Talk:King Oliver

Title

As Wikipedia now has the capability to have quote marks in titles, I see someone moved the article from Joe King Oliver to Joe "King" Oliver. That seems fine... but the links and redirects were not changed with the move.

Should things be changed to go to Joe "King" Oliver? Or perhaps the simpler King Oliver (I don't believe there was anyone else commony refered to that way, and many pages already link to that name. -- Infrogmation 17:24, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Yes, but wasn't there more than one "King"? I thought Buddy Bolden was a King first. Nonetheless, King Oliver just doesn't sound right. Seems to me you could just let the situation drift until one of those botmeisters comes along to solve it by replacing all the Joe King Olivers with Joe "King" Olivers. Ortolan88 17:47, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Title Episode 2: November 2006

User:Koavf has changed the title of this article to just "Joe Oliver." This seems wrong. After all, this was a famous musician known commonly as King Oliver. How many people interested in Jazz history are going to come to Wikipedia looking for Joe Oliver? He should be known by his most common name convention, which was King Oliver, or if one wants the full name, Joe "King" Oliver. StudierMalMarburg 22:27, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree, it should go back to "Joe "King" Oliver" (or a close variation thereof). Yes, some people who remembered him called him "Joe Oliver", but no one called him "Joe Oliver (musician)"; his common nickname disambiguates him well. Unless a good reason why this change should be prefered is offered, I will move the article back. -- Infrogmation 22:32, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I moved it back. -- Infrogmation 00:01, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Source

Could someone source this please?

Although Oliver performed mostly on cornet, the instrument is virtually identical to the trumpet. Oliver is second on the historical list of the greatest jazz trumpet innovators: Buddy Bolden, Oliver, Armstrong, Roy Eldridge, Dizzy Gillespie, and Miles Davis.

What historical list? I didn't know there was a list. If someone doesn't source then I am going to come back and delete it later as POV hdstubbs

I agree with deleting it as POV (although a POV of a supposed direct line of a few musicians as a summary of all jazz history I've heard more than once). -- Infrogmation 22:18, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Changed. November 4 2005.

Discography

For the time being I moved this "Discography" section below to talk. It lists only the two sides issued by Autograph (good stuff, but some of the most obscure of his dozens of sides before the modern reissues). The external link gives a better idea of his recording career than this does. -- Infrogmation 23:48, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Discography

• King Porter, December 1924, recorded in Chicago, Illinois
• Tom Cat, December 1924, recorded in Chicago, Illinois

Date of death

We need to cover the fact that his gravestone says he died 8 April, but we say he died 10 April. Why is there a discrepancy? -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 10:59, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out this discrepancy, Jack. Please see the footnote I added to the Death section of Oliver's page. I believe the death certificate should be the final authority as to somebody's date of death. Maybe somebody can obtain King Oliver's from that Georgia courthouse, scan it and link it to his page? The dates which are "carved in stone" on people's grave markers can be wrong. Some of my own ancestors and relatives have wrong info on their graves; their family members couldn't afford to pay the stonecutters to correct the errors! -- DutchmanInDisguise (talk) 14:54, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Belated thanks, Dutchman. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 00:13, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved as proposed. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 12:56, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

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Joe "King" Oliver → King Oliver – This double titling is deprecated on Wikipedia, he is usually known as plain "King Oliver", which already redirects here. PatGallacher (talk) 01:05, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

• But he is not a king. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 07:33, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
  • We also have Lady Gaga, Screaming Lord Sutch, King Kong, and several people called Earl (given name). PatGallacher (talk) 15:17, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
• Move to King Oliver per WP:COMMONNAME. Binksternet (talk) 15:21, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
• Move per WP:COMMONNAME.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:37, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
• Move to Joe Oliver (musician), Joe Oliver (bandleader), Joseph Nathan Oliver, or King Oliver: Per WP:NICKNAME: "Notable distinctions can be explained in the article, but avoid (for example) adding a nickname, or a contracted version of the original first name(s) in quotes between first and last name. For example: Bill Clinton, not William "Bill" Clinton." Also see Whitey Bulger, not James "Whitey" Bulger and ongoing RM discussion at Talk:Charles "Tex" Watson. —BarrelProof (talk) 16:18, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
• Support. Use of common name. Coreyemotela (talk) 12:44, 3 May 2014 (UTC).

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Funeral

Can anyone provide the paragraph which states that Max Roach was in attendance at King's burial? Max would only have been 14 at the time...

I have found a link to the full text of "KING OF JAZZ" which I believe is the same source cited, at it states:

"By 1935, Oliver could no longer play, but the touring, such as it was, continued. In 1936, his headquarters were in Savannah. He had not enough clothes, he was ill. Again, there was still some touring, but in his last year, he ran a fruit stand and later worked fifteen hours a day as janitor in a pool hall.

On Friday, 8 April 1938, Joseph 4 King' Oliver died of cerebral haemorrhage. His sister spent her rent money to have his body brought to New York. On 12th April Louis Armstrong, Clarence Williams and a loyal group of musician friends saw him buried at Woodlawn Cemetery, the Bronx, New York. There was no headstone on his grave. "

I don't know where the idea that any of the musicians listed in the article attended the funeral came from. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.83.178.144 (talk) 02:33, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

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Date of birth edits

In August 2016 there were a series of edits that changed Oliver's birthday as follows:

• from 11 May 1885 to 17 December 1881
• from 17 to 19 December 1881
• from 19 December 1881 to 19 December 1885
• back to 19 December 1881, where it's remained ever since.

None of these edits was sourced. How can we know whether any of these edits was correct, or whether the original date of 11 May 1885 should be reinstated? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 05:25, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Citation needed

I’ve added the missing citations Wis2fan (talk) 16:11, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

You cannot used wikipedia as a reference. I've replaced your link to the Dutch wikipedia with one to the publisher of a new edition of that book/manual, which is also not ideal, but I haven't found any proper bibliographical reference. --Wrongfilter (talk) 16:22, 20 April 2024 (UTC)