Talk:Triple Crown (professional wrestling)/Archive 2

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I'm getting tired of this being an issue for people...

Okay, seriously, WWE considers winning the US Title as counting toward someone becoming a Triple Crown Champion. It is NOT just JBL proclaiming himself as a Triple Crown Champion; there have been other various mentions of it on TV. They have called Big Show a Triple Crown Champion, and he held the US Championship, NOT the IC championship. I can see a point of ECW World Title, due to it still being new and PWI not regarding it as a World Title yet, but the US Title? C'mon people, WWE treats it as the equivalent of the IC title, just like they treat the WWE Tag Team Championship and World Heavyweight Championship as equivalents of the World Tag Team Championships and WWE Championships, respectively. Doesn't that mean it's also treated as the equivalent for the Triple Crown? It would seem so, especially when JBL AND Big Show have both been called Triple Crown Champions. As for the vote "not changing no original research policy"...WHAT THE HECK DOES NO ORIGINAL RESEARCH HAVE TO DO WITH A POLICY?? That makes no sense AT ALL! We're not doing original research; we're simply adding information to the table that belongs there, and as I've shown, it's not just our opinion. It's WWE's official stance as well. I'm seriously tempted to put the info back in the table, but I'm willing to be a nice guy and let this get resolved peacefully.Anakinjmt 23:27, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I am looking for someone at the WWE to contact to resolve over this dispute, I think contacting Jim Ross via his website at Jrsbbq.com would be a good idea because I would Address this dispute to him in the comments section of his blog since I am not sure who else to contact about the issue since I doubt I would get a response from anyone at the WWE regarding the issue. I am not sure who else would be good to email at the WWE about this since I know I would not get an answer from Vince McMahon himself. Zdunne 24:15, 11 December 2006 (UTC).

Sounds like a good call. Hearing from WWE themselves should fix this problem. I'd also try to perhaps contact Michael Cole about getting like an official Triple Crown/Grand Slam Champion list on WWE.com, perhaps somewhere around the Inside WWE section, as that's where the title history of WWE championships is found. Seems like a good place to me. Anakinjmt 06:15, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree that emailing JR is a good course of action. I'm not sure why the f*** this is an issue, as the US Title is equal in standing to the IC Title, but whatever. -- THLR 22:24, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, the problem is that since WWE has never EXPLICITELY said that the US title counts towards Triple Crown. However, it is well known that the US title is the Smackdown equivalent to the IC title. PWI has said it, and I think it was said on TV that the US title was the equivalent of the IC title, but since that's not online...we can't use it. I'm willing to see the ECW title, as that's still new and PWI hasn't given it world status yet...but they have said the US title is equal to the IC title. Hopefully, we can get this taken care of once and for all. Anakinjmt 22:55, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion, we should ignore WP:OR because it is preventing us from providing accurate information. We know for fact that the US Title is equal in standing to the IC Title, and we shouldn't be crippled because it isn't on the internet. I propose that we ignore WP:OR so that we can provide accurate and comprehensive information to this article. I'll wait to here other people’s thoughts before adding the US Title to the chart. Cheers, -- THL 00:49, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Having said what I said, we can abide by WP:NOR and say that "many consider the US Title the equivalent to the IC title, and as such many consider the US title an acceptable substitute." with a citation from a source like PWI in order to skirt around the issue. This may work as a passable compromise position that supports WP:NPOV. Hardliners on this issue will still oppose it, but the large majority seem to be placated by this simple change. kelvSYC 03:24, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

(My following statement will make me sound pissed off. Please note that I am perfectly calm and not angry while typing this.) That still keeps it off of the chart, which, in my opinion, is the main issue. I don't see what the problem is. Why should anyone give a f*** if the WWE hasn't explicitly said that it is interchangeable. If everything else is interchangeable, why wouldn't the US Title be? I don't care if that is OR; I reject the views of the hardliners in favor of common sense. WP:OR is preventing us from providing a detailed and accurate list of Triple Crown Champions, and that gives us the right to ignore it. The WWE has explicitly stated on several occasions that the US and IC Titles are equal, and I don't see why this article should pay the price for PWI's silence. The Triple Crown Champions that have earned that status through the US Title belong on the chart, and anything less hurts this article, and this encyclopedia. -- THL 04:57, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

It's in the chart, and I'm a happy boy. -- THL 22:24, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

As am I. While the issue is resolved for now, this will most certainly pop up once PWI or WWE says the ECW World Title is equivalent to the WWE/World Heavyweight Championship. Not a big deal right now, as no one has become WWE Triple Crown Champion by winning the ECW title, but it's bound to happen eventually. Anakinjmt 23:30, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

RVD

What happens when someone eg. RVD has won every title in the WWE and ECW?

Closest thing would be Grand Slam Champion, although that only requires you to be a Triple Crown Champion plus a former European Champion, a title that is now defunct. To my knowledge, no one has won every single title there is, although Chris Benoit comes the closest, as he's won European, Intercontinental, World Tag Team, WWE Tag Team, United States, and World Heavyweight Championship. I don't know if he ever held the Hardcore Championship, I doubt he ever held the Light Heavyweight Championship, and I believe he's too heavy for the Cruiserweight Championship, although that didn't stop Matt Hardy from losing the weight to win it. And, of course, Chris can't win the Women's Championship, but that really doesn't count. Also, please sign your comments. Anakinjmt 05:52, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I used to have any entry in here entitled "Deluxe Triple Crown"--that is winning all 6 of WWE's major championships.

That is the WWE, World, I-C, U.S. (WWE version), World Tag, and WWE Tag Championships.

It of course got thrown out by the "No OR police".

In RVD's case he should be listed as a WWE Grand Slam winner and an ECW Triple Crown winner.

That too has drawn the ire of the OR police.

Benoit was never European Champion.

Jeff Hardy technically has the best chance of making a clean sweep (of a total of 10 titles):

He has held the defunct European, Hardcore, and Light Heavyweight Championships. (3)

As far as active titles, he has held the World Tag Team Titles and is the I-C Champ. (2)

Jeff needs the WWE, World, U.S., WWE Tag, and Cruiserweight belts. (5)

So Jeff is halfway home with 5/10 belts, having already won all of the defunct belts, and having a shot (a better shot at some titles than others) at the active belts he needs.

Counting only active titles, Chris Benoit only needs the WWE Title to win the unofficial "Deluxe Triple Crown".

Kurt Angle and Edge held the U.S. Title when it was still considered WCW property during the Invasion.

If you want to include those, than Kurt needs a World Tag Team Title, and Edge needs a World Championship to win the "DTC"

Vlh 12:27 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Or we could not mention it until someone has actually won all of the titles. -- THL 18:52, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Tell you what, for the sake of keeping this simple, let's only build up to somebody winning all 6 of the major titles. (WWE, World, I-C, U.S., World Tag, and WWE Tag), any thing else is window dressing.

Vlh 18:11 18 December 2006 (UTC).

A few things

• As far as the WCW Triple Crown goes, I made it clear in the article that WCW didn't use the term Triple Crown.
• However, the chart of "mythical" WCW TC winners needs to stay on the list just for comparisons sake with the WWE.
• With the ECW Triple Crown, don't bother listing potential winners until the TV Title and the Tag Team Titles get reactivated, because if the titles don't currently exist, they can't be won.

Vlh 15:07 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, should we even still keep track of the ECW Triple Crown? Considering that was for the promotion ECW, and not the brand ECW, should we really still updating it? I guess I could see it for Rob Van Dam, but he would really be the only one. I'm just wondering here. Anakinjmt 20:48, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• By all means keep the list in the article, all I suggested was that we shouldn't list potential champions because there are no other titles to win at present.
• Think of it like the WCW Triple Crown listng, acknowledge those who made it, but it would just clutter up the article to list those who are one away, when the titles don't exist anymore.
• Same idea with the ECW TC. Give credit to those who got there, but until the titles come back, there can be no other TC winners.
• By the way, Anakinjmt, Thanks for backing me up in the U.S. Title debate.

Vlh 21:08 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Hey, no problem. I've been thinking for a while it should be included, and only recently decided to do and say something about it. Still the ECW title, but that hopefully will go over easier. Anakinjmt 01:46, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Listing a WCW Triple Crown is original research, that's why it was removed the first time and why it will be removed again. TJ Spyke 02:16, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Merge TNA Triple Crown Champion with this article?

Do we really need a separate TNA Triple Crown article? Considering that WWE Triple Crown is perhaps more prestigious, and has been around longer and yet it doesn't have its own article, should we really allow the TNA TC to have its own article, especially when in this article, it doesn't even provide a link to the TNA TC article? I move we merge the TNA Triple Crown article with this one, or, delete the TNA TC article. Anakinjmt 03:42, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree that they should be merged. -- THL 11:33, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I've added the Merge Proposed templates to both pages, so hopefully, everyone will be able to agree on this shortly. Anakinjmt 15:20, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Vote "Support" or "Object" with reason as to why. Don't just say "Support" or "Object". Also, please sign your vote.

• Support We don't need a Triple Crown Champion article with a TNA section and a TNA Triple Crown article. That just makes things cluttered and gets people confused, especially when A: there's no link in the TNA section to the TNA article, and B: the TNA section is more up-to-date than the TNA article itself. Anakinjmt 15:24, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
• Object. This page includes fictional achievements, namely the supposed ECW, WCW and OVW Triple Crowns. Listing the TNA and WWE Triple Crowns alongside these non-existent accolades is an inappropriate mix of fact and fiction. Moreover, the TNA Triple Crown section on this page contains several errors - numerous potential Triple Crown winners are omitted, and the unsourced assertion that the Triple Crown can be won in different calendar years is made. Unless the three fake Triple Crowns are removed and the section is fixed, the articles cannot be merged. 84.13.140.190 02:03, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Just because WCW, ECW, and OVW never had any title such as Triple Crown does not mean they shouldn't belong here. They are here because there have been wrestlers in all of these promotions that have accomplished similar things, and they deserve to be recognized here. And, just because you don't agree with them does not mean you can take them out. Two votes, one for and against, does not equal the right to take out the tag. Anakinjmt 02:52, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

• Support. If this page has errors with the TNA Triple Crown and the other one doesn't, then merging them will fix the problem. 84.13.140.190, I think you have some misconceptions about merging articles. Anything can be merged. I could merge Pikachu with Glen Jacobs, but there would be nothing to gain from that. Also, just because something hasn't been announced doesn't mean it is fake. Saying that someone is a (Promotion) Triple Crown Champion is just a fancy way of saying that the won a title for the tree divisions on the card in that promotion. -- THL 04:29, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Considering there's only 3 votes, with 2 Support and 1 Object, let's just go ahead and merge them. Can someone that watches TNA make the appropriate corrections to the TNA section here? I only watch WWE, so I have no idea who's close. Anakinjmt 21:55, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I'll just go ahead and merge the articles. Over time the correct information will be added to the article. Cheers, -- The Hybrid wishes you a Merry Christmas 00:46, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

The other article had nothing that this article didn't except for this list of potential champions (after this message). Since this list contains people that aren't affiliated with TNA, and the people that are have already been listed in the article, I decided to ask before adding it. Cheers, -- The Hybrid wishes you a Merry Christmas 00:55, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

• NWA World Heavyweight Championship
  • Amazing Red
  • Christopher Daniels
  • Kid Kash
  • Senshi
  • Jerry Lynn
• TNA X Division Championship
  • Abyss
  • Jack Brisco
  • Shane Douglas
  • Ric Flair
  • Ron Killings
  • Dusty Rhodes
  • Ricky Steamboat
  • Barry Windham

Keep it current

When listing potential TNA TC winners, please keep it to those who are currently in TNA.

Guys like Jack Briscoe and Barry Windham are retired, so there is no chance of them winning it.

We need to set the limit for potential champions for those who are currently in the promotion, be it either WWE or TNA.

It just keeps things less cluttered.

Vlh 27 December 2006 21:53 (UTC)

United States Championship

If I see the reinsertion of the mention of the United States Championship into this artile again, by anyone, they are going to be warned for inserting WP:OR into Wikipedia unless of course you have a reliable source thats verifiable. semper fi — Moe 04:47, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, here we go again with this. *sigh*. Again, I'll just state how the US Title is considered by WWE and PWI to be equal with the IC title, but to make you happy, I'll find some proof. ECW title has already been decided that it doesn't count yet, so for now, that issue is resolved. Anakinjmt 05:50, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Also wanted to ask what proof we have that the World Heavyweight Championship and the WWE Tag Titles count towards Triple Crown. Sicne apparently we need proof concerning the US title, where's the proof for the World Heavyweight and WWE Tag? Anakinjmt 06:10, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

It was stated on wwe.com that the WHC and WWE Tag Titles were critera. Something (a biography or something) stated Kurt Angle as a Grand Slam Champion, which means that the WWE Tag Titles are included. The WHC was included after Shawn Michales' biography was updated with mentioned the WHC as a list of acomplishments under his Grand Slam Championship status. Since you have to be a Triple Crown Champion to be a Grand Slam Champion, they have the same requirements. The mentions of the "proof" for the WWE Tag and WHC were originally in the Grand Slam Championship article I believe, but they were never added to this article. semper fi — Moe 13:54, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Didn't you quit? -- THL 08:53, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but stumbling across Wikipedia, I decided to see how this area of Wikipedia was after I left. semper fi — Moe 13:54, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Also, since you insist on removing the TC info from the wrestlers you feel don't meet the criteria, I hope that you'll be honorable enough to add the links back to their articles after you are given proof. -- THL 09:00, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Of course, I would be happy to readd the links if proof was provided, but no such proof exist. semper fi — Moe 13:54, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

See my talk page (click my green L). User:Big Boss 0 contacted the WWE, and received a response. The US Title and the ECW World Title both count towards the TC, and they also consider the current US Title to be the continuation of the WCW US Title, so any WCW reigns as the US champion count towards the WWE Triple Crown. I'm going to ask him to copy the E-mail onto this page. Cheers, -- THL 23:44, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I see that you have already contacted him; however, it still seems to be a good idea to have the E-mail on this page. Cheers, -- THL 23:46, 28 December 2006 (UTC)