Talk:Russian invasion of Ukraine
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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 May 2024 edit
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Please add [[File:Avdiivka_Coke_Plant_after_Russian_shelling,_2023-10-19_(02).jpg|thumb|View of the [[Avdiivka]] Coke Plant after Russian shelling]] under the Battle of Avdiivka, Russian naval and aviation losses (1 December 2023 – present) section --Hoben7599 (talk) 02:39, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
Should France be added as a belligerent or as at least supporting Ukraine ? edit
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-commander-french-military-instructors-visit-ukrainian-training-centres-2024-05-27/ Clearly sending french soldiers into Ukraine to train Ukrainian units would make them active participants and targets for the russian military. https:theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/mar/04/british-soldiers-on-ground-ukraine-german-military-leak It is also surprising that the British haven't been already added to the belligerents section given the leaked German military phone call that detailed British troops are on the ground helping with missile targeting. 94.142.59.241 (talk) 20:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- maybe not active participants as they aren't actively fighting Russian forces, but some way to recognize them as "pro Ukraine" would work Icantthinkofaname1 (talk) 16:18, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
See FAQ. Slatersteven (talk) 16:19, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
Map which shows territories controlled and regained from Russia in Ukraine is somewhat misleading edit
The first map at the top uses a very similar colo(u)r for bodies of water and territories that Russia no longer occupies. This makes the area around the Dnipro river confusing, as a reader could very well believe that it is territory formerly occupied by Russian forces due to the similar colors. A change in colors for this map (such as changing the color of territories regained by Ukraine to a color other than blue) could be helpful. Thanks Icantthinkofaname1 (talk) 00:29, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Light green or a deeper yellow could both work. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 06:03, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Yellow is already the color Ukrainian held territory is being used for, and any other shade could still be mistaken. Green would give the idea of "Ukraine good Russia bad" by implying Ukraine retaking territory is a good thing(while it might be a good thing for you or others, it goes against the idea that wikipedia should be a neutral source) Purple could work though, it is different from the rest of the map and is more neutral Icantthinkofaname1 (talk) 22:31, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- Also, I have realized that most maps in this article use the same format as the top one. Making changes would require a lot of time, as it is preferable to have the maps coincide with eachother colorwise, so keep that in consideration Icantthinkofaname1 (talk) 16:20, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- This discussion should be had at c:File talk:2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine.svg. Melmann 11:30, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
I think there needs to be a broader question on whether it should be included in the map at all. The other way around (territory recaptured by Russia) isn't indicated in any way, making the map unbalanced in terms of what it's trying to portray. Right now, for example, there is no indication that those two areas captured by Russia in the 2024 Kharkiv offensive were previously indicated as "light blue" on the map. So in effect, the map is presenting a biased view where Ukrainian territorial regains are represented, but Russian territorial regains are not. I think this should be addressed.--JasonMacker (talk) 23:26, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- maybe it would be better to get a gif which shows the evolution of front lines throughout the war every month or so, and remove the idea of "formerly occupied by ___" all together, which would make the map more straight forward and unbiased Icantthinkofaname1 (talk) 16:16, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Speaking of the map, has anyone ever explained how it is not in violation of WP:NOTNEWS? TylerBurden (talk) 16:29, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- How is that remotely a relevant policy here? Mr rnddude (talk) 17:19, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Most of the blue-shaded areas are derived directly from whichever areas were colored in red during the early period of the war (February-March 2022), and are thus prone to the errors inherent in breaking news reports. As a result, the boundaries of this blue area are highly suspect.
- As an example, I recently found that the cities of Bohodukhiv and Derhachi were denoted as having been previously Russian-occupied, based on a vaguely worded report that an editor had seemingly misinterpreted on 26 February 2022. I demonstrated on the talk page that based on more recent retrospective sources, those cities had never been occupied in the first place. The map's primary editor indulged my request and shifted the blue area so that it fell just outside of the aforementioned cities, despite, in the case of Bohodukhiv, there being no evidence that Russian forces were ever anywhere near this city. On these grounds I can say that at the very least, some parts of the blue-shaded regions on the map are a total mess of synthesis and original research. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 00:57, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Mr rnddude Your response to this? Are Wikipedia editors frontline journalists now? TylerBurden (talk) 11:27, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- It was a fair question. If there is any issue here, I would think it is WP:OR/WP:SYNTH. I don't see how WP:NOTNEWS reasonably applies either? Cinderella157 (talk) 12:14, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- The smugness is misplaced. NOTNEWS deals primarily with topic encyclopedicity (a freshly minted word). There is no question that the subject is encyclopedic. Moreover, NOTNEWS explicitly and repeatedly encourages editors to keep articles current. The opening clause of the policy is
[e]ditors are encouraged to include current and up-to-date information within its coverage ...
. I still don't see what application NOTNEWS is supposed to have here. Regarding OR/SYNTH, the current front is IIRC typically sourced from the ISW. The blue shade of 'former occupation' probably relies on the reliability of former versions of the map. Any error once introduced will be retained until noticed (as in the case raised by SaintPaulofTarsus). The map is hosted on commons.wiki which has different policies to en.wiki. Handling such issues is consequently complicated. Either we can 1a. notify commons.wiki editors of errors once identified as at present; 1b. request the blue shading to be removed to eliminate risk of OR/SYNTH; or 2. migrate a copy of the map to en.wiki (put it under our jurisdiction so to speak) and use that instead. Mr rnddude (talk) 14:10, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Mr rnddude Your response to this? Are Wikipedia editors frontline journalists now? TylerBurden (talk) 11:27, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- How is that remotely a relevant policy here? Mr rnddude (talk) 17:19, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Speaking of the map, has anyone ever explained how it is not in violation of WP:NOTNEWS? TylerBurden (talk) 16:29, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
Spelling inconsistency I noticed edit
In the Prisoners of War section of the article, it says "Zelensky compared Russian soldiers to "beasts" after the footage was circulated." In the rest of the article, his name is spelled "Zelenskyy". It should be spelled like that here too. MORTALITY ANOMALY (talk) 22:09, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Done --JasonMacker (talk) 22:24, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
Original Research Image in Use edit
There are concerns from editors regarding File:2022 Kherson-Mykolaiv Offensive.png, created by @Rr016:, that the image contains original research. Can editors, or Rr016 verify the source(s) for this map? This map is in use on some child-articles currently and has been removed by others under OR grounds from Battle of Kherson, in prep for a GAN. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 23:02, 2 June 2024 (UTC)