Talk:Prunus × subhirtella

Wild species and cultivars (Prunus subhirtella and Prunus × subhirtella)

In previous editions, wild species and cultivars were confused and were not appropriate for the overall description of this species, so I revised them.--SLIMHANNYA (talk) 14:38, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Prunus subhirtella and Prunus × subhirtella are technically different concepts. Prunus × subhirtella refers to the hybrid between Prunus subhirtella and Prunus incisa. Prunus × subhirtella is considered part of Prunus subhirtella, but not the whole. Another name, autumn cherry, or winter-flowing cherry, refers to some cultivars of Prunus × subhirtella. Be careful not to confuse wild species and cultivars, as many references do not distinguish between them.--SLIMHANNYA (talk) 05:08, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

@SLIMHANNYA: There is a lot of confusion remaining in the east Asian Prunus articles. Thanks for looking into it. Abductive (reasoning) 17:03, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

I'm very sorry, but saying that Prunus subhirtella and Prunus ×subhirtella are different concepts is nonsense. The name Prunus subhirtella as given by Friedrich Anton Wilhelm Miquel in 1865 is attached to a type specimen. It obviously has become clear that this type specimen represented a hybrid between what is now known as Prunus itosakura and Prunus incisa. One cannot have the 'name' Prunus subhirtella for a non-hybrid species and at the same time Prunus ×subhirtella for a hybrid. To a botanist or a taxonomist, the current introduction of the article is a disaster. This can only be corrected and improved by someone who is skilled in nomenclatural matters and also has basic knowledge of the plants involved. Seeing what the article has become after SLIMHANNYA's contributions, at least the first skills were lacking or absent.  Wikiklaas  23:25, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

From the context it becomes very clear that the topic of this page is Prunus itosakura Siebold, coincidentally also the oldest name (1830). Prunus ×subhirtella is the hybrid of this species with Prunus incisa. But even if Prunus subhirtella would have been the eldest of the two names, the correct name for the taxon is still determined by the type to which it is fixed, and if the hybrid would have been named first, still P. ×subhirtella would have been the correct name for the cross between Prunus itosakura and P. incisa, and P. itosakura would still have been the correct name for the species. The name 'subhirtella' often having been used incorrectly doesn't change the correct application of the name.  Wikiklaas  12:13, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Another approach (and probably even a more useful one) is that this page was about the hybrid Prunus ×subhirtella before SLIMHANNYA started to make a mess of it. In that case it would make sense to restore the topic to the hybrid, and to create a new page on the species Prunus itosakura. It would do the least harm to the interwiki's and also would not set an erroneous example for other Wikipedia's to follow.  Wikiklaas  20:31, 6 May 2022 (UTC)