Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2009 August 20

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August 20

Education system in Bangladesh

Is there a site where they show type of schools based on grades (e.g. gr.1, gr.2, etc.) in Bangladesh? So far, I know that Gr.11 and Gr.12 means you are in college and if you pass metric meaning Gr.10, it means you pass high school. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.54.166 (talk) 01:15, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Please sign your post by typing four tildes (~~~~) or clicking the signature button above the edit box which looks like this: . Do NOT sign in articles.

I'm checking it out now. Just wait a couple of seconds and I'll come back with an answer! --Srinivas (talk) 07:07, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

World Trade Center site

before the construction of the world trade center in NY what was in the are before? what neighborhoods, landmarks, parks were there? and are there any photographs of the area before the WTC? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.98.64.15 (talk) 07:41, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

This site [1] (including lots of interesting details on the construction and some photos) indicates that it was part of the Hudson River / NY Port which was filled. They mention that excavations may find old wharves or even buried ships. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 08:37, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

According to the PBS documentary, part of it was a street with a lot of radio / electronics shops... AnonMoos (talk) 16:53, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Our article Radio Row has some coverage of the former neighborhood. This Google search turns up some images. Marco polo (talk) 17:33, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Scipio the younger death (129 BC)

Scipio Aemilianus Africanus's death of 129 BC seems to be a mystery, with three possibilities. Suffocation has some interest to me as a good option. Apparently at that time they burned charcoal as evening lighting. Charcoal burns much oxygen and if the room (i.e. bedroom) Scipio was using for writing up his speech against the agrarian proposals of the Gracchi was enclosed (intentionally or accidently) could he have run out of good breathable air? His speech would have been long, so perhaps he took hours to write it up and maybe fell asleep in the process - never to wake up.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 14:58, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

It's possible, although it seems unlikely that the Romans would construct unventilated rooms, both because they only had fire for illumination and cooking, and because of the outside heat. The Gracchi probably had something to do with it... Adam Bishop (talk) 18:39, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Sounds logical of the work of the Gracchi and/or perhaps Cornelia, mother of the Gracchi. Maybe even Sempronia, since she was their sister. Maybe they (his enemies) closed the vents to the bedroom he was sleeping in, which would be death by suffocation. Suffocation is referenced here as a possibility. Could a bedroom be referred to as a "lower chamber"? --Doug Coldwell ^talk 19:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

That author, Ian Worthington, actually concludes that Scipio had a bad day, ate and drank too much back home, and choked on his vomit while he was sleeping. Our article says there were wounds on his body, but Worthington says Plutarch remarks that there were only rumours of wounds. Worthington's other possibilities are some sort of scheme by Cornelia and Sempronia, suicide, and murder by political enemies (Italians, Romans, or the Senate), but he rejects those. I don't know about the sources here, or the authority of modern historians, so hopefully there is a real classicist around who can help you out, but that, at least, is what the rest of Worthington's article says. Adam Bishop (talk) 19:25, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for looking further as to what Ian Worthington said. In this source it says Gaius Papirius Carbo may have caused him to be strangled.

Would a bedroom have been referred to as a "lower chamber" in those days?

To confirm, then typically Scipio would have in all likelihood burned a few fires for lighting to see to be able to write a speech on his tablet. Correct?--Doug Coldwell ^talk 20:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

This source talks further of the marks on Scipio's body.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 20:30, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Where's CSI: Ancient Rome when you really need it? Clarityfiend (talk) 23:41, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

"Now that we have assembled all the suspects into the courtyard, I shall cut the head off of this chicken and the fates will guide it to the culprit." Googlemeister (talk) 16:42, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

That chicken will never stand up in court (or anywhere else). Clarityfiend (talk) 01:54, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Economic state of Britain, circa 1965-68

Hi all. I'm a History MA student currently trying to desperately finish his dissertation, which is devoted to analysing government and public attitudes towards civil defence in post-war Britain between 1945 and 1968. I'm at the very end, essentially, looking at why exactly the Wilson government decided to end the Civil Defence Corps in March 1968. One of the main reasons I've pegged is the need to economize - something all British governments needed to do post-war. However, economics has never been my strong suit, and lookign through my secondary sources is getting a tad confusing. Was there some kind of economic problem the country was facing during that period - a recession, a slump, a run on the pound? I'd be dead greatful if someone could give me a clue about that - I can hook out a reference from my secondary sources after that. Cheers for your help. Skinny87 (talk) 16:13, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, while it's by no means a complete list, Wikipedia's Category:Labour disputes in the United Kingdom gives only one industrial action during the 60s, the Power dispute of 1964. The Economy of the United Kingdom says Following the end of World War II, there was a long interval without a major recession (1945 - 1973) and a growth in prosperity in the 1950s and 1960s. According to the OECD, the annual rate of growth (percentage change) between 1960 and 1973 averaged 2.9%., but the references are books so I don't know if they have more detail. This h2g2 article also suggests it was pretty smooth sailing economically, although doesn't have much data. As far as the overall economy goes, I think it's safe to say it was growing during that period, but I think it'd be equally safe to say there were probably some areas of the country and economy that had some sort of problem... I'll try and find the actual figures for the size of the economy. TastyCakes (talk) 16:30, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

This OECD site gives some relevant data. It doesn't give the GDP for Britain during that period for some reason, but it shows household consumption increased throughout those years. TastyCakes (talk) 16:45, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, that was...unexpected. Thanks anyway. Damn, I was sure there were economic troubles. Skinny87 (talk) 17:11, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I guess 1968 (before the oil shocks) was a lot closer to Swinging London than the Winter of Discontent... AnonMoos (talk) 17:47, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually, you are probably onto something. Check out our article I'm Backing Britain. During the 1960s, the expansion of the British state outran the expansion of its economy, leading to government budget deficits and contributing to inflation, both of which put pressure on the pound sterling. In 1967, the government of Harold Wilson was forced to devalue the pound sterling, which would have added to inflationary pressures. So, while the economy was expanding (though rather slowly in real terms in the late 1960s), the state faced growing claims on a limited revenue stream and was forced to prioritize. Roadbuilding, building of housing estates, and expansion of the national health service could all have been higher priorities for a Labour government than civil defense. Marco polo (talk) 17:56, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Marco, you are a real life-saver, cheers! That's exactly what I need - and the article is even sourced, which is a bonus. Thanks all, that should mean this is resolved now. Skinny87 (talk) 18:17, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Be sure to attribute the main author of the article, I'm sure he'd appreciate it. Or his literary pseudonym would. Sam Blacketer (talk) 23:57, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Here's another source, that suggests something useful: "(This is in strong contrast, for instance, to the the year 1968, where the recent opening of the archives has revealed a depth of Treasury panic, apparent in the absurd contingency plan "Operation Brutus" which was previously quite unsuspected)."(http://www.samuelbrittan.co.uk/spee4_p.html) DOR (HK) (talk) 08:06, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Mass murder in Ancient Rome

I'm reading the book Roma, by Steven Saylor, which is a fictionalized history of Rome up to the time of the Emperors. He mentions running across an episode in Livy where Livy talks about a strange plague running through the rich men of Rome where they were dying from mysterious sources. According to Livy, and incorporated into Saylor's story, a large group (upwards of 70) of matrons were poisoning the rich men for a variety of reasons. They were apparently organized, and teaching each other poisoning techniques. Has any other historian written about this episode? It occurred in 332 BC. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 18:56, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Seems to be 331, actually - here is the text of Livy about the event (in Latin) (and notes). Here is a translation of Book 8 - it's in chapter 18. I typed "livy matrons poisoning rich" into Google books and there seems to be a few discussions of it. Adam Bishop (talk) 19:16, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Adam, but what I'm wondering is, are there any other historians who mention this event, that don't derive their information from Livy? Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 23:00, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Searching turns up critical readings of Livy which you'd expect to include any relevant external sources if they existed, but they don't list any for that event. Whatever sources Livy had (he wasn't around in 331), it would seem they've gone lost. Worth pointing out as well, that Livy apparently had conflicting sources attributing the death to either a simple plague, or a conspiracy of poisonings. He himself seems inclined to believe the former. --Pykk (talk) 01:15, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

us life expectancy by quartile?

i can easily find u.s. life expectancy in lists with other countries, but the assertion that there are http://www.livescience.com/health/080422-bad-life-spans.html> "2 americas" ("What the new analysis reveals is the reality of two Americas, one on par with most of Europe and parts of Asia, and another no different than a third world nation") leads me to wonder if the quartiles look very different? couldnt find any lists like that, anyone able to do any better? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.224.121.232 (talk) 19:09, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

This study grouped US counties into deciles of roughly equal population by indicators of "socioeconomic deprivation" as outlined in the article. The decile of counties with the greatest socioeconomic deprivation (as shown in this table) had a life expectancy of 71.5 for men and 78 for women. This falls somewhere between the average life expectancies of Nicaragua (69.4 men; 73.8 women) and Mexico (73.3 men; 79 women), according to the CIA World Factbook. It is well below the averages for Cuba (75.2 men; 79.9 women). The least socieoconomically deprived decile of counties (i.e. the most socioeconomically advantaged decile) in the United States showed a life expectancy of 76.9 for men and 81.3 for women. This was significantly lower than the numbers for Japan (78.8 men; 85.6 women), Canada (78.7 men; 83.9 women) even though the per capita GDP of both countries is not only well below that for the most affluent decile of US counties but also below the average for the United States as a whole. The numbers for the most advantaged decile of US counties are comparable to the average for the United Kingdom (76.5 men; 81.6 women). Marco polo (talk) 00:45, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! Very informative! You listed Japan, Canada, and the United Kingdom in relation to where the top decile of the US would place... (with UK and US "comparable"). Does this mean that if the top decile of the US were in fact the US average, the US would be somewhere around 25th on [Wikipedia's list]? Also I take it your paragraph compares the US decile to averages (and never deciles) for the other countries because you couldn't find such an already compiled list? If so I am also interested in a list or study showing multiple countries' life expectencies by decile (or quartile), just as you have found in the study about the US. Whether or not you can find these statistics, thanks again for your work on the above! 84.224.48.226 (talk) 19:35, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

The study that I cited was an academic study specifically focused on deciles of counties in the United States. It is not so likely that similar studies have been done on other countries and still less likely that I would find other such studies online. I'm glad that my earlier work answered your first question but doubt that an attempt to answer this additional question would be fruitful. Marco polo (talk) 00:41, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Dancing about architecture

Have any dances about architecture been performed? NeonMerlin 21:15, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

In Irish set dancing, there's a pattern called "around the house," (shown here under "house around") but it's not really what you're asking about ("around the house, and mind the furniture!"). I found Dance and the architecture of the Hindu temple. Youtube has quite a few clips with titles like dancing to, dancing for, dancing about, and dancing with architecture. --- OtherDave (talk) 22:23, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I've done a modern contra dance of American origin which was written for a particular dance hall which had a pillar in the middle, and you could dance around the pillar without it getting in the way. I wish I could remember what it's called. I can think of a few dances which are written about gardens and garden plans (Spring Garden). Others have architectural names, particularly Red House (from Playford's Dancing Master) comes to mind. Steewi (talk) 00:23, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

In Primary School (UK 7-11-year-olds), one of our playground dancing games involved singing "In and out the dusty windows." Never did figure out what that was really about. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 08:19, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

For anyone who doesn't know, this comes from a famous quote "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture"... AnonMoos (talk) 01:29, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Reminds me of the old Flanders and Swann joke, spoken by Michael Flanders: Someone once said that architecture is frozen music. Donald Swann's music has been described as "defrosted architecture". -- JackofOz (talk) 08:28, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Uganda and Senegal election

page 5 and 6 For Uganda they said Yoweri Museveni's second term expirys in 2006 but he won 2006 election, would been his 3d term. The constitution only allow him to run for two terms. Why is he allow to run for 3 terms. Did Uganda cancel the two-term rule policy? Or this is his last round. For Senegal Abdoulaye Wade's net second term is 2012 but his gross 2012 would been his 3d? He won election in 2000, but the law pass in 2001 does this mean he gets one extra term?--69.229.39.33 (talk) 23:55, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Per Constitution of Uganda, amendments promoted by Museveni supporters in 2005 removed the two term restriction for the Ugandan presidency. I don't understand the question about Senegal. - BanyanTree 06:18, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

What the OP is saying is that the term limit in Senegal was passed during Abdoulaye Wade's first term, so the question is if that first term is exempt from the term limits. From what it says on Politics of Senegal it sounds like that is the case, but I don't have any knowledge of Senegal's constitution. Rckrone (talk) 19:16, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Displaying flag

Hi I live in New Jersey and I was wondering if it's legal to display a flag of another country in front of my house without also displaying the American flag? If this question can not be answered here, can someone tell me where I can find out? 173.3.114.110 (talk) 23:55, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

There's unlikely to be any valid law against displaying another country's flag, as such, because that would be a violation of freedom of expression. But there could be zoning laws that cover the matter. Like maybe you can't just stick a flagpole in your front lawn, due to regulations about signage in general; but you might be able to put a mounting bracket on the side of your house somewhere and put out a flag, just as many do with the U.S. flag. Even if there's no law doesn't mean you'll get off scot-free, though, as it depends on the flag. If it's a flag with some negative social connotations, you might get egged, or worse. But to find out for sure, call your city hall - only don't ask if it's illegal, ask what the rules are for displaying flags. One other thing I thought of is that displaying the flag of a country with whom the USA is at war could be a problem, as it would imply support of an enemy. P.S. What flag are you wanting to display? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 00:01, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

This link seems to have a lot of material about this, at least for federal law. Tempshill (talk) 00:02, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

That's the U.S. flag code. It's primarily about flag "etiquette" - how to display it and use it. It includes how to display it when it's displayed with other flags, for example. It makes no statement that I can see about displaying only another country's flag. Again, the best advice (since wikipedia cannot officially offer legal advice) is to contact your local government and ask them what the rules are, if any, for the display of flags. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 00:07, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Even if it's legal, which I think it must be given constitutional freedom of expression, it may not be the best thing for your relations with your neighbors, but of course that's your business. Marco polo (talk) 00:19, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I know that this is yet another example of cultural differences, but let me just say that I find the thought that the display of another country's flag could, by itself, negatively impact one's relations with one's neighbors kind of bizarre and depressing. Clearly the way people feel about flags in different countries varies a great deal... -- Captain Disdain (talk) 07:03, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

The flag code is just a suggestion. Guidelines not law. And even the flag code doesn't say it's wrong to display another national flag, just that if you show the American flag with it the American flag should not be displayed lower than the other flags. (Excepting the UN flag) Lots of people display foreign flags with no trouble at all. APL (talk) 01:37, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

There is very little in the flag code, other than public burning as a protest, that carries any penalties with it. I would still like the OP to tell us more details. If he's intending to fly the rebel flag in a black neighorhood, for example, that might not be illegal but it wouldn't be too smart. Or flying the Nazi flag in a Jewish neighborhood. Or a Yankees flag in Boston. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 01:50, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I find it fascinating how you seem to be able to work baseball into nearly every response :) DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 13:49, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Here's a 2008 report by the Congressional Research Service on federal law and other issues related to the American flag. The flag code, which is in Titles 4 and 16 of the United States Code, "does not prescribe any penalties...nor does it include enforcement provisions." It's "a guide to be voluntarily followed by civilians and civilian groups."

All the provisions in the code related to flags of other nations have to do with flying them along with the U.S. flag. Likes neighbors of mine, you're entitled to display on its own the flag of the Republic of Ireland, of Italy, or any other nation on its own. No doubt some town somewhere in the U.S. has an ordinance against flying, say, the flag of a Communist country, but I doubt that would stand against an assertion of your free-speech rights. --- OtherDave (talk) 03:42, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

An obvious example could be flying the flag of Ireland on St. Patrick's Day. That would be very unlikely to cause problems. Flying the Nazi flag would. And while it might not be illegal in and of itself, if it triggered civil unrest, whoever hoisted it could probably be charged with "inciting a riot". Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:00, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure that flying a Nazi flag would trigger civil unrest - that would require the community to be full of very violent anti-Nazi people. Almost oxymoronic. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 04:43, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Tell you what: try it and report the results back to us. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 08:16, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

There was a small riot in Calgary this year when Nazis and anti-Nazis clashed. I think more Nazis were injured than anti-Nazis (and one reporter). Adam Bishop (talk) 12:59, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Depends on the community I suppose. There was a recent Australian incident of a person flying the Nazi flag in their yard - when confronted, they claimed they had no idea the flag stood for *anything*, and the incident seemed to have dissipated with some embarassing looks. I get the impression that supporting Nazism would be so ridiculous in an Australian context that nobody was seriously concerned, except perhaps for the level of intelligence of the household in question. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 09:31, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

[2] suggests to me it may have just been a cop-out. Or perhaps more accurately, they may have had some idea of what the Nazi flag represents but didn't perhaps quite appreciate the depth of feeling surrounding it. Of course while somewhat OT many people in East Asian and South Asian countries, particularly followers of various Dharmic religions do use swastikas without realising their connotations to most people in the Western world Nil Einne (talk) 21:57, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Public burning of the flag is still protected by the US 1st Amendment. A Constitutional amendment is introduced yearly that would carve out flag-burning from the 1st Amendment, and the amendment always dies in committee. Tempshill (talk) 04:37, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I think there are various scattered local laws against flag desecration, possibly disguised under "disturbing the peace". But flag-burning as a protest, at least within the USA, happens so seldom that such an amendment would serve no purpose except to encourage it. Ironically, the proper way of disposing of a U.S. flag is by... burning it! Privately, and reverently, as opposed to tossing it in the trash or making a spectacle of it. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:43, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

The 1989 Supreme Court decision on flag-burning is Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397. --- OtherDave (talk) 11:40, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

The original poster appears to have been a drive-by who won't answer the question of what specific flag he wants to fly, so there isn't much else to say about it at this point. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 13:12, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

The point of the answers, though, is that there's no need for such specification. The US makes no prohibition against the display of national flags. Additionally, I would encourage you to strike your description of the original poster. We specifically note that it may take days for an answer to form; disparaging a user for not checking in within hours is uncalled for. — Lomn 13:22, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

If he's intending to display a flag of an enemy nation, it could in fact be illegal. Until we know exactly what he's got in mind, we cannot answer his question with certainty. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 13:30, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

What would define an enemy nation in this case? I dont believe the U.S. is at war with any state at present. Fribbler (talk) 13:34, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Iran and North Korea come to mind - and definitely al-Qaeda, if they actually have a flag. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 13:55, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

They don't have a flag, I believe. Iran and North Korea, while the U.S. doesn't have diplomatic relations with these countries, are not at war with America so surely it wouldn't be illegal to fly their flags? Fribbler (talk) 14:17, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, let's consider a real worst-case scenario. Let's talk about an illegal movement advocating the violent overthrow of the established government which also, incidentally, wants to dispose of basic human rights. Can you fly their flag? You sure can. You can fly it for nearly 40 years atop a state capitol building. You can incorporate its design into a state flag (or two). You can find every tacky manner imaginable of sticking it on your pickup truck. So no, display of a legitimate national or pseudonational flag is not illegal. — Lomn 15:37, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

The rebel flag is a symbol of a self-styled nation that already lost a war to the USA, and obviously its usage is controversial but not illegal as such. The Confederacy is not currently an enemy nation, in fact it's not a nation at all. It would be like flying the flag of Yugoslavia or something. But if al-Qaeda had a flag, someone flying it would certainly find themselves under intense scrutiny, to say the least, as al-Qaeda is unquestionably an enemy of the USA. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 15:56, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

But to be clear though, it would still be legal.

Some anecdotal information: in NYC you sometimes see Puerto Rican, Dominican or other flags flying off fire escapes or on cars and I've never heard of anyone making an issue of it. The reaction you get is going to depend a lot on the culture of where you happen to be. But keep in mind that it is your right. Rckrone (talk) 19:06, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Lomn's example is not the best possible. No one was ever prosecuted for seceding, so the allegation that the "movement" was illegal has no foundation, so far as I can tell – other than that the alternative would be that Lincoln's actions were illegal, and we can't have that. The "movement" did not seek to overthrow the existing order, merely to withdraw from it. —Tamfang (talk) 03:12, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Baseball Bugs, it may be a good idea not to use certain terms too liberally. Especially terms with legal meaning like "enemy nation". The US is not at war with any state and has not done so for a fair while. It is not at war with North Korea, nor with Iran. It is not at war with Al Qaeda either. I use "war" here in its precise sense. Not a figurative sense. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 11:45, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh, have we signed a peace treaty with al-Qaeda? I must have missed that headline. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:39, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

It's impossible to sign a peace treaty with al-Qa'ida (which does, incidentally, have a flag; it's at the top of the article). It's not because they are unwilling to sign peace treaties (although I would find that rather unlikely), but that peace treaties are agreements between states, which al-Qa'ida isn't; it's a rather unusual type of non-governmental organisation. Nyttend (talk) 03:29, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Just to clarify the U.S. Flag Code: When a bill is enacted into law, it is recorded in the United States Statutes at Large, then codified in the United States Code. The appropriate agencies then create the administrative laws that deals with enforcement. These laws are published in the Federal Register, then codified as the Code of Federal Regulations.

The Flag Code sets no penalties and there is no agency or administrative law that enforces the code. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 13:22, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Flying a Mexican flag as a protest against US immigration policy might result in animosity amongst your neighbors. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 23:02, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Baseball Bugs: The USA has no legal definition of an 'enemy nation'; and it isn't currently at war with any nation. On top of that, the only sedition law that could possibly be in force at the moment is the Smith Act, which is at least in part defunct due to Supreme Court decisions, and under which nobody has been convicted since 1961. The SCOTUS decision there (Yates v. United States) was that you have to advocate action against the United States; not merely an idea. Flying a flag isn't really advocating action. There's been opportunity to test that as well; some fringe anti-Vietnam War protesters in the late 60's waved NLF flags and none of them were convicted of sedition (although possibly 'disturbing the peace' or similar). --Pykk (talk) 01:40, 25 August 2009 (UTC)