This article is written in Scottish English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, travelled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.
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Latest comment: 13 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion
This page was previously deleted because the material used violated copyright. As this is such an important period in Scottish history I have re-created it with a cleaned up text from the main History of Scotland article. I then posted the same text there, as it was better than what had previously been used. The notional plan is to expand this article and keep that text as a summary of this. So if anyone can help expand this with reliable sources, or sees where expansion might be achieved, please contribute.--SabreBD (talk) 23:03, 1 October 2010 (UTC)Reply
Hi. Thanks for taking this on. I am the major contributor and guilty party, so it will probably be me responding to any changes. I should point out that I am the sort of editor who is very happy to get advice and criticism beyond the requirements of a GA, should time permit.--SabreBD (talk)14:48, 18 December 2011 (UTC)Reply
GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
Is it "Scotland in the Late Middle Ages" (title) or "Scotland in the late Middle Ages" (first sentence)?
Done You have spotted my hesitation. On Wikipedia the Late (Early or High) is usually capitalised and I followed that when I created the article, but in most reliable sources only the Middle Ages is usually capitalised. I don't much fancy trying to get this changed on countless articles, so I guess we will go with the Wikipedia convention.--SabreBD (talk)23:34, 18 December 2011 (UTC)Reply
Early in the article (probably in the first sentence) you should establish the time frame covered by this article, for people not familiar with the delineations of early historians. So, "Scotland in the late Middle Ages (1286-1513)..." or whatever you determine the time frame to be.
John I, "but probably resigned as Guardian of Scotland." We don't know for sure? What happened to de Moray while Wallace was ruling?
No we don't know for sure if that happened. Our knowledge of events in Scotland in this period is roughly the same as England about 300 years before. I will check on de Moray.--SabreBD (talk)23:34, 18 December 2011 (UTC)Reply
Robert I, "grandson of the claimant," What claimant?
Robert Bruce of Annandale, mentioned in the opening paragraph of the subsection of John I. Since this evidently isn't as clear as I assumed perhaps a different form of words can be adopted. Open to suggestions.--SabreBD (talk)23:34, 18 December 2011 (UTC)Reply
Done This proved a tricky one. It is clear that David never paid homage to Edward and, although the original (quality online) source says that is what is happening in this picture, this is not how homage is paid, so I have made the matter clear in the text and adopted neutral language in the caption. Hopefully that resolves that one.--SabreBD (talk)06:00, 19 December 2011 (UTC)Reply
James II, "which saw the summary execution of the young William Douglas, 6th Earl of Douglas and his brother." Why?
Well the truth is no one knows. Its horribly complicated and we do not have that much evidence. An explanation could be disproportionately long. Do we need more on this or is this sufficient?--SabreBD (talk)23:34, 18 December 2011 (UTC)Reply
I think that a bit more information is needed here - otherwise it's a long jump from the fifth earl dying to the sixth one being beheaded. William Douglas, 6th Earl of Douglas says that their death came from a conspiracy to "break the power of the late Archibald Douglas's family", which culminated in them being "summarily beheaded on trumped up charges", and thus allowing the Earl of Avondale to profit. Even just this little bit of information would help readers to understand why the two sons of one of the leading men in Scotland were killed. Dana boomer (talk) 02:54, 20 December 2011 (UTC)Reply
By reducing the amount of silver in a coin in order to make (more) money. Detail is given in the economics section. Do we need it here as well for clarity?--SabreBD (talk)23:34, 18 December 2011 (UTC)Reply
James IV, "to hold justice ayres." What are justice ayres? I know ayres is linked, but from that article, it looks like they are geographical divisions, while the context of this sentence makes them sound like an event.
Done That link is of no use. They are an event - a mobile court in a defined circuit. Unfortunately (as is often the case) the articles on Wikipedia tend to assume anything legal just happened in England. I have clarified and found the best link I can (another job for when I can find the time is to create articles for these things).--SabreBD (talk)23:34, 18 December 2011 (UTC)Reply
James IV, "The Flooers o' the Forest" Is this title correct, or is there a typo?
Done Its the Scots title, although usually written with another apostrophe (which I have fixed). In that sense it is the "correct" title.--SabreBD (talk)23:34, 18 December 2011 (UTC)Reply
Lead says "a population of perhaps a million by the middle of the 14th century", Demography says "probably less than a million at its height". Perhaps a million or less than a million?
Social structure, "able to attend the Estates as of right." What does this mean?
A lord of a certain level can automatically go to parliament. At a lower level they might go because they were nominated in some other way (like representing a burgh). Not quite sure how to make that clearer, so need to think about this one.--SabreBD (talk)23:34, 18 December 2011 (UTC)Reply
Popular practice, "but with relatively poor livings" What is a living?
Done A post taken by a priest that produced a certain amount of money. I have put in a link to benefice (again, sadly, largely an English based article), not sure if this term was used in Scotland - living definitely was.--SabreBD (talk)23:34, 18 December 2011 (UTC)Reply
Popular practice, "a number of burnings" Burnings of what? People? Vestments? Books? Churches?
I think that it would make the Notes section less crowded and repetitive to use split references (short format with author, possibly title and page information for the notes, full information given once in a separate section) for books that you use multiple times. However, the way it is currently done is thoroughly MOS-compliant, so it doesn't have to be changed.
I will probably think about that one. I am not a fan of the short title system as it makes using sections as summaries very difficult, but I will look at how much space it will save.--SabreBD (talk)23:34, 18 December 2011 (UTC)Reply
A few spotchecks of sources revealed no concerns with copyvio.
James III, end of first paragraph needs a source, starting at "His foreign policy included a rapprochement with England,...", especially with regards to the policy being unpopular.
Good. I made the sourcing a little more obvious (I put it in the image info template), but otherwise nice.
File:The Old Tolbooth.jpg needs more information. The source link should if possible link directly to the image page. If that's not possible, directions should be given on how to get to the image page. If this is a reprinting of something (from a book? an engraving?) it should be noted, along with approximate date, author if known, etc.
No, this image isn't on Commons, it's hosted on en.wp. However, it still needs the information, or it doesn't meet the image criteria for GA. The information either needs to be found and added or the image removed from the article. Dana boomer (talk) 02:59, 20 December 2011 (UTC)Reply
Where the image is located has nothing to do with its sourcing - it still needs the details on where on the website it's located, where it was first published (if we're claiming free-use by first date of publication) or author (if we're claiming free-use by date of author's death). This information needs to be added to the image, whether it is located on commons or en.wp. Dana boomer (talk) 12:20, 20 December 2011 (UTC)Reply
Its location does meant that it will (hopefully) be in the right place. I have attempted a move and added the details I can gather here [1]. If that fails for some reason I will just add the details to the Wikipedia version. Hopefully an admin will be able to delete the Wikipedia file soon.--SabreBD (talk)18:36, 20 December 2011 (UTC)Reply
If you plan to take this to FAC the prose/punctuation could use a good scrubbing. I'm definitely not an expert in these matters, and so although I caught a few things, I'm sure I missed many more :) Overall it's a nice article, but could use a bit more polish before FAC. This has obviously been a huge effort, and it is well done - I enjoyed learning more about this era in Scottish history. Once the above issues are taken care of, I think the article should be good to go for GA status. Dana boomer (talk) 20:45, 18 December 2011 (UTC)Reply
OK, I've had another look through the article and everything appears to be in good shape, so I'm now passing the article to GA status. Very nice work, and thank you for your prompt responses to all of my comments! Dana boomer (talk) 00:12, 22 December 2011 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 8 months ago1 comment1 person in discussion
"In 1305 he [William Wallace] fell into the hands of the English, who executed him for treason despite the fact that he owed no allegiance to England"
Earlier it seems to say that the English king Edward I arbitrated the Scottish succession in return for Scotland accepting the overlordship of the English crown. In which case WW was under feudal duty to Edward and thus his uprising was treason. Is this wrong? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.144.213.8 (talk) 21:17, 11 December 2023 (UTC)Reply