Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting/Poll 2009-02-02

Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting have been discussing the possible renaming of all articles and categories under Category:Scouting by country several times. Recent discussions:

• Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting/Archive 2008#"Scouting and Guiding in ..." instead of "Scouting in ..."
• Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting/Archive 2008#Change from "Scouting in ..." to "Scouting and Guiding in ..."

Worldwide, there are two distinct terms for female members of the Scouting Movement:

• Coeducational member organizations of the World Organization of the Scout Movement usually use Scout without respect to the gender of their members.
• Member organizations of the World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts use (Girl) Guide or (Girl) Scout following their traditions; this is also reflected by the name of the supranational body.

In some of the countries using Guiding, there is a strict distinction between Scouting and Guiding, mainly in the Commonwealth. While the common base of Scouting and Guiding is widely accepted, both are seen as distinct movements. In these countries, common usage of Scouting does not include Guiding.

Currently, the article titles within the category do not reflect the different terms for female members of the Scouting movement. Within the project, there has also been the feeling that the current situation may discourage the possible collaboration of editors from organizations using Guide.

A general problem with naming these articles are the necessary translations. For example, most Scandinavian organizations do not differ between male and female members in their native languages, but when using English they speak of Scouts and Guides (eg Svenska Scoutrådet translates to The Swedish Guide and Scout Council). Similar problems arise with German and French speaking organizations.

This poll shall support the future handling of article naming within this category.

Duration

This poll runs for 3 weeks. Voting is open from 3 February 2009, 03:12, UTC to 24 February 2009, 03:12

Options

Option 1

• All articles remain at Scouting in (country).
• Redirects from Scouting and Guiding in (country) and Guiding in (country) are added.
• The category remains at Category:Scouting in (country).
• The parent category remains at Category:Scouting by country.

Pros:

• Status quo. No major changes are necessary.
• Avoids problems with translations.

Cons:

• Perceived US-centric proposal with the Girl Scouts of the USA covering about 95% of the Girl Scouts worldwide.
• Does not address dichotomy in English-language usage.
• May discourage editors from Guiding organizations.

Option 2

• All articles are moved to Scouting and Guiding in (country).
• Redirects from Scouting in (country) and Guiding in (country) are kept/added.
• The category is moved to Category:Scouting and Guiding in (country).
• The parent category is moved to Category:Scouting and Guiding by country.

Pros:

• About 95 percent of the organizations within WAGGGS use Guiding for their activities.
• May encourage new editors from Guiding organizations.

Cons:

• Does not reflect the usage in the US and some other countries.
• Perceived Euro-centric and Commonwealth viewpoint.
• May discourage editors with a GSUSA-background (or similar).

Option 3

• The naming of the articles is decided on a case-by-case basis.
• The necessary redirects are added.
• The category is moved in line with the name of the article.
• The parent category is moved to Category:Scouting and Guiding by country (inclusive of both, no need for a separate category).

The determining factor is the usage by the national Scouting and Guiding organizations, and the common meaning of the terms Scouting and Guiding in the country.

Examples:

• Scouting in the United States is not moved since there is no usage of Guiding referring to girls in Scouting in the US.
• Scouting in the United Kingdom is moved to Scouting and Guiding in the United Kingdom since Guiding and Scouting are distinct terms for distinct organizations, and people do not consider the term Scouting to include Guides (and vice versa).

Pros:

• Reflects best the worldwide situation, no national/continental bias.
• May encourage new editors from Guiding organizations.
• Allows to name the article and category in a way that reflects the usage within the country.

Cons:

• Discussions are necessary in some cases.
• The category will become incongruent, with a mixed usage of Scouting in (country) and Scouting and Guiding in (country). This could lead to unnecessary moves contrary to the outcome of this poll, eg Scouting in the United States could be moved to Scouting and Guiding in the United States by users wishing a congruent category.

Notes

Usage in expatriate organizations (eg Hungarian Scouts/Guides in the US etc) is not surveyed. For a preliminary survey on the usage see User:Jergen/Scouting in X to Scouting and Guiding in X.

Votes

Option 2

1. support, this is the one that will make the least people unhappy. Clear rule, no OR needed, no need to discus translation/interpretation (mistakes), less sensitive to errors. --Egel _Reaction? 09:54, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Option 3

1. support option 3, "by tradition" method. There is no easy solution to this, no solution will please everyone, but this is the one that will make the most users happy. — Rlevse • Talk • 02:20, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
2. support as the most flexible, real world option. Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 04:05, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
3. support for the reasons given above. This will be useful in countries where the terms Guide and Scout are used for distinct organisations. --Bduke (Discussion) 06:15, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
4. support --jergen (talk) 07:52, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
5. support real world usage. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 09:47, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
6. support-Phips (talk) 15:21, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
7. support - a welcome change Kingbird (talk) 20:59, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
8. support - real world usage --Erp (talk) 23:18, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Comments

Please use User talk:Jergen/workshop/Poll.