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Wikipedia:Featured and good topic candidates/Final Fantasy titles/addition2

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Final Fantasy titles (2nd supplementary nomination) edit

This topic is already featured. It is being re-nominated to add additional items. See Wikipedia talk:Featured topics/Final Fantasy titles/archive1 for discussions of the topic's previous nominations. The additional items are:

  1.   Final Fantasy III (Nintendo DS)
  2.   Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings
  3.   Final Fantasy Adventure
  4.   Final Fantasy Chronicles
  5.   Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo Tales
  6.   Final Fantasy Tactics
  7.   Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
Main page Articles
  Final Fantasy   Final Fantasy,   Final Fantasy II,   Final Fantasy III,   Final Fantasy IV,   Final Fantasy V,   Final Fantasy VI,   Final Fantasy VII,   Final Fantasy VIII,   Final Fantasy IX,   Final Fantasy X,   Final Fantasy X-2,   Final Fantasy XI,   Final Fantasy XII,   Final Fantasy Mystic Quest

These are six Final Fantasy Good Articles and one Final Fantasy Featured Article. They should be added to the Featured Topic. FightingStreet (talk) 16:08, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. Mystic Quest is included, so I see no problem in adding these. The Prince (talk) 16:23, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Guy has a good point here. I think it would be appropriate to remove FFX-2 and Mystic Quest from this topic. These articles, along with the nominees, can later be placed in a spin-off FT or a main game FT, like FFVIII. The Prince (talk) 16:26, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support—brings back editing memories. — Deckiller 17:21, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reluctant oppose: While I'm all for expanding the VG topics, especially with articles that are of good quality like these, I think this topic's scope has become a bit clouded. At its core, there should be the 12 titles that make up the main game series. Anything past that is like a supplementary article. I believe that when adding in supplementary articles, there should not be any holes or gaps. There are several other titles that are spin-offs and/or sequels, but are currently not in the topic or addition. With the numerous spin-offs and sequels in the series, I think adding in the above articles is like cherry picking. I also think that having Final Fantasy X-2 and Final Fantasy Mystic Quest is also cherry picking the titles.
    Though this may be a bit extreme in my interpretation, I feel it best to keep things simple for a few reasons.
    1. The topic is currently 14 articles now, and if this trend continues, it'll bloat the topic.
    2. A line needs to be drawn on which titles outside of the main series can be added. If the spin-off games, then why not the spin-off movies/anime? If one sequel, then why not the rest like the Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII, or related games like Vagrant Story?
    3. Because of the above reason, I feel this does not meet Featured topic criteria 1d.
So sorry, though I agree that the articles are of good quality and they should be showcased, I don't think this is the proper way. My two cents. (Guyinblack25 talk 17:26, 4 March 2008 (UTC))[reply]
What about just adding the DS remake and Chronicles, since they are direct remakes? — Deckiller 17:34, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Same thing, I'd like to, but I don't think it's within guidelines. What about the rest of the remakes? Like Final Fantasy Anthology, Final Fantasy Collection, and Final Fantasy I and II (compilations). (Guyinblack25 talk 17:43, 4 March 2008 (UTC))[reply]
According to your reasoning, Final Fantasy X-2 and Final Fantasy Mystic Quest should be removed from this topic? FightingStreet (talk) 18:03, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly, yes. They are of high quality and I respect the work that went into them, but I don't see them fitting into the FT guidelines. I hate to be the one to push this point, but I think it is an important point that needs to be pushed. (Guyinblack25 talk 18:14, 4 March 2008 (UTC))[reply]
Mmh, well, you're right. Moreover, I've just checked the Final Fantasy Mystic Quest article, and it doesn't even seem to be Good Article quality in fact, meaning it shouldn't be in an FT however we look at it. Seems like I opened a can of worms with this nomination... FightingStreet (talk) 19:10, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Nah, it was a can that should have been opened. In the end it'll help tighten up the quality of the topic. Now about Final Fantasy X-2 and Final Fantasy Mystic Quest, I don't know if there is any process to remove specific articles from a topic. Does anybody know if there is anything in place for such a situation? (Guyinblack25 talk 20:07, 5 March 2008 (UTC))[reply]
The best way to do it would be through the supplementary nomination process. The nomination procedure for it should alert the right people and apply the most useful templates. --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 03:28, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think that Final Fantasy X-2, Final Fantasy Tactics, and Final Fantasy Tactics Advance complete the sequels, prequels, and sidestories. But I agree that Final Fantasy Mystic Quest should be not in the topic. Zginder (talk) (Contrib) 18:20, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What about the various titles in the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII? Those are sequels and prequels too. And what about Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles? That is as much a sidestory as Tactics and Mystic Quest. The more I think about it the more I think the defining scope of what can be included is too blurred. I think the best solution is to keep it simple. If they need to be in a topic, the various other titles can be brought up in their own topics like FFVIII. (Guyinblack25 talk 18:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC))[reply]
Very reluctant oppose - If it was going to be expanded, it would have to include Crystal Chronicles in the first place, but it is true that there seems to be little defining the scope of the topic if we add all these side games. The good news is that many of these articles, such as a Final Fantasy IX featured topic, are not that far off, so Guy's suggestion is very doable. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Saying that some side games are more tied to the main series than others is arguably original research unless you can cite some kind of official grouping by the makers. --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 03:30, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Crystal Chronicles article does not even say the story is a sidestory, sequels, or prequels. Zginder (talk) (Contrib) 03:36, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The only official website I've found is www.square-enix.com/na/title/ff/, and it doesn't mention any of the titles as being as side stories, just simply as Final Fantasy games. (Guyinblack25 talk 04:12, 6 March 2008 (UTC))[reply]
  • Comment: Should Final Fantasy Fables:Chocobo Tales be included in this? I've played the game, and while it does carry a lot of Final Fantasy elements, it looks more worth as Chocobo Series title than a Final Fantasy title. In the Square Enix's FF site that Guyinblack linked to, Chocobo Tales isn't listed. I also think Crystal Chronicles should be included, but seeing that it's not even in GA status... oh well. — Blue。 15:11, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Well, Final Fantasy Mystic Quest isn't listed in that site either... FightingStreet (talk) 15:18, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I think that's because it was released in 1992/1993 and they update the page to remove older titles. All of the games listed there are from 2000 onward. The Japanese equivalent page is more up to date and has the newer games on it, but less older games. (Guyinblack25 talk 15:33, 10 March 2008 (UTC))[reply]
  • Comment: Final Fantasy III has lost its Good Article status. As per the criteria, the Featured Topic will be eligible for removal in three months from now (2008-06-10). I guess the topic will be nominated for removal before that date though, considering the arguments raised here about the spinoffs. FightingStreet (talk) 15:58, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reluctant Oppose - With the latest being III, this FT is weakened, with there not being any definitive line on the articles that should be included. — Blue。 17:04, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Close nomination as no consensus to add — Some users have discussed a redefinition of this topic's scope. If there is interest in such a change, it should be discussed on the topic's talk page and another suplimentary nomination made to add or remove articles. --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 23:49, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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