Talk:2013–2015 PKK–Turkey peace process

Removal of content

There is a constant removal of content of naming it "Turkish-Kurd peace process" (original name of this article). Any reason, except possible violation of WP:POV ?Greyshark09 (talk) 19:21, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Discussion on the need of sanctions on Kurdish–Turkish conflict topic

I would like to invite editors on discussion over the need to set Kurdish–Turkish conflict general sanctions due to increased edit-warring on pages concerning Kurdish–Turkish conflict (1978–present).GreyShark (dibra) 07:18, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Capitalization

I think it should be "Solution Process". Solution process sounds like a chemical process. Yug (talk) 09:00, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

I think it would make more sense to move it to Kurdish–Turkish peace process. Charles Essie (talk) 03:51, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

I also agree with Charles Essie. It could be included in the Article that by some people this process is called a solution process.Lean Anael (talk) 13:49, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. I'm going to start an official discussion for a move. Charles Essie (talk) 17:09, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 13 September 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved  — Amakuru (talk) 21:03, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

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Solution process → Kurdish–Turkish peace process – Per above discussion. Charles Essie (talk) 17:12, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

I support the move. Lean Anael (talk) 07:15, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Name

I'd like to move the page to Kurdish-Turkish peace process (2012-2015) as it covers this time. There where more Kurdish-Turkish peace processes than just this one.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 22:20, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

We could also expand this article to include the whole history of the peace process. Charles Essie (talk) 22:24, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Ok, fair proposition Charles Essie. We could try with that first.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 22:29, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Name 2.0

I, the creator of this article, created this article with the intend of describing the so called Solution process (Çözüm süreci). Which was a peace process between AKP Government of Turkey and the PKK. Not other Kurdish groups. Just PKK. So it's definitely not a general Kurdish–Turkish peace process. Having peace with PKK doesn't mean having peace with other Kurdish (armed) groups, so we must present distinction and prevent confusion. Also "Solution process" per WP:COMMONNAME. It is descriped as such in various media (although non-official variations do exist) -Randam (talk) 22:09, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Okay, that makes sense. It still think there should be a more comprehensive article titled Kurdish–Turkish peace process modeled on the article for the Israeli–Palestinian peace process, though. Charles Essie (talk) 22:56, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

I ask the involved parties in the discussion to google Solution Process. I don't get a single hit to the referred theme in the article. Not even from a Turkish newspaper. What is Wikipedia:COMMONNAME? Also check the Search engine test. I renew my proposition to name the article Kurdish/Turkish peace process (2012-2015).Paradise Chronicle (talk) 00:34, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Am I right in understanding that this article has been moved back to its original title, without discussion, in the teeth of the result of a previous move discussion? Konli17 (talk) 00:45, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

@to all. I really don't want to go in comparative whataboutism arguments like the Israeli–Palestinian peace process. Those differ substantially and have their own unique dynamics. Most notable, Israel and Palestina are both countries, recognized by a large amount of other countries.

Here are some examples of the use of the name solution process 1 2, 3 4, 5, 6. Even now, when people think about the solution process, they think about Turkey and PKK. Not other Kurdish (armed) groups. I acknowledge that there are some sources that wrongly call this "Kurdish-Turkish peace process". They fail to understand 2 points: Firstly, a Turkey-PKK peace deal does not end "Kurdish-Turkish conflict" as other Kurdish (armed) groups are not involved. Secondly, some journalists, call it "Kurdish-Turkish" in order to simplify the matter, but by simplifying this much they divert from the truth. We at Wikipedia do not have to choose such ambigiuos name over a neutral alternative: solution process. Wikipedia's goal is not to choose the least confusing name, or to choose the most descriptive name to prevent every confusion out there. But to meet you halfway, if you don't like the aformentioned, we could think something like 1999–2002 FARC–Government peace process. "2013–2015 PKK–Turkish Government peace process" or the "2013–2015 PKK–Turkey peace process". -Randam (talk) 13:49, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

As you have probably noticed, I've moved the page for now. I don't agree with Randam on the title, but it is better for now as Solution process is just not descriptive of a peace process. The PKK was also not involved that much in the talks. It was between the HDP representing the Turkish state and Öcalan. Also as the peace process ended, it was not only the PKK that suffered casualties but the HDP and the Kurdish language, Kurdish journalists etc. Further arguments to the discussions are welcome.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

My comment on your remarks about PKK involvement:

Öcalan is PKK. He is the founding member of PKK, the most notable member by a crushing margin and is regarded as de facto leader of PKK. This was the context. Suggesting that Öcalan is just an independent person, that doesn't have the highest and sole authority over PKK is playing word games. You can't have peace or a cease-fire with an inmate. You have a cease-fire between armed organizations, through actors in power of that armed organizations. I would have agreed with you if this was the case: Turkish state talks with Öcalan, but there is no significant change in what PKK does, i.e. PKK continues its weekly attacks, PKK members do not withdraw from Turkey or if Turkey didn't regarded Öcalan as the authority over PKK. -Randam (talk) 20:44, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Not just PKK

The Turkish government was also involved in negotiations with the PYD during this period. I reckon this is another reason the article title should be less exclusive. Konli17 (talk) 09:27, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Source? Shadow4dark (talk) 09:30, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

[1] Konli17 (talk) 10:02, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Konli is right wikipedia is not place for a forum, and good source.Shadow4dark (talk) 10:08, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

It is fact, that all Kurdish organizations, parties, institutions suffered after the breakdown of the peace process. Not only the PKK. The PKK is the one which is the less affected. Kurdish statues and cultural institutions were demolished, politicians imprisoned, etc. Today Kurds live similarly like in the 1990s during OHAL. With curfews and other restrictions. In part even with less rights, as (Kurdish) mayors now can be removed, this was not possible during OHAL.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 11:08, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Glad you're happy with the source S4D, but this isn't a forum for your attacks on the Turkish state. Konli17 (talk) 11:41, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

So if there's no objections, I'll move it to Kurdish-Turkish peace process to acknowledge the PYD angle. Konli17 (talk) 17:07, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Merge

I don't see why we need a separate article for the Kurdish-Turkish peace initiatives 1991-2004. Neither article is very big and most other peace process articles aren't divided like this (at least not without some sort of umbrella article). I suggest we merge these two pages into a single article titled Kurdish–Turkish peace process. Charles Essie (talk) 17:38, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose, I'd prefer if someone would expand on each peace process and create an article for each of them. I'll try to do so in the next days and see where this leads to.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 17:46, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Closing, given the objection and absence of support (with stale discussion). Klbrain (talk) 14:24, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose, fully different context. Yug (talk) 🐲 20:47, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Readings

• https://www.jstor.org/stable/43134390
• https://newlinesmag.com/argument/a-last-gasp-for-the-peace-process-in-turkey/
• https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2023/06/did-kurdish-pkk-call-truce-turkey-make-peace-or-war

Yug (talk) 🐲