Talk:Minneapolis/Archive 1

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Neighborhoods

Perhaps the sentence referring to north minneapolis as the "drug capital" of the upper midwest should be removed. It is extremely POV and inaccurate. ReverendG 22:00, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Climate

I'm thinking there could be a climate section for Minneapolis. After all when people think of Minneapolis they think cold snowy winters. Just like when one thinks of Seatle they think of cloudy rainy days.

Famous Minnepolitians

Do not put people who were not born in Minnesota in this part. When people look at the names they think they were born there when they were not.. don't place famous people there unless they were born in Minnesota.

Well, what about people who were born in the metro area? They could be referred to as famous Minneapolitans even if they weren't born there. I noticed the Coen Brothers aren't mentioned, even though they did start out making movies as teenagers in Minneapolis. Although they were born outside of Minneapolis (in a suburb), they did spend a lot of their time in that city.Moebius42 21:52, 19 February 2007 (UTC)Moebius42

Crime

It would be nice to have some hard statistics on crime, or even a mention about the sharp increase of foreign-born immigrants to the Twin Cities as a reason for increasing crime (a fact - look it up).

Hello (unsigned). What source and statistics are you asking for? The table of crime data was added eight days ago. The source is the Minneapolis Police Department, the same reports and same numbers they give to the FBI. I don't think you will find any harder statistics. -Susanlesch 21:47, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Previous talk

--- Umm... we have to have some consensus as to how strict we are about where people live and where they were born. Neil Gaiman does not live in Minneapolis, he lives near it. Bob Dylan only lived in Minneapolis briefly. Al Franken was born and raised in Saint Louis Park, which is five minutes from downtown Minneapolis. He lived and got his comedic start in Minneapolis. If we are going to exclude some and not others, let's at least get out standards straight. For now, I am putting Franken back in.

---

Amanda Wildefyre.

---

A little girl from Minneapolis came home from Sunday School with a frown on her face.

"I'm not going back there anymore," she announced with finality. "I don't like the Bible they keep teaching us."

"Why not?" asked her astonished mother.

"Because," said the little girl, "the Bible is always talking about St. Paul, and it never once mentions Minneapolis."

---

Minneapolis is a suburb, according to the Gospel of St. Paul.

---

Isn't Honeywell also headquartered in Minneapolis? -- Zoe

---

Yes. So is Pillsbury. And Dairy Queen. And Cargill,
a grain-industry giant that does not deal directly with the-proverbial-person-on-the-street. Michael Hardy 02:18 Jan 20, 2003 (UTC)

---

Also see Honeywell's Minnesota-based Merger Mishaps

South Minneapolis Neighborhood Community Stewardship was funded by civic-minded Honeywell corporate leadership
to help off-set chaos of periodic campus visits by local protest groups organized by Norm Davidoff ...

Note: Grand Metropolitan plc./Diageo dba Pillsbury Brands
successfully re-merged with General Mills at Golden Valley
in western Hennepin County near Lake Minnetonka

65.30.117.192 11:58, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Bob-RJ Burkhart, LCDR-USNR, Ret.

• Minnesota Valley: Port of Bloomington "geoWIZard" (1972-2004)

---

Actually, no. In the 90s, Honeywell merged (was acquired?) and most of its Minneapolis and suburban facilities closed. Its main campus was bought by Wells Fargo Mortgage (a division of a West Coast bank that merged with a prominent local bank, Northwestern) and expanded that site. Wells Fargo, along with the hospitals in the nearby area, have significantly invested in upgrading housing and supporting social services in the nearby Phillips, Whittier and other blighted South neighborhoods.

Pillsbury was also purchased by several (most significantly British) companies in the last decade, and was finally brought back into the fold with its merger with long-time competitor, General Mills. Pillsbury occupies a modern office building in downtown, while General Mills sprawls on a lovely corporate campus about 10 miles west of downtown.

Wells Fargo was acquired by Norwest, which then changed its name to Wells Fargo and relocated from Minneapolis to San Francisco, where Wells Fargo had always been headquartered. Thus an illusion was created that Wells Fargo had acquired Norwest. Michael Hardy 03:27, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Yes, that was about a 5-minute branding discussion. "Hmm, a Big Green N versus a hundred and fifty years of American mythos, including the Pony Express and even a TV show...." :-) Charles T. Betz 02:45, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, no. The Agreement filed with the SEC was a merger, not an acquisition. I had thought otherwise as well until I actually researched it today. Idsfa 21:56, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

---

Shouldn't the rap group Atmosphere be in the section. Also, normaly, suburbs are considered part of the city as far as this article is concerned. False Prophet 01:44, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Political Climate

Although labeled as a Swing State in the 2004 election, Minneapolis voted consistently and dominantly Democrat.

And it has since 1974, I believe--that was the last year the state chose a Republican, right? I can't remember.

The state has been traditionally Democratic (actually Democratic-Farmer-Laborer, the Minnesota branch of the Dems). I don't see the relevance to the city of Minneapolis, though -- this should go in an article about Minnesota itself. neckro 00:01, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

1974 was NOT a presidential election year! How can people get confused about that when the rule is so simple: they're just the years whose numbers are multiples of 4.

1972 was the year when every state except Massachusetts went to Nixon, not because people liked him but because his opponent was unpopular. 1948 was the year in which the Farmer-Labor Party merged with the Democratic Party, and after that Minnesotans generaly voted for the candidate endorsed by the labor unions, with exceptions based on individual situations or politicians. Michael Hardy 22:39, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Skyways

Do the skyways stay open all night? If so, do homeless people sleep in there?

• No, the skyways close when the stores they connect close. Some sections are closed when the buildings they connect are closed. Sections which remain open are supervised by security staff and police. (SEWilco 15:21, 8 October 2005 (UTC))
  • The skyway system must not be that comprehensive. Don't some people who live in downtown have skyways going to their apartment buildings? I would think these would have to stay open all night. There must not be a lot of those or the police force wouldn't have time to do anything else. Transit 04:20, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
    • Such a skyway connects to the building's lobby, so entering through the skyway provides the same access to the building as entering the door from the street. Skyways to residence buildings don't connect directly to hallways of apartments. (SEWilco 15:35, 11 October 2005 (UTC))
      • Some skyways do connect directly to the lobbys of aparments, allowing residents to go from their parking garage to their apartment without going outside. Though there is security doors between the apartment hallways and the skyways.

Regional stuff on this page

There seems to be a growing level of stuff on this page that might be better placed on the article for the Twin Cities region, Minneapolis-St. Paul. My opinion is that there should probably be a somewhat better delineation of what is in Minneapolis, what is in St. Paul, and what is elsewhere. But I guess it's hard to have an appropriate level of strictness... Anyway, I'm mostly just looking for opinions. —User:Mulad (talk) 17:58, Nov 14, 2004 (UTC)

• St. Paul -- isn't that one of the suburbs?

I'm not sure if that's some attempt at a troll, but no. St. Paul is the other main city in the Minneapolis-St. Paul metropolitan area. The cities that ring the area are considered suburbs of one or the other. neckro 09:32, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Yeeeaaahhh, St. Paul is the capitol.

Capital (with an a), not capitol (with an o). And Minneapolis is a suburb, according to the Gospel of St. Paul. Michael Hardy 01:17, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

as for the delineation......it's kind of hard because locals do very little delineating between St. Paul and Minneapolis. They are different, but they tend to blend together

Minneapolis/Saint Paul is not the right name for the region. There is a TON of activity in the suburbs and ex-urbs: Eden Prairie and along 494 has tons of software companies and "medical alley"; 3M is in Maplewood (east of Saint Paul); Medtronic is north (Fridley), Prince's Paisley_Park is in Chanhassen. I have friends who grew up in Anoka (North) or Prior Lake (South). I say this sadly as a Minneapolitan who wants more activity in Minneapolis!  :) Anyway, I think we call this urban region the Twin Cities Metro Area. That should be the regional page if there is one. Anyone care to confirm or deny? dfrankow 16:28, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Guthrie Theater

I saw that Guthrie Theater links to Tyrone Guthrie in this article, I was going to write an article on the theater itself. I'd change the link here to the theater article, put a link to Tyrone in it and add a link in the Mpls article to the Tyrone article as well. How does that sound?

The Guthrie Theater merits its own article. Please be bold and go for it. Jonathunder 23:52, 2005 Apr 1 (UTC)

OK, it's there, and it's a stub. Michael Hardy 01:21, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Northeast

I added an article on "Nordeast" There's some things I'd still like to add\change that I talked about on its talk page. I'm going to be working on some of the red links on this page as well Rx StrangeLove 02:19, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Nordeast Minneapolis. ;-) Looks like a good start, lots of great content there. I fixed some mechanical stuff. Jonathunder 02:46, 2005 Apr 25 (UTC)

Speaking of red links, I added a Suburbs article, someone who knows more about them might want to add some material about their shows etc. I only saw them a couple times, don't really have many memories about them. Rx StrangeLove 14:51, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

city class?

My apologies in advance for stepping on Midwestern toes, but is Minneapolis really a "world-class" city? I don't see any evidence for putting it in the same group as New York, Paris, London, Tokyo, Singapore, et al.. The linking article mentions "tiers" of such a status; perhaps some qualification might be in order?? 66.82.9.39(Mashford - cookies disabled)

Minneapolis may be a very clean and quite a liveable city but here goes, it is not a world class city. This whole "world-class" moniker is really becoming a little bit ridiculous, as every city seems to be using it. A World class city is a city has a global presence and influence, a city that everybody knows something about....London, Paris, Tokyo, New York, yes, Singapore, Minneapolis, no. --142.161.179.115 04:46, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

There is no question the Metro Area's crime level is insufficient to qualify it as a "world class" city. But we're trying. Wahkeenah 08:09, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

See global city for more information: there you can find the Globalization and World Cities Study Group & Network (GaWC)'s classification of world-class cities. They list Minneapolis as a 4-point city (out of 12), putting it in the same group as Berlin, Istanbul, and Shanghai. Colin M. 08:49, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Bob Dylan

As a decidedly unfamous person who was born & grew up in Minneapolis – and as an old-time Bob Dylan fan – I think it's a bit cheesy to claim Dr. Bob as a famous "Minneapolitan." He only lived in Mpls. a couple years. OK, so he once sang at the old Scholar coffeehouse in Dinkytown. He's spent most of his life elsewhere, and he wasn't born in Mpls. either.

Sca 18:57, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Photos

This article is desperately in need of photos! See New York City to see how photos can really enhance a page. It's also fun to see your photos up on Wikipedia. Anyone want to go around and take some relevant photos? I'd do it but I'm not in Mpls. now. Moncrief 19:57, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

Heh, I've been trying a bit, but the weather has not been cooperating for the last few weeks. Too many days of rain and overcast skies. Plus, my camera has a poor CCD, so even when the weather is nice, many of the photos are pretty sub-par (sometimes the camera surprises me, though). I'm trying to think of some good places to take pictures anyway... The new Walker Art Center shoud get photographed by someone who knows what they're doing, and I'm pretty sure I'll get the new Guthrie Theater when it's done (I live pretty close to it). We need a photo of First Avenue and some of the nearby theaters. The Target Center doesn't have a photo yet. Otherwise, I suppose folks can just start walking through the list of things on the National Register of Historic Places (start here) —Mulad (talk) 02:58, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)

I have tons of good quality digital photos that I've taken around the city saved on my computer. Most city landmarks and a lot of skyline shots that are pretty good. But I dunno how to load them on here, let alone edit the article...if someone wants to use them, email me elfangor801@yahoo.com

Ummmm, a lot of the photos on this page are subpar but not only that some I think are actually copyright infringing because I have seen them in official publications before (notably IM Pei's tower). If someone would please clean those out. I'll try to bring in new photos on my own. Certainly my photo of downtown from East Bank campus isn't amazing at all, just a spur of the moment. ~~ Eric http://www.davumaya.com

No Spoon picture?

What kind of an article is this about Mpls :) Its gotta have a pic of the Spoon sculpture :) Jawed 04:31, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I'll fork over what I've got, and we'll see if that encourages someone to post a superior example. :) Wahkeenah 09:55, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I did it, but I've been scooped. That Minnesota University lad's photo in the separate Spoonbridge and Cherry link is way much better. The purpose of my two is to show some contrast between summer and winter, as the photos were taken from the exact same point. If someone thinks they are too poor to be in the article, it won't hurt (much) if someone reverts them. ); Wahkeenah 10:16, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Do you have a picture of the Abstract Angry Man frowning at Hennepin Avenue just up the hill? I suspect the best view is from the pedestrian bridge, looking up Hennepin over the tunnel at dusk, when the eyes should be glowing. (SEWilco 19:58, 9 August 2005 (UTC))

Don't have it. Maybe you should ask User:Mulad, who seems to have a lot of TC photos. Wahkeenah 20:02, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Photo licenses

Please check the image description page (just click on the image) of your favorite image to check that it has proper licensing information. Tags in Wikipedia:Image copyright tags are preferred. I created Category:Images of Minneapolis, Minnesota but because those should have one of more free-use licenses I was unable to add a number of unlicensed images. For example, one Spoon and Cherry image had proper information while two others did not. (SEWilco 05:59, 17 August 2005 (UTC))

Are you referring to my summer-and-winter images of the spoons? Those are scans of photos I took. I don't understand the licensing stuff, it's all mumbo-jumbo to me, so I just uploaded them with a bare explanation and let it go at that. Feel free to attach an appropriate label to them, and given that example, I shall try to do better in the future. Wahkeenah 11:56, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• We can't attach a label because you hold the copyright and you have to state how you allow it to be used. Wikipedia requires text and photos to meet certain licensing requirements or it can not be used, so if you don't specify a license someone will eventually delete it. (SEWilco 15:39, 17 August 2005 (UTC))

Where could I see an example of such? Wahkeenah 22:47, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Well, when you upload an image there is a suggestion to instead upload to Wikimedia Commons, where it can be used on any of the related projects. That requires a free license, which are explained at Commons:Commons:Licensing; you have to create an account in the Commons site and upload there rather than to this site (images then can be accessed as if they were on this site). When uploading, you can put a license template in the description, which are listed in Commons:Commons:Copyright tags. If you want to give up control over your work completely, you can donate it to the public domain, see Commons:Commons:Donate to the public domain. There are similar pages in this site, also linked to on the "Upload file" page. (SEWilco 04:45, 18 August 2005 (UTC))
  • If you do upload to Commons, one minor difference exists. The aforementioned Image:Spoonbridge and Cherry.jpg is in Commons. If you link on the link just given, you'll see there is a Category listed at the bottom and no Description other than that it is a Commons Image. That is because there is a Description in this site, in this case one which contains the Category information. Click on the link "its description page there" to jump to the Commons Image Description page. (SEWilco 04:45, 18 August 2005 (UTC))

Aerial images

I added a couple of aerial and satellite images to Minneapolis-St. Paul which may be useful. (SEWilco 06:59, 20 August 2005 (UTC))

• Not used, help yourself: Landsat [1], water quality [2], Skylab [3] (SEWilco 03:28, 21 August 2005 (UTC))

• Nice, thank you. Landsat and flyby are added. Then they moved to Geography of Minneapolis, Minnesota which come to think of it might benefit from water quality or others sometime. -Susanlesch 04:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I took this from a plane a few years ago and have used it now and again as a desktop background. If anyone thinks it might be a worthwhile addition to the page, please use it. --Msr657 20:32, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

"I love the Mini-Apple"

Does anyone remember the "I love the Mini-Apple" Minneapolis' image-boosting campaign? Because of that campaign, many Ojibwe language speakers don't call Minneapolis by its traditional name Gakaabikaang (at the falls), but rather as Mishiiminens-oodena (mini-apple town). Was this at the same time as or shortly after the New York City's "I ♥ New York"/"The Big Apple" campaign? CJLippert 06:56, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Changed the skyline photo

The skyline photo in the top info-bar was an good night photo of the Stone Arch Bridge, but had nothing from the downtown skyline in it. So I added a photo I had of the downtown skyline + Metrodome; however, I liked the Stone Arch Bridge photo and moved it to the top of History, and then simply moved the other skyline photo from there down a few paragraphs. Bobak 22:24, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Minneapolitans

Ahh, is this correct, and can a citing please be provided. I have lived in Minneapolis most of my life and asked others who have lived here for 60+ years and havent heard of this. Just wondering were its from, and without pending evidence, im going to go ahead and remove the statement "People living in Minneapolis are called Minneapolitans." THanks.--Geppy 05:40, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Really because I also live in Minneapolis and have heard this term used by many people, most recently at precinct caucuses on the 7th. It IS used EdwinHJ | Talk 16:38, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I've long thought the term is standard. Michael Hardy 01:09, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Good to know, i will add it to my lexicon.--Geppy 20:34, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Sister Cities

Although Winnipeg lists Minneapolis as a sister city, Minneapolis does not. I've checked their city website. Anyone have the facts on that one? jdobbin 19:24, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Smear

Some conservative commentators have pejoratively called it Moscow on the Mississippi in reference to the city's highly liberal politics[citation needed]. I deleted this once, but it was reverted quickly reverted. It has no citation, but even if it did it is an irrelevant smear.--RLent 17:18, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

It's not a smear, it's a fact; conservative commentators have called Minneapolis "Moscow on the Mississippi" (as well as Saint Paul, although that might be more of an architecture reference) and "Berkeley on the Prairie". I don't know that many of them get print citations (a google shows a bunch of options). I believe former Twin Cities talk host Jason Lewis used the term, as has (if memory serves, and it may well not) Joe Soucheray.

Does that fact have a place in this article? Perhaps, although I can see the need have a separate section (or subsection) on the city's political tradition (to which I'd be happy to contribute).

Mitchberg 17:45, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

It may be a fact that some conservatives used that smear, but that doesn't make it any less of a smear. I don't see how political smears are relevant to the article.--RLent 18:46, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I question whether it's a "smear" at all. I suppose it depends on your POV, but it's a hyperbolic quip to illustrate a perception of the state of Minneapolis politics. You may not agree with the observation or find it inoffensive - and it may not belong in the article, outside of a potential section on current Minneapolis politics - but I suggest that it's an observation worth including (in some form, at any rate).

Mitchberg 20:44, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Unless the government of Minneapolis has thrown millions of people into gulags and psychiatric wards and graves, this Moscow on the Mississippi "quip" is beyond hyperbole. It's an insult to the city governments involved and it trivialises one of history's great catastrophes (Stalin-era USSR). Wouldn't you find, say, calling NYPD Police Headquarters "Gestapo on the Hudson" a smear? Same difference. In contrast, "Berkeley on the Prarie" is more reasonable on the face of it, since nothing too terrible has ever happened in Berkeley. 152.163.100.69 21:21, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Relative Size

According to the List of United States cities by population, Minneapolis is now 48th. The core cities would rank, by 2004 estimates, at 18th, between Memphis and Baltimore with a population of 650906. Louisville is way down on the list. If there are no objections in the next couple of days, I will make this paragraph, you know, correct. ColinKennedy 19:22, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Some suggested edits from a Richmonder

I am from Richmond Virginia reading up on your city. Afting having edited the RVA article extensively, I figured I would share some feedback about some possible edits to make the Minneapolis article more reader friendly.

• Firstly, I would recommend that you move discussion of all your roads to an article called Transportation in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I like reading about the fact that you have bike paths, but I am not so interested in the numerical naming scheme for roads I will likely never drive on. See Transportation in Richmond, Virginia for ideas.
• Secondly, your Media in the Twin Cities is probably the place to put the call signs of all the radio stations in Minneapolis. Your average readership is likely not likely going to be interested in how to find an easy listening station in Minneapolis.
• Thirdly, you may want to crate a new article called List of famous Mineapolitans. The current Minneapolitan list is a lot of people I have not heard of. If they are really notable, I would suggest adding 5 to 10 descriptive words to the right of each Minneapolitan so that I know who they are or what they have done. Doing this will also help you to scrub the list, since vandals sometimes add bogus notable people to lists of famous people. See List of famous Richmonders for my mental model on this.

I would be bold and do all this myself but I wanted to get some comment on it first. MPS 18:45, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

• Agree, Highways could go elsewere. So could light rail proposals maybe. List of Minneapolitans could be trimmed. List of musicians and band could move to Music of Minnesota. -Susanlesch 16:41, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Photos

I'm planning on taking a day and doing some photography around the Twin Cities. Is there anything in particular editors interested in Mpls would like, other then the ones at the top of the page? I'm hoping to do it this week, probably Thursday. Let me know on my talk page if you have suggestions. Thanks! Rx StrangeLove 01:34, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Given the cool and overcast weather around these parts I though I'd wait til this week when it's supposed to be clearer, so I'm still open to suggestions....Rx StrangeLove 01:34, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Survey on proposal to make U.S. city naming guidelines consistent with others countries

There is a survey in progress at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (settlements) to determine if there is consensus on a proposed change to the U.S. city naming conventions to be consistent with other countries, in particular Canada.

This proposal would allow for this article to be located at San Diego instead of San Diego, California, bringing articles for American cities into line with articles for cities such as Paris and Toronto.--DaveOinSF 16:38, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

However the proposal would allow U.S. cities to be inconsistent with the vast majority of other U.S. cities and towns, which (with a few exceptions) all use the "city, state" convention. -Will Beback 23:39, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Relative Size worldwide comparison.

I have been unable to verify the current claim for ranking 65th in world metropolitan areas. There doesn't seem to be a consistent answer to this question but the Twin Cities seems to rank 105th [4], 114th [5] or 135th [6] depending on the source.

Can we simply remove this claim as there doesn't seem to be any way to readily verify it? Caladil 17:28, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree; unless a source is found, the 65th-in-the-world claim should be removed. I've also been thinking about the three articles, Minneapolis, Minnesota, Saint Paul, Minnesota, and Minneapolis-St. Paul. My plan is to modify Minneapolis to include only information about the city itself, and move all "metro area" facts to the Minneapolis-St. Paul article. This would include items from many categories, including famous people, media, population statistics, education, economy, etc. I've already worked on St. Paul quite a bit, trying to keep it focussed on that city. (It is a current nomination for GA.) I haven't started tackling Minneapolis yet though. I'd like agreement from others that this is a good strategy and help accomplishing that. It will also take some coordinated maintenance to keep it that way - people dump metro facts here all the time. Appraiser 18:18, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

• Agree, Minneapolis and Saint Paul are distinct. A comment above on this page thought the entire metro area might also be important. Do you see Minneapolis-St. Paul as including Bloomington? Edina? White Bear Lake? -Susanlesch 16:44, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

15th or 16th biggest

I reverted a change in the article to MSA being the 15th largest whose sources were an EPA webpage and the MN state site both of which were using 2000 census figures. My change was reverted. Here are my reasons for using 16th largest:

• 16th largest is what wikipedia uses. This contradicts another article if we use 15th largest
• 16th largest is as of 2005 census estimates, which are not only more recent, but also what all other wikipedia metropolitan area pages are using as a basis of comparison. We'd be comparing a 2000 population to other 2005 populations.
• If Minneapolis is 15th largest, where do we put the Greater Seattle area in rank?

Thanks.--Loodog 03:12, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I did the reversion because the two references cited said 15th, and there haven't been any primary source documents cited that say 16th. There may very well be one using 2005 data that says it's 16th, but that source hasn't been cited. The article you mentioned, United States metropolitan area indicates that it is using 2005 data, but the article is very poorly sourced. I did a quick look at the documents that article claims as references, and I couldn't even figure our which one was used for these rankings. If you find one that has more recent data that ranks MSP at 16th, feel free to use that data and cite the primary source. The fact that United States metropolitan area says so isn't a good enough reason to make an unsubstantiated claim. And it is not a contradiction if the sources use different dates or different areas. I've seen 7,11, and 13 counties used; some even include two Wisconsin counties.

Besides this, as I mentioned above in Relative Size worldwide comparison, my plan is to move all references to the Twin Cities Metropolitan Area to Minneapolis-St. Paul and reserve this article for information about the city of Minneapolis proper. Appraiser 03:36, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

All numbers on the United States metropolitan area page came from 2005 government census figures. For the spreadsheet, see this, which came from this page. I believe we should use these as the standard baseline for comparison of metropolitan areas, or else we're mixing years.--Loodog 05:27, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I've put it back to 16th, with cite. That wasn't my main objective anyhow. It was getting rid of that 65th world wide claim that I knew we couldn't support. The number for 15th were the first things that came up on Google and I just went with them. I didn't see your comment above until I'd already made the change. The cite on the page right now is pointing to 2000 data. The point is moot anyhow, the 2000 number also say 16th. During my visit to the Census Bureau's website, I didn't see any main page links to 2005 data. It might be out there. I do think that published numbers are probably more credible than estimates. But, as I said, its all moot anyhow. -- Caladil 05:38, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

That looks good now; the claim matches the verifiable citation from a credible source. Appraiser 14:05, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Just in case you need 2005 data at some point, this can be found via American FactFinder on the Census Bureau's home page. 2005 data is only available for cities above a certain size, and I don't know of any other way to find it. Natalie 02:25, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

See my above comment for the addresses of the census data. Also FYI, the census website is generally easy to navigate, as I found the above information in a few minutes.--Loodog 04:02, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Images

Hello. I changed a few images -- a lighter skyline, still not perfect maybe, the whole City Hall, added the Pillsbury mill and Wells Fargo and Hennepin County Government Center; and removed two of three of the Stone Arch Bridge. It's AOK with me if anyone wishes to revert. I miss a nice winter photo and some lakes someday. Best wishes. -Susanlesch 06:03, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

• Added several more images. Sorry I don't know enough about the Lakota Sioux (?) to find a picture for the first section of history. -Susanlesch 11:20, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Can someone go in and edit the layout of the page? With all these images the text is awkward to read and the general appearance is bad in general. Images good, too many images bad. Han0100 16:27, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

• It makes perfect sense to me to remove images at some point. Earlier comments on this page asked for more images. IMHO, when the scope of the article is clear, it will be clear what images need to be added or cut. Does that make sense to you, Han0100? -Susanlesch 16:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good, I just went through and deleted a couple images from the left side that aren't emphasized in the article. I also added a short blurb about Wells Fargo having a large presence in town to go along with the photo of the WF tower that was added.Han0100 16:53, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Proposed merges

• {Merge|History of Minneapolis|date=January 2007}
• {Merge|Transportation in Minnesota|date=January 2007}
• {Merge|Music of Minnesota|date=January 2007}
• {Merge|Twin Cities|date=January 2007}

Hello. The text of this article is really good, just too long I am told. Here are a few concrete ideas on how to shorten the article.

1. Proposing that the list of famous people be shortened to include only people who have at some time been residents (not those who have lived nearby).
2. Proposing that the list of films be trimmed (and referenced to the full list).
3. Proposing that the list of bands from Minneapolis be merged with Music of Minnesota.
4. Proposing that the list of highways and the list of proposed light rail lines be merged with Transportation in Minnesota.

Sound good? If you have ideas about other ways to tighten this up it would be great. -Susanlesch 20:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

History in particular is long relative to other city articles. Recommend: trim to one barebones section with link to

Main article: History of Minneapolis

.--Loodog 21:00, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I recommend moving everything that doesn't pertain to within the Minneapolis city limits to the appropriate city or to the Twin Cities article. There are references to MOA, Southdale, metro-area population, Minnesota demographics, many films made in the metro area rather than within Minneapolis. --Appraiser 21:17, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

• Thanks. Tags for Loodog and Appraiser's merge ideas added and one added to the article to point here. -Susanlesch 23:41, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

• What I cut or moved is saved here. -Susanlesch 11:23, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I propse this cut section get merged into Minneapolis-St.Paul as relevant:

Famous people from the Twin Cities area (near Minneapolis), or in Minneapolis for a brief time

Kofi Annan attended Macalester College (Saint Paul) Garrison Keillor, host of A Prairie Home Companion (Anoka, Saint Paul) Jesse Ventura, wrestler and former Governor of Minnesota (Brooklyn Park)was born James Janos in Mpls and attended Roosevelt High School in Mpls Kirby Puckett (grew up in Chicago, lived in Minneapolis suburbs) Bob Dylan (grew up in Hibbing, Minnesota, spent brief time in Minneapolis) Loni Anderson Born in Saint Paul, TV and film actress Bradley Joseph Born in Willmar, now resides in Twin Cities metro area David D. Burns Born in Minneapolis

Cricket02 04:19, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

• Some done. History and demographics moved. Maybe there are more candidates for separate articles, too. -Susanlesch 06:25, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Famous Minneapolitans

To be useful given Category:People_from_Minneapolis%2C_Minnesota, the list in Minneapolis, Minnesota with photos needs to be short. Does anyone have proposals for leaders or famous Minneapolitans who are African-American, Hispanic, Latino, Latina, Hmong or Asian? I tried to add women and Native Americans but am not sure those given now are the right choices. The people could have lived there only a brief time (but in the city not nearby). Once a group is known maybe the list can be shortened a little. -Susanlesch 07:02, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

• Added Sayles Belton and Ellison for now. -Susanlesch 13:42, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
• Removed Peter Graves, Katherine Nash, Clellan Card, Grace Lee Nute, Kirby Puckett, Ali Khalif Galaydh and others.
• Bob Dylan might belong in the list if Prescott and Kydland do.

Please see Talk:Minneapolis, Minnesota/Drafts for more cuts. -Susanlesch 14:59, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• Some user cut Jean-Nickolaus Tretter and Karen Clark because their links were red. I will add them to the project list of people. -Susanlesch 05:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• Why Karen Clark and not Neva Walker, Linda Berglin, Wes Skoglund, Jim Davnie, Jean Wagenius, and Patricia Torres Ray, just to name some of the legislators based in south Minneapolis? And clearly, including all of them would dominate the list with local politicians. Better to leave them off. Mullibok 15:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• Notability is the reason. Clark has served 26 years as the first openly lesbian legislator in the United States. I know of no plan to include all state legislators, any more than a plan to include all actors or all business people. -Susanlesch 15:34, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Her biography does not mention her being the first, but rather the longest-serving. Neva Walker is the first black woman to be in the MN legislature, Patricia Torres Ray is the first Hispanic woman, and I'm sure there are many other firsts out there. I'm not terribly where one would decide it is reasonable to draw the line, and hence that it is generally better to keep them off. Mullibok 19:59, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

• Woops, you are right. Sorry about that. -Susanlesch 01:14, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

• Proposed criteria as of today. I hope someone here will help correct them. -Susanlesch 16:31, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Criteria

• Maximum of 50 people
• Residence however brief in the city of Minneapolis (for example, not Saint Paul or Bloomington)
• Influence outside Minneapolis (for example, an award or obituary might establish this)
• Notability compared to others in the list
• Balance of field of interests (for example, if the list has three musicians and you add one then remove one)
• Exceptions as agreed on this talk page (for example, careers of women and minorities may not be as well documented as white males)
• Birthplace of Minneapolis is not a requirement as Wikipedia already generates Category:People from_Minneapolis, Minnesota

Music

Hello. Does anyone know how to be fair with this number of musicians? -Susanlesch 18:13, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

• The Andrews Sisters, singers
• Bob Dylan, singer-songwriter
• Sharon Isbin, guitarist
• Leo Kottke, guitarist
• Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, record producers
• Prince, musician
• Tiny Tim, musician
• Paul Westerberg, musician

Image deletions

Temporarily restoring a user's image deletions until the above discussions reach conclusion. -Susanlesch 20:35, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

• Someone has deleted all of them including the public domain images. -Susanlesch 22:20, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

• Feel free to restore the PD images.--NMajdan•talk 01:16, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

• Sorry NMajdan, but I just spent hours talking to you and others about this in the Village Pump (assistance) and fixing up what was left and am not only out of time I am set back a day. Also, you aren't the person who deleted them. I saved the discussion here in case anyone needs it for later. Thanks anyway. -Susanlesch 01:24, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Red links

Except the neighborhoods missing in the template, all of the red links have been replaced with either a new article, a link to an external site, or no link. I am not sure about WikiProject Minnesota, but no red links is a requirement for a B class biography and looks useful here too. -Susanlesch 15:34, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Most biked?

I added a dubious tag to the following phrase:

"Minneapolis is one of the most-biked large cities in the United States."

There are many larger, more compact, warmer, and less automotive-friendly cities in the United States that must have higher bike ridership.--Loodog 03:27, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

• I wondered too. I agree this section might have been overstating things and trimmed it way back. If these three edits aren't good then I propose the article only discuss the bike paths. Does it look better now? -Susanlesch 03:35, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

• add one cite, unfortunately the data is 1996 though
• rm unsourced 10,000 riders because US census "other means" includes motorcycle, bicycle, walked only, and worked at home
• rm unsourced UofM ridership, and statement that locals call winter riders "die-hards"

• Hi, Loodog. I see you retagged as failed verification. See page 12 "other means" column. -Susanlesch 03:40, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

No, I saw, and then noticed as you did that the stated information wasn't supported there.--Loodog 03:48, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

• Agree, and keeping unsourced statements won't help the article improve. -Susanlesch 03:52, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

2005 Population

Just throwing this out there, but the 2005 American Fact Finder survey doesn't include college students living in dorms for their population estimates. And the University of Minnesota (More than 50,000 students) sits comfortably within Minneapolis' border. Which short changes it's population by something probably in the neighborhood of 30 or 40 thousand people, seeing as not all college students live in a dorm obviously. So we may want to take off the 2005 number seeing as it's, well, wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elfangor801 (talk • contribs) 03:35, February 22, 2007

Boston has ~250,000 college students. Philadelphia, also around 250,000. They are not counted in population estimates. This is how it's done.--Loodog 03:50, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Templates

Hi. Does anyone have comments pro or con on the use of templates? For now several were added to Category:Minnesota_navigational_boxes. Also, in the case of MinneapolisPeople and MinneapolisProSports, is it useful to store paragraphs outside the Minneapolis article? I thought of those because sports had a few reverts for the Wild. Or do you think that extra step makes it too hard for future editors? Google didn't find a precedent but I may have missed discussion somewhere. -Susanlesch 04:17, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Daughter articles

Hello. The merges are all started and then some more. Is this structure what you had in mind? Is it working? Or is it too much work? Is the City of Minneapolis template misleading because it links to stubs? In the edit history you can see it had neighborhoods, communities and business areas, and Minnesota county seats and largest cities. But it looked pretty long to me. -Susanlesch 04:17, 22 March 2007 (UTC)