hiding (10,771 bytes) (like this?) 2007 12 8, 22:34 TTN (10,686 bytes) (You want the Template:Disputedtag, not proposed. Also, remove the other stuff until it is discussed more.) 2007 12 8, 22:27 DGG (11,217 bytes) (temporarily replaced tag removed, per MASEM) 2007 12 8, 22:23 DGG (11,296 bytes) (replaced tag per MASEM) 2007 12 8, 22:22 DGG (11,278 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: Summary stryle first draft to be continued) 2007 12 8, 21:32 Hiding (10,687 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: this is how WP:N has it) 2007 12 8, 21:27 TTN m (10,682 bytes) (Oops) 2007 12 8, 21:23 TTN (10,763 bytes) (Use the discussion that you created before randomly changing the context of this.) 2007 12 8, 21:22 DGG (10,933 bytes) (→Notable topics: additional clarification) 2007 12 8, 21:20 DGG (10,772 bytes) (→Notable topics: separate and sub articles.) 2007 12 8, 21:18 Masem (10,682 bytes) (Undid revision 176635675 by DGG (talk) This change overrides the defition of reliable secondary sources) 2007 12 8, 21:14 DGG (11,330 bytes) (sources and real world context--an attempt at consensus.) 2007 12 8, 21:11 Deckiller m (10,682 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: trim) 2007 12 8, 01:47 Deckiller m (10,692 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: flow) 2007 12 8, 01:46 Deckiller (10,625 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: reorder to proper flow) 2007 12 3, 18:02 Ned Scott (10,625 bytes) (premature WP:NOT#PLOT change) 2007 12 2, 23:57 Guest9999 (10,722 bytes) (fix mistake) 2007 12 2, 14:31 Guest9999 (10,753 bytes) (update to new text from WP:NOT#PLOT) 2007 12 2, 14:31 Ned Scott (10,625 bytes) (Undid revision 172935405 by Otto4711 (talk) so is that revert out of spite or what? don't be oversensitive on Wikipedia) 2007 11 24, 07:46 Ned Scott (10,526 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction) 2007 11 24, 07:45 Ned Scott (10,526 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: I think it was just meant to connect it stylistically to the other words in quotes. using italics instead) 2007 11 24, 07:45 Dorftrottel (10,520 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: "reliable secondary sources" -> removing quotmarks, which convey a sense of "so-called". there really are "secondary" "sources") 2007 11 23, 07:06 Otto4711 (10,522 bytes) (referring to people as "trigger boys" while making unnecessary edits is not very civil.) 2007 11 21, 17:05 Deckiller (10,621 bytes) (wording and a common sense line for those afd trigger boys) 2007 11 18, 15:49 Anomie (10,539 bytes) (rv vandalism) 2007 11 17, 05:31 Bignole (10,567 bytes) (Undid revision 172035233 by 152.23.100.247 (talk)) 2007 11 17, 05:04 152.23.100.247 (Talk) (10,581 bytes) 2007 11 17, 04:53 Kuru m (10,567 bytes) (Reverted edits by 75.50.189.191 (talk) to last version by Kuru) 2007 11 17, 04:36 75.50.189.191 (Talk) (637 bytes) 2007 11 17, 04:35 Kuru m (10,567 bytes) (Reverted edits by 71.238.2.233 (talk) to last version by 72.175.113.155) 2007 11 17, 04:26 71.238.2.233 (Talk) (20 bytes) (←Replaced page with ' == balls == ') 2007 11 17, 04:26 72.175.113.155 (Talk) (10,567 bytes) 2007 11 17, 04:24 68.41.157.186 (Talk) (10,538 bytes) 2007 11 17, 04:24 Ned Scott (10,539 bytes) (remove "new" message) 2007 11 16, 03:24 Ned Scott (10,914 bytes) (that's kind of the line the section is walking on) 2007 11 15, 23:01 Bignole (10,926 bytes) (→Notable topics: "strive" sounds like it's ok to not have real world content, it isn't because you'd be giving permission to have an article of nothing but plot info) 2007 11 15, 14:33 Bignole (10,914 bytes) (Undid revision 171080883 by Geni (talk) a discussion on a user talk page is not WP:CONSENSUS either) 2007 11 13, 00:13 Geni (10,690 bytes) (hanful of editors is not the community either. You claim "generally accepted" you prove it.) 2007 11 13, 00:11 TTN (10,914 bytes) (Fans != the community. Please poll those not involved in fiction before making such a claim.) 2007 11 12, 23:58 Geni (10,690 bytes) (User talk:TTN) 2007 11 12, 23:54 Bignole (10,914 bytes) (clear from what?) 2007 11 12, 23:32 Geni (10,782 bytes) (I feel it has become fairly clear that this page is not generaly accepted) 2007 11 12, 23:21 Father Goose (10,914 bytes) (→Notable topics: explaining the "real-world information" aspect better) 2007 10 31, 10:24 Father Goose (10,893 bytes) (restoring necessary addition, with two links to better underscore it) 2007 10 31, 10:11 Gorgan almighty (9,943 bytes) (rv: WP:FICT is an official guideline, not a proposal. Its contents are actively used in AfD and other processes, so its important that all the material in it has the approval of consensus.) 2007 10 31, 09:45 Ned Scott (10,871 bytes) (don't do that) 2007 10 30, 18:36 Gorgan almighty m (9,943 bytes) (→Notable topics: rewording lead) 2007 10 30, 16:36 Gorgan almighty (9,934 bytes) (→Notable topics: Removed controversial paragraph for the moment, as there is clearly no consensus for its inclusion. Discussion is still ongoing on the Talk page.) 2007 10 30, 16:35 G.A.S (10,871 bytes) (Update guideline layout: Move "Examples" down and rename to "Notes". Change notes to <ref></ref> format to provide clear crosslink between guideline and notes (Per WP:N example)) 2007 10 11, 11:21 G.A.S (10,786 bytes) (→Examples: Link to example pages' old revisions) 2007 10 7, 13:26 G.A.S m (10,323 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: spelling be → by) 2007 10 7, 13:20 Black Falcon (10,323 bytes) (→Dealing with fiction: deleting section: fanfiction is a subset of fiction and the section just repeats what is already said above and at WP:CRYSTAL) 2007 10 1, 18:42 Black Falcon (11,293 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: rm self-contradicting sentence: by definition, a notable subject (that has received substantial coverage in secondary source) cannot be too narrow in scope) 2007 10 1, 18:38 Black Falcon (11,488 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: rewriting section to make clear this is about deletion discussions) 2007 10 1, 18:37 Black Falcon (11,509 bytes) (→Notable topics: rmv sentence that is redundant to first point regarding "notability" and "encyclopedic treatment"; other fairly minor rewording) 2007 10 1, 18:21 Black Falcon (11,699 bytes) (→Notable topics: rm sentence fragment ... notability is determined by the presence of coverage in reliable secondary sources, not editorial decisions of content organisation) 2007 10 1, 18:15 Black Falcon (11,750 bytes) (rm sentence ... notability is a characteristic of *subjects*, it has nothing to do with the former, current, or future state of articles; some reorganising to remove redundancy) 2007 10 1, 18:11 Black Falcon (12,028 bytes) (moving/merging 2 sentences ... they are a matter of content organization and style and have nothing to do with defining notability; also, ideally, articles should be presented correctly from the start) 2007 10 1, 18:06 Black Falcon (12,146 bytes) (remove redundant sentence; updating excerpt from WP:N) 2007 10 1, 17:53 Black Falcon (12,342 bytes) (modifying nutshell per recent change) 2007 10 1, 17:49 Black Falcon m (12,336 bytes) (remove redundant "fictional" -- it limits the scope of the guideline substantially) 2007 10 1, 17:46 Black Falcon (12,346 bytes) (rewriting per talk page) 2007 10 1, 17:44 White Cat (12,421 bytes) (rv) 2007 09 25, 05:05 White Cat (12,436 bytes) (+{{RFCpolicy}}) 2007 09 25, 05:04 Dorftrottel (12,421 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: minor reword) 2007 09 23, 21:45 Masem (12,415 bytes) (→Notable topics: adding one note on third case here) 2007 09 22, 11:52 Ned Scott (12,298 bytes) (→Notable topics: Alright, I think this might be what is needed. Being bold and adding a point for sub-articles born from style) 2007 09 22, 06:55 Dorftrottel (11,788 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: this should really be emphasised, but feel free to revert) 2007 09 20, 22:32 Ned Scott (11,781 bytes) (rv, the proposal to merge notability sub-guidelines to WP:N was already rejected. The case for addressing individual situations, even if slightly redundant, has widespread support) 2007 09 17, 18:24 G.A.S (11,914 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: Merge template added) 2007 09 17, 18:19 Radiant! (11,781 bytes) (+ln) 2007 09 17, 11:44 Ned Scott (11,592 bytes) (not really sure where this should go.. but just to make it clear this isn't about works of fiction, but elements within fiction) 2007 09 16, 06:53 Montemor Courrège Faroe m (11,238 bytes) (+pt) 2007 09 12, 15:07 G.A.S (11,186 bytes) (Undid my changes per request.) 2007 09 7, 16:42 G.A.S (12,494 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: Rename section to "Articles not satisfying the notability guidelines") 2007 09 7, 15:19 G.A.S m (12,463 bytes) (→Examples: Links added) 2007 09 7, 15:17 G.A.S (12,150 bytes) (→Examples: Copy editing) 2007 09 7, 15:13 G.A.S (11,770 bytes) (→Examples: Describe the list to follow) 2007 09 7, 14:57 G.A.S (11,651 bytes) (→Fanfiction and unreleased fiction: Descriptive wording) 2007 09 7, 14:54 G.A.S (11,716 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: Descriptive wording) 2007 09 7, 14:46 G.A.S (11,766 bytes) (→Notable topics: Clarify, descriptive wording) 2007 09 7, 14:37 G.A.S (11,753 bytes) (→Dealing with fiction: Reinsets content removed from the previous section) 2007 09 7, 14:36 G.A.S (11,401 bytes) (→Primary criterion: Rewrite: expand content about secondary sources (adapted from Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies)) Removed content will be added elsewhere.) 2007 09 7, 14:32 G.A.S (11,189 bytes) (→Primary criterion: Insert link to Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline) 2007 09 7, 14:20 G.A.S (11,126 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: rename section to "Primary criterion") 2007 09 7, 14:20 G.A.S (11,140 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: rm (a major factor in the general notability guideline), it is unnecessary to say it, and it breaks the flow of the paragraph.) 2007 09 7, 14:11 G.A.S (11,193 bytes) (→Defining notability for fiction: "is" → "should be") 2007 09 7, 14:09 Ned Scott (11,186 bytes) 2007 09 7, 03:38 Ned Scott (11,186 bytes) 2007 09 7, 03:37 Stratadrake m (11,181 bytes) (→See also: resolving redirect) 2007 08 26, 18:21 Nydas (11,204 bytes) (→Examples: shortened some more) 2007 08 16, 17:04 Nydas (11,222 bytes) (→Examples: shortened wording) 2007 08 16, 17:01 Deckiller m (11,413 bytes) (→Examples: wording) 2007 08 12, 18:57 Deckiller m (11,404 bytes) (trimming some overly defensive wording) 2007 08 12, 18:56 Deckiller m (11,427 bytes) (→Examples: OOU -> real-world to avoid confusion) 2007 08 12, 18:56 Deckiller m (11,432 bytes) (update wording change) 2007 08 12, 18:55 Deckiller m (11,463 bytes) (→Dealing with fiction: seems a double-clarification is needed) 2007 08 12, 18:50 Deckiller m (11,386 bytes) (→Dealing with fiction: clarify) 2007 08 11, 14:36 Quasirandom m (11,376 bytes) (→Dealing with fiction: formatty (matching levels of indent)) 2007 08 11, 00:20 Deckiller m (11,382 bytes) (tweak to "for" blurb) 2007 08 10, 19:12 Nydas (11,410 bytes) (→Fanfiction and unreleased fiction: reworded to remove 'vanity', judgemental) 2007 08 10, 12:09 Deckiller m (11,461 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: clarify) 2007 08 10, 11:42 TKD (11,310 bytes) (-{{pp-semi-vandalism}} (despite date in template); protection has expired) 2007 08 10, 11:01 Ned Scott (11,355 bytes) (nifty update box, softens the blow, something like that..) 2007 08 10, 04:58 TKD m (10,978 bytes) (→Fanfiction and unreleased fiction: condense wikilink) 2007 08 10, 03:13 Deckiller m (10,991 bytes) (spacing) 2007 08 10, 01:50 TKD m (10,990 bytes) (oops) 2007 08 10, 01:46 TKD m (10,990 bytes) (re-arrange header tags per standard order (dab at top), move nutshellabove sidebar so that it's aligned with the other tags) 2007 08 10, 01:44 TKD m (10,990 bytes) (→Examples: hyphen) 2007 08 10, 01:09 TKD (10,990 bytes) (formatting cleanup (standard {{for}} template, ), some wikification) 2007 08 10, 01:06 TKD (10,630 bytes) (→Fanfiction and unreleased fiction: per talk, include exception for notable fan fiction) 2007 08 10, 00:47 TTN (10,397 bytes) (→Non-notable topics: Expand that sentence) 2007 08 10, 00:22 Deckiller (10,315 bytes) (implementing major update of Fiction Notability per the two month discussion on talkpage; some revision is probably still needed, but this is the next step) 2007 08 10, 00:01 Slowking Man m (9,826 bytes) (More specific template) 2007 08 8, 07:30 Slowking Man m (9,826 bytes) (Semi-protected for two days) 2007 08 8, 07:29 Slowking Man m (Protected Wikipedia:Notability (fiction): Vandalism from anonymous editors [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed] (expires 07:27, 08 10, 2007 (UTC))) 2007 08 8, 07:27 Pedro (9,781 bytes) (Undid revision 149931715 by 76.232.156.145 (talk)) 2007 08 8, 07:27 76.232.156.145 (Talk) (51 bytes) (←Replaced page with 'WARNING: This is your subtle hint. FUCKDADGENESS!!!') 2007 08 8, 07:27 Pedro (9,781 bytes) (Undid revision 149931694 by 71.114.65.12 (talk)) 2007 08 8, 07:27 71.114.65.12 (Talk) (15 bytes) (←Replaced page with 'RAWR Ebaums') 2007 08 8, 07:27 Pedro (9,781 bytes) (Undid revision 149931671 by 68.9.57.122 (talk)) 2007 08 8, 07:27 68.9.57.122 (Talk) (4 bytes) (←Replaced page with 'RAWR') 2007 08 8, 07:27 Pedro (9,781 bytes) (Undid revision 149931631 by 189.194.82.227 (talk)) 2007 08 8, 07:27 189.194.82.227 (Talk) (9,760 bytes) 2007 08 8, 07:26 DeadEyeArrow m (9,781 bytes) (Reverted to revision 149931173 by DeadEyeArrow; rv, vandalism. using TW) 2007 08 8, 07:26 68.218.45.139 (Talk) (7 bytes) 2007 08 8, 07:26 207.144.74.41 (Talk) (25 bytes) (←Replaced page with 'I has set us up the bomb.') 2007 08 8, 07:26 71.114.65.12 (Talk) (9,816 bytes) 2007 08 8, 07:25 DeadEyeArrow m (9,781 bytes) (Reverted 1 edit by 74.136.178.248 to last revision by Hdt83. using TW) 2007 08 8, 07:22 74.136.178.248 (Talk) (9,783 bytes) 2007 08 8, 07:21 Hdt83 m (9,781 bytes) (Reverted 2 edits by 74.136.178.248 identified as vandalism to last revision by Luna Santin.) 2007 08 8, 07:20 74.136.178.248 (Talk) (3 bytes) 2007 08 8, 07:20 74.136.178.248 (Talk) (←Blanked the page) 2007 08 8, 07:20 Luna Santin m (9,781 bytes) (Reverted edits by 203.40.178.241 (talk) to last version by Ryulong) 2007 08 8, 07:05 203.40.178.241 (Talk) (7,872 bytes) 2007 08 8, 07:05 Ryulong m (9,781 bytes) (Reverted edits by 203.40.178.241 (talk) to last version by Deckiller) 2007 08 8, 07:03 203.40.178.241 (Talk) (6,051 bytes) (→Fiction in Wikipedia) 2007 08 8, 07:03 Deckiller m (9,781 bytes) (→Fiction in Wikipedia: typo) 2007 08 5, 19:07 Deckiller (9,778 bytes) (→Fiction in Wikipedia: clarify) 2007 08 3, 20:43 TTN (9,767 bytes) (Let's see if putting emphasis on WAF will make people stop ignoring it.) 2007 08 3, 18:06 Nydas (9,706 bytes) (removed 'initially' from 'initially created', no different from 'initially started' or 'initially begun') 2007 07 18, 20:57 Ned Scott (9,716 bytes) (less is not always more. think about those who will read this and which wording will likely make more sense to them, and be of more help) 2007 07 18, 20:04 Nydas (9,635 bytes) (→Details: more concise) 2007 07 18, 19:41 Ckatz (9,716 bytes) (rm. NS text - the page is currently unstable. Reconsider when things settle down.) 2007 07 17, 18:25 Thewinchester m (9,881 bytes) (Reverted to revision 145246243 by Thewinchester. using TW) 2007 07 17, 16:40 NobutoraTakeda (9,716 bytes) (I made it clear why and it is obvious that the Noonie Song page has no sources and cannot be used as an example of fiction.) 2007 07 17, 16:19 Thewinchester m (9,881 bytes) (Reverted 1 edit by NobutoraTakeda to last revision by Deckiller; Reverting change as not discussed at talk first, and article in question is a current article. using TW) 2007 07 17, 16:16 NobutoraTakeda (9,716 bytes) (Removed Noonie Song, it has only one source that only says he exists, does not have any third party information, no non in-universe information, doesn't fit notability requirements on his own) 2007 07 17, 16:01 Deckiller m (9,881 bytes) (typo) 2007 07 5, 18:50 Deckiller (9,878 bytes) (notice) 2007 07 5, 18:49 Tony1 (9,727 bytes) 2007 06 10, 02:45 Gurch m (9,646 bytes) (sortkey) 2007 06 7, 14:46 Gurch m (9,651 bytes) (fix) 2007 06 7, 14:46 Sesshomaru (9,650 bytes) (extra shortcut placed in box) 2007 05 25, 01:04 Jbolden1517 (9,630 bytes) (rv to may 17, example proves point) 2007 05 23, 00:53 TTN (9,465 bytes) (→Examples: Cut an example that doesn't show quality) 2007 05 22, 21:02 TheFarix (9,630 bytes) (Undid revision 131624509 by Elonka (talk) Let's not be placing arbitrary size limits) 2007 05 17, 23:17 Elonka (9,731 bytes) (→Related topics: - Added links to relevant WikiProject guidelines) 2007 05 17, 20:49 Elonka (9,389 bytes) (→Fiction in Wikipedia: - adding size of 500-1000 words to "plot summaries" section) 2007 05 17, 20:43 Elonka (9,288 bytes) (→Examples: - Added links to WP:GA and WP:FA lists) 2007 05 17, 17:27 Deckiller (9,044 bytes) (→Examples: update) 2007 05 12, 15:57 Pinball22 m (9,040 bytes) (Fixed typo.) 2007 05 1, 16:01 Uncle G (Linked.) 2007 03 16, 22:15 Deckiller (→Examples: added new example) 2007 03 15, 19:30 Ned Scott (←Undid revision 110126552 by 84.67.2.125 (talk)) 2007 03 8, 05:39 Deckiller m (→Examples: encyclopedic -> encyclopedia) 2007 03 8, 04:55 Deckiller m (→Examples: update) 2007 03 8, 04:55 84.67.2.125 (Talk) (→Examples) 2007 02 22, 19:07 CmdrObot m (sp: encylopedic→encyclopedic) 2007 01 28, 21:07 OpenToppedBus m (→Fiction in Wikipedia: typo) 2007 01 22, 11:49 Kunzite (→Fiction in Wikipedia: book -> work hyperlinked becomes long to WP:SIZE) 2007 01 21, 21:06 Ned Scott 2007 01 18, 08:24 82.2.61.252 (Talk) (match WP:NOT) 2007 01 13, 20:28 82.9.17.97 (Talk) (sharpen it up; copyedit; moved examples to right place) 2007 01 11, 14:24 Radiant! m (→Details: -caveat) 2006 12 29, 17:30 Davidbspalding m (→Details: and two more wikilinks, Fan fiction and fanfiction.net) 2006 12 10, 15:31 Davidbspalding m (→Details: added link to Vanity press) 2006 12 10, 15:28 Deckiller (→Being bold: clarify) 2006 12 7, 03:27 Poccil (→Being bold) 2006 11 18, 02:59 an encyclopaedia" --> "Shrugge", "Flies|an encyclopaedia" --> "Flie", "Men|an encyclopaedia" --> "Me", -"encyclopaedia";) 2006 11 13, 20:55 Poccil (→Examples: -"]), whereas some of these items have or will have separate pages on [[Wikibooks:Final Fantasy|the Final Fantasy Wikibooks"; Final Fantasy WikiBook is now being listed for deletion) 2006 10 12, 03:38 Shii 2006 09 26, 16:09 TKD m (→Fiction in Wikipedia: wikify redirect) 2006 09 25, 09:23 Ned Scott (rv, that's why we used the words "encyclopedic treatment" :)) 2006 09 25, 04:12 71.198.244.211 (Talk) 2006 09 25, 04:11 Ned Scott (this really sums it up) 2006 09 18, 04:30 Ned Scott (→Related topics: horray for related topics!) 2006 09 18, 04:26 Catherine breillat m (→Fiction in Wikipedia: bring in line with Wikipedia:Manual of Style (writing about fiction)) 2006 09 10, 10:26 Trevyn (→Examples: style, clarity, add redirect explanation, removed Zero (Mega Man) as third example of essentially the same thing) 2006 09 9, 08:45 Radiant! (clear up unnecessary dichotomy) 2006 09 8, 15:40 A Man In Black (restore only mildly controversial edit) 2006 09 5, 04:01 Kunzite (revert. Please discuss those changes on talk first.) 2006 09 3, 05:45 Kyorosuke (→Fiction in Wikipedia: why is it that everytime I look at this thing it's turned to shit...) 2006 09 3, 03:46 CP\M (→Related topics: It's not a guideline, but an essay; reworded to make it more visible.) 2006 08 14, 17:58 TKD m (→Fiction in Wikipedia: slightly less awward wording; no change in meaning intended) 2006 08 13, 20:19 Kaustuv (→Fiction in Wikipedia: see: Wikipedia talk:Notability (fiction)#additional request) 2006 08 12, 01:19 DragonHawk m (→Related topics: fix category link) 2006 07 24, 13:20 SMcCandlish m (Fixing category link) 2006 07 23, 15:31 Furby100 m (→Being bold) 2006 07 19, 21:14 (chubbstar) 2006 07 14, 09:16 Tawkerbot2 m (BOT - rv 84.9.41.117 (talk) to last version by Draicone) 2006 07 10, 18:55 84.9.41.117 (Talk) (→Related topics) 2006 07 10, 18:55 Draicone m (Some spellcheck using AWB) 2006 07 9, 01:45 Deckiller m (→Fiction in Wikipedia: +and lists) 2006 07 2, 22:07 Deckiller (→Fiction in Wikipedia: trying to word a new sentence correctly, emphasizing that some universes may have enough potential for encyclopedic coverage outside of the restrictions of the parent articl) 2006 07 2, 22:06 Deckiller (→Fiction in Wikipedia: adding an example showing how number 4 should be dealt with) 2006 06 30, 18:49 Deckiller m (→Being bold: further wording improvements. I must be tired, for I can't seem to write tonight.) 2006 06 30, 06:18 Deckiller (→Being bold: wording) 2006 06 30, 06:17 Deckiller (→Being bold: expanding the new idea of turning lists of terms into actual articles) 2006 06 30, 06:16 Catherine breillat m (→Details: +WAF) 2006 06 28, 14:02 Kyorosuke m (Oops, that should have said "re-add this *only* if and only if it has consensus among editors"; my apologies.) 2006 06 25, 04:57 Kyorosuke (→Definition of Notability: Yet again. See talk page, and *do not* re-add this if and only if there is a consensus among editors.) 2006 06 25, 03:56 Mennsa m (→Example: "Normal Bates"? :) 2006 06 23, 17:16 Deckiller m (→Being bold: wording) 2006 06 22, 18:20 Deckiller m (→Being bold: my bad; "overly detailed" is a fancruft matter) 2006 06 22, 18:20 Deckiller m (→Making good use of Wikibooks and Wikisource: adding another example for gamers) 2006 06 22, 18:19 Deckiller m (→Being bold: more clarify) 2006 06 22, 18:15 Deckiller m (→Being bold: expanding a bit) 2006 06 22, 18:14 Deckiller m (→Being bold: clarify) 2006 06 22, 18:12 Jbolden1517 (fix browser issue) 2006 06 22, 16:13 Jbolden1517 (new village pump and Notability general) 2006 06 22, 16:12 Kyorosuke (→Definition of Notability: Again, no. There has been no discussion on the talk page, or anywhere, aside from some seeingly nonexistant "village pump discussion".) 2006 06 22, 01:58 Deckiller m (→Definition of Notability: wording) 2006 06 20, 17:30 Jbolden1517 (100% of village pump agreed with me. If you don't then explain your reasons) 2006 06 20, 17:21 Kyorosuke (→Definition of Notability: What the hell again? No. You get consensus *to add this*, not the other way around.) 2006 06 20, 16:03 Phil Boswell m (fix broken link using AWB) 2006 06 20, 11:24 Jbolden1517 (village pump proved there is no consensus) 2006 06 18, 04:44 Jbolden1517 (rv. What does any of that have to do with notability?) 2006 06 3, 21:49 TheDJ m (update templatename) 2006 06 3, 21:41 TheDJ (Merged Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Television episodes into this guideline. reordered and rewritten large parts to make the guideline more readeable) 2006 06 3, 21:36 Kyorosuke m (→Fiction in Wikipedia: Remove "cultural icon" thing again-- If you care about it, go the to talk page, but I'm not getting anything but silence. So, yeah.) 2006 05 31, 02:34 Kyorosuke m (Um, no.*You* argue on talk that it *can* be, before adding something new. Don't just add criteria based on nothing other than your own opinions or standards without discussion beforehand.) 2006 05 27, 13:59 Jbolden1517 (argue on talk not in edit summary, Prove their can't be hard and fast criteria) 2006 05 27, 13:55 Kyorosuke m (Notability cannot be quantified into hard and fast criteria.) 2006 05 27, 02:23 Jbolden1517 (→Fiction in Wikipedia: guidelines for notability) 2006 05 27, 02:01 Thivierr (rv - the icon criteria (in some form) has been in place for over a year; some agreement on talk should occur before removing it) 2006 05 25, 05:43 Kyorosuke (→Fiction in Wikipedia: Remove silliness- Any character who is a "cultural icon" will meet the other criteria too, and the phrasing gives "cultural icon" a far too broad meaning.) 2006 05 25, 05:39 Mellery (Fixing links to disambiguation pages using AWB) 2006 05 23, 19:04 Thivierr (rv - This is a major change, with no basis in AFD, no reason for special treatment of movies) 2006 05 18, 18:27 Jbolden1517 m (→Notability of Movie and Computer Game Characters, Places and Objects: : in title) 2006 05 18, 18:16 Jbolden1517 (→Notability of Movie and Computer Game Characters, Places and Objects: incorporate rob's points) 2006 05 18, 18:13 Jbolden1517 (Notability of Movie and Game Characters (see talk)) 2006 05 18, 17:35 Randall Brackett m (→Examples: -grammer) 2006 05 14, 08:04 84.72.181.71 (Talk) (+de:) 2006 05 9, 20:25 Thivierr (→Examples: Give example of minor, but notable, character from recent AFD; again, feel free to revert+discuss if you oppose my edits) 2006 04 25, 22:31 Thivierr (→Fiction in Wikipedia) 2006 04 25, 19:39 Thivierr (→Fiction in Wikipedia: Changed to open the door to notable minor characters; If opposed, please revert me, and let's discuss on talk page; I feel this reflects AFD precedent) 2006 04 25, 19:34 Neilc m (sp) 2006 04 21, 22:46 Ejph (→Related topics) 2006 04 21, 00:21 Thivierr (→Examples: Lionel Hutz has his own article; the example is out-of-date (as is this whole guideline)) 2006 04 12, 06:03 Randall Brackett (→Examples: -added two more) 2006 03 22, 18:34 Locke Cole (place shortcuts in header) 2006 01 30, 20:27 Deckiller m (→Being bold: adding "original research") 2006 01 25, 22:08 Melaen m (→Examples) 2006 01 17, 22:06 Melaen (changed an example) 2006 01 17, 22:05 Melaen (→Examples) 2006 01 17, 21:54 Radiant! ({{Wikipedia subcat guideline|notability criteria}}) 2006 01 17, 12:20 The Wookieepedian (→Examples: added star wars) 2006 01 12, 13:23 Stevage (Change guideline template to include shortcut) 2006 01 7, 11:44 CyberSkull m (→Examples: italics) 2005 12 24, 07:20 Jiy m (moved Wikipedia:Fiction to Wikipedia:Notability (fiction)) 2005 12 12, 20:58 Radiant! ({{IncGuide}}) {{IncGuide}} Timwi (→Details: copyedit) 2005 11 27, 13:58 Uncle G (→Making good use of Wikibooks and Wikisource: Linked to Wikisource article.) 2005 11 8, 04:16 Android79 m (Reverted edits by 71.106.242.89 to last version by Jnothman) 2005 11 4, 19:53 71.106.242.89 (Talk) (→Related topics) 2005 11 4, 19:51 Jnothman m (→Fiction in Wikipedia: link; grammar) 2005 11 2, 01:54 Interiot (recategorize Notability criteria => Subject-specific notability criteria) 2005 11 1, 13:53 Radiant! (→Fiction in Wikipedia: not actually disputed, simply a minor misunderstanding) 2005 10 29, 12:28 Beland (Categorize) 2005 10 29, 05:46 Rdsmith4 (→Fiction in Wikipedia: Note that the second guideline is disputed) 2005 10 28, 16:15 Amberrock (→Examples: minus recently) 2005 10 24, 18:49 A Man In Black m (→Examples: bypass redir and grammar) 2005 10 5, 15:40 Jeffq m (→Details: punct tweaks) 2005 08 10, 22:24 Jeffq m (→Fiction in Wikipedia: slightly more parallel grammar) 2005 08 10, 22:19 Lochaber (order re-org / plot summaries) 2005 08 4, 08:55 Uncle G (→Making good use of Wikibooks and Wikisource: Added) 2005 08 4, 01:59 Radiant! (→Fiction in Wikipedia: merge summary thing back in) 2005 07 29, 17:39 Jamesmusik (→Fiction in Wikipedia) 2005 07 28, 15:34 Radiant! m (→Fiction in Wikipedia: bolden) 2005 07 21, 08:22 Radiant! (→Fiction in Wikipedia: warn against lengthy summaries) 2005 07 21, 08:17 Hiding (→Fiction in Wikipedia: added some text back that I shouldn't have removed) 2005 07 15, 12:17 Hiding m (→Fiction in Wikipedia: emboldened text) 2005 07 15, 12:14 Hiding (being bold: -text to third clause that is uninformative, as per discussion on talk page.) 2005 07 15, 12:12 Anville m (→Examples: italicize) 2005 07 10, 20:04 Radiant! m (copyedit) 2005 06 19, 16:40 Oberiko m (→Fiction in Wikipedia) 2005 06 19, 15:47 Gtrmp m (→Related topics: cross-namespace redirect, no soup for you) 2005 06 13, 05:59 Radiant! m (→Fiction in Wikipedia: clarify #3) 2005 06 2, 15:11 Radiant! (guideline, not proposal (see talk page)) 2005 06 1, 07:34 Kbdank71 (recategorize as per cfd) 2005 05 31, 17:07 Lochaber m (→Details: typo) 2005 05 31, 12:41 Lochaber (→Details: added ref to Wikipedia:Deletion policy/Middle-earth items a lot of discussion was also done there.) 2005 05 31, 12:39 Gracefool m (added line break) 2005 05 31, 01:41 Gracefool (this is a proposal. It isn't very old, and has little consensus) 2005 05 31, 01:38 24.224.153.40 (Talk) (rv) 2005 05 27, 22:10 24.224.153.40 (Talk) (subst) 2005 05 27, 22:10 Netoholic {{guideline}} 2005 05 16, 16:49 Hoary m (→Being bold: rewording a single phrase (and not being bold at all)) 2005 05 15, 06:44 Radiant! (reword transcendence) 2005 05 9, 14:17 JosephBarillari (added fancruft link) 2005 05 1, 07:12 Radiant! (→Details: fanfiction clause) 2005 04 11, 10:05 Mrwojo m (→Examples: "Middle Earth" -> "Middle-earth") 2005 04 9, 00:49 Radiant! (→Details) 2005 04 7, 08:03 Radiant! (added warning not to delete content) 2005 04 6, 14:47 Cburnett (Revert to semipolicy) 2005 04 6, 02:54 Cburnett (Change to NOT POLICY because I see no discussion on this nor any community consensus other than from the 3 people that have editted this page) 2005 04 6, 02:01 UninvitedCompany ({{semipolicy}}) 2005 04 5, 20:36 Korath m ({{shortcut}}) 2005 03 29, 13:06 Radiant! (→Details) 2005 03 29, 12:38 Radiant! 2005 03 29, 12:36 Radiant! (add to cat) 2005 03 29, 12:33 Radiant! (→Details) 2005 03 29, 12:22 Radiant! 2005 03 29, 12:18 Jguk 2 m 2004 11 20, 08:53 MartinHarper m (#redirect wikipedia:check your fiction) 2003 03 09, 09:42

Full Edit history of talk page

Edits on the talk page since 17 November 2008, (17 November 2008 is when activity started to pick up significantly (number of edits does not reflect the 28 acts of vandalism, and repair on January 14, and two on 8 December 2008)).

Full Graph

Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions

Page created on 19:35, 6 August 2006 with section: What about article x? by Daduzi.

WP:OTHERSTUFF

10:44, 18 December 2006 JzG (coins?) the "crap articles exist" term, adding the term for the first time to the page.

07:20, 26 January 2007 Wikipedia:Othercrapexists redirect created.

03:35, 7 September 2007 Wikipedia:OTHERCRAPEXISTS redirect created.

WP:OTHERSTUFF

* Average Time Between Edits User # edits # Minor edits (%) First edit Last edit ATBE* Jc37 130 39 30.0% 2007-11-15 22:14 2009-03-24 22:31 3.8 d A Man In Black 49 0 0.0% 2007-07-11 15:57 2009-04-14 08:26 13.4 d Reinoutr 43 0 0.0% 2006-08-07 10:17 2007-07-31 06:55 8.5 d Sebwite 41 16 39.0% 2008-07-31 00:38 2009-07-03 22:19 8.4 d SMcCandlish 36 32 88.9% 2007-09-20 22:44 2008-12-04 11:25 12.6 d Dhaluza 27 2 7.4% 2007-06-22 10:31 2008-08-03 19:22 15.7 d UnitedStatesian 26 0 0.0% 2007-04-27 21:04 2009-05-22 11:52 30.2 d Rossami 19 0 0.0% 2007-03-09 15:46 2009-07-07 20:47 47.3 d Ben 18 6 33.3% 2007-02-19 18:17 2007-02-21 00:21 106:04 m Otto4711 14 1 7.1% 2007-03-04 00:28 2008-09-02 00:21 42.2 d DGG 14 0 0.0% 2007-02-06 20:46 2008-08-26 01:59 43.6 d Sjakkalle 13 3 23.1% 2007-04-13 07:22 2007-10-10 12:47 15.0 d Stevertigo 11 11 100.0% 2009-03-16 22:40 2009-03-18 02:33 2:47 h Bearcat 11 0 0.0% 2008-01-09 10:30 2009-03-14 22:35 43.1 d Meshach 11 8 72.7% 2007-08-06 21:45 2008-01-27 17:41 17.4 d Halo 11 0 0.0% 2007-06-13 02:28 2007-09-30 15:24 11.0 d Orangemike 9 0 0.0% 2009-03-26 18:20 2009-04-29 13:33 4.2 d CharlotteWebb 9 4 44.4% 2007-06-11 21:13 2008-10-11 14:13 61.0 d A Nobody 9 0 0.0% 2007-12-15 09:42 2008-09-06 23:02 33.3 d The Evil Spartan 9 2 22.2% 2007-07-10 14:52 2008-07-19 23:53 46.9 d FT2 9 7 77.8% 2007-07-11 00:41 2007-09-23 09:51 9.3 d Radiant! 9 1 11.1% 2006-12-29 11:50 2007-09-10 13:39 31.9 d Rockstar915 9 1 11.1% 2007-06-08 23:47 2007-06-12 22:16 11:48 h Amarkov 9 2 22.2% 2006-12-17 15:45 2007-06-08 23:29 21.7 d

Wikipedia:Other stuff exists

• 22:07, 19 December 2007 Now banned user VigilancePrime creates new fork article.

From User:Jorge Stolfi

Found here: [38]

When the {{unreferenced}} tag was developed, straw poll was held *among the editors who had designed it* about where it should be placed. There were about 30 votes cast (out of a universe of perhaps 10,000 regular editors). These comprised 9 votes for for "top of article page", 10 votes for "bottom of article page", and 13 votes for "talk page". Needless to say, the obvious fourth alternative "nowhere" was not even in the ballot.

So, if that tag is now showing at the top of hundred of thousands of articles, it is because nine editors wanted it there, twenty-three did *not* want it there, and 9,970 editors did not have a chance to give their opinion.

A similar story applies to the Wikipedia:Notability guidelines. I found a straw poll in the Notability talk page about a dozen or so specific questions. The questions were all in jargon (like "PROD" in this RfC) which I was unable to decipher, so presumably only the people who had been involved in the writing of the guidelines voted. There were less than 200 votes, and some of the items in the ballot passed with a tight majority — that is, less than 1% of the pool of active editors. Unfortunately I could not determine whether the final declared "consensus" honored these votes, or — as in the case of the {{unreferenced}} tag — the minority opinion prevailedanyway.

See also

• WP:NOMORE
• Academic studies about Wikipedia#Power plays
• Criticism of Wikipedia#Editorial process
• User:Pixelface/Timeline of notability guidelines
• User:Pixelface/Unique editors of policies and guidelines
• Wikipedia:Notability/Historical/Non-notability/Essay
• Wikipedia:Notability/Historical/Non-notability
• Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Episodes and characters
• Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Episodes and characters 2
• Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration:Characters and Episodes 3
  • TTN himself has said in the past that his behaviour is solely intended to remove material and not to improve it. "I'm just sticking with picking off smaller ones, and then trying to tackle larger ones every once and a while. Once the weaklings are fully gone, it'll probably get easier to deal with the larger ones."