Talk:Monastic garden

Monastic gardens

The term "medieval garden" encompasses Alhambra as much as St Gallen. Historians and horticulturists thus prefer the term "monastic garden" for what is described in this article. Very few medieval monastic gardens survive, and there is little (lest I say none) information about the layout of non-monastic medieval gardens. I'll move the article accordingly. Surtsicna (talk) 08:44, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

A big mistake imo. Taking your points:

"The term "medieval garden" encompasses Alhambra as much as St Gallen." - not if you define the subject at the start it doesn't

"Historians and horticulturists thus prefer the term "monastic garden" for what is described in this article". - I see absolutely no sign of this, though monastic gardens are somewhat better recorded.

"Very few medieval monastic gardens survive" - in fact none, in an authentic state

"there is little (lest I say none) information about the layout of non-monastic medieval gardens" - far from true.

An earlier version rather randomly ended the Middle Ages at 1400; of course this was about the point when artists, especially in northern miniatures, began to actually leave useful depictions of gardens. Johnbod (talk) 20:50, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

I am going to add a sentence about Islamic influence on medieval gardens and medicine LeeLaiben (talk) 16:25, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

I am going to add a sentence about historical evidence pertaining to the ruins of monastic gardens. Cobble2 (talk) 16:28, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm going to reorganize this article so that it flows more smoothly and presents in information in a clearer, more streamlined way. LeeLaiben (talk) 16:17, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Fine, but use good sources. Much of the current article is crap frankly. Johnbod (talk) 17:31, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi Lee, if overhauling, you could do worse than mention those at the Cloisters in nyc; fastidiously maintained and there are pics on commons. Ceoil (talk) 17:40, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

I'll keep that in mind!

Okay, I'm going to start with the actual reorganization now. LeeLaiben (talk) 17:23, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

I am going to change the bulleted list of foodstuffs into a table. Cobble2 (talk) 17:46, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Today I will begin and finish incorporating my sectional edits with the hopes of enhancing the article Cobble2 (talk) 20:57, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Today I will reorganize the article's images LeeLaiben (talk) 16:31, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: History of Medieval and Early Modern Science

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 August 2022 and 9 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): LeeLaiben, Cobble2 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Kjhrdt, AreHc.

— Assignment last updated by K8shep (talk) 16:13, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Mediaeval gardens

Monastic gardens had a well-defined tradition of horticulture within the precinct of abbeys and priories. Most of the information on plants known at various dates comes from monastic sources, and has been addressed by Alicia Amherst, John Harvey and others. Non-monastic gardens of the peasantry, the nobility and the royalty formed very different traditions, also partially addressed by Frank Crisp and John Harvey. I suggest there should be a Wikipedia page on medieval gardens covering what we know up till about 1530 (in the UK, slightly earlier in Italy and France), and another page on the 'early Modern' (preferred these days to 'Renaissance') from about 1530 till 1630 (in the UK, and rather earlier in Italy and France). 2.139.197.58 (talk) 21:48, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

We should certainly have a medieval page - we used to have a poor one until it was unwisely merged here some years ago (see above). Early modern gardens are covered (not very well) by various national pages, which is probably the right approach. Here we still prefer Renaissance - your end-date for Early Modern is not the general one. We have very few editors here interested in garden history, and new additions are very welcome, especially those who keep up with the scholarship. Johnbod (talk) 00:27, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

I could draft one up if you wished - and suggestions for changes to Monastic Gardens. 2.139.197.58 (talk) 21:42, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Yes please. If you start an a/c (very easy) you can have "sandbox" pages for drafts. I'm now away for 2 weeks, but will look out on my return. Johnbod (talk) 21:47, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

I have written a draft article on Medieval Gardens, and put it into my sandbox, though I am not yet familiar with the Wikipedia way of writing, so it will have to be re-done. 1948dlj (talk) 11:46, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks! I'll start working on it there, if that's ok, but probably won't get far until after my return next week (i'm currently close to Villa d'Este rather than Chiswick). 00:16, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

• As I've said at the draft, there is a long list of references at the end, but no indication as to which references which bit. I've done links etc, & will now move the draft to Medieval garden anyway. But it needs inline refs. Johnbod (talk) 12:49, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
  • Oh, well that was reverted, rather incorrectly to my mind. It now sits at Draft:Medieval garden and needs the references given inline placing. Johnbod (talk) 14:27, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

    I can probably return to Medieval Gardens in the next few weeks - I haven't evaporated! 1948dlj (talk) 12:46, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

    • Now up at Medieval garden, about to be on WP:DYK, & looking very decent imo. Johnbod (talk) 14:08, 21 June 2024 (UTC)