Talk:Élie Metchnikoff

Date of Birth

According to NobelPrize.org the date of birth is 16 may. Recources from the article also state the date of birth at may 16. How valid is 15 of may, especially 03 may old style? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.45.16.198 (talk) 12:30, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

• Good point. Why no one paid attention to this misinformation (I am aware of some internet sources stating 15, though). In fact both his dates of birth and death are 16 according the most reliable biographies. The old style date is also supported by his biographies. I have rectified them. Chhandama (talk) 07:48, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

• The different dates result from confusion in converting from the Old to the New Style. Many sources, including Metchnikoff himself in his Nobel autobiography(!), mistakenly added 13 days to May 3, his Old-Style birthday, as was the convention in the 20th century. But in the 19th century, only 12 days should have been added. See the entry for {{{1}}} [O.S. {{{3}}}] 17:00 27 December 2017 lubav77Lubav77 (talk) 15:11, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

• @Lubav77: You still need to provide reliable sources giving those dates before the article can be changed. A reliable source saying why the Nobel Foundation bio is wrong would also be handy, since that would normally be treated as a very authoritative source. Under no circumstances can other Wikipedia articles be used as references. In any case, I note that the date of his death (which you also attempted to change) is in the date range that requires 13 days to be added. SpinningSpark 15:50, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

• @Spinningspark: Metchnikoff's mistake about his own date of birth is discussed in a commentary to his autobiography by a Russian historian of science. The original is in Russian, here's the translation of the full reference: R.I. Belkin, "Commentary on Autobiographical Materials," p. 434, in I. I. Mechnikov, Academic Collection of Works, vol. 16. Moscow: Meditsina, 1964. I understand that the Wikipedia article on the Old Style cannot be used as a reference, but it provides a conversion table from another source. As for Metchnikoff's date of death, it has nothing to do with Old Style, which is relevant only for pre-revolutionary Russia. He died in France. I have a copy of his death certificate in French, which states his death as July 15. The original is in an archive in Moscow, here's the full reference: "Extrait des minutes des Actes de deces de la Mairie du Quinzieme Arrondissement de Paris," Archive of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Metchnikoff Fund, 584-2-208. Can you help me correct the entry with these two references? I'm new to Wikipedia and couldn't figure out how the references work. There's so much confusion about Metchnikoff's birth and death dates on the Web, it would be nice to finally get them straight. Thank you. 27 December 2015 lubav77Lubav77 (talk) 16:52, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

• @Lubav77: Ok, that sounds good. Sorry for giving you a hard time earlier. See Help:Referencing for beginners for how to go about referencing, but it is more important to get the reference in the article in some form than to format them perfectly. That can always be cleaned up afterwards. Don't use birth and death certificates as references, these are primary sources, we prefer reliable secondary sources. Citing one's own book is usually looked on as something dodgy here (can be seen as promotion or conflict of interest), but in this case it seems you are acting in Wikipedia's best interest so it should be ok. You can also use the referencing system to add an explanatory footnote explaining the confusion over the dates. SpinningSpark 17:53, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

• @Spinningspark: Thanks, I've added references and explanatory footnotes. Note that the Russian, French and German entries list the birth and death dates correctly, probably because they didn't use the Nobel site as a reference. I also want to ask you about adding my book in Further Reading. I'd added it earlier because I didn't realize this was against the conflict of interest policy. On the other hand, this is a legitimate item for Further Reading. What does one do about that? Should I ask a friend to post it?

• No, you shouldn't ask a friend, that is just as conflicted as doing it yourself. You should make a suggestion on this talk page. There is a template, {{request edit}}, that will attract an editor to service the request. However, they may not be willing if they have not actually read the book. It sounds like a good idea to add it, but I hesitate to do it myself for that reason. SpinningSpark 23:53, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

• @Spinningspark: OK. I didn't see your response earlier because I never received a notification about it. I've now submitted the book through the template, thanks for suggesting this. 2 January 2016 lubav77Lubav77 (talk) 16:47, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

• @Spinningspark: I've finally convinced the official Nobel website to correct Metchnikoff's dates of birth and death, they are now May 15 and July 15! :-))) --Lubav77 (talk) 19:22, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Untitled

• Elie Metchnikoff (1845-1916), received Nobel Prize in Physiology and Medicine in 1908 (jointly with Paul Ehrlich). His most notable contribution to discoveries about the immune response was his recognition of the phenomenon called phagocytosis - cells called phagocytes destroy invading organisms such as bacteria, the first line of defence against acute infection.

Alternate Spelling

He is also known as "Elie Metchnikoff" (in Encyclopedia Britannica, and Microbe Hunters, for example) Souldn't this be noted? Kaplanoah (talk) 18:54, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

A redirect from Elie Metchnikoff has been established already. Still, anyone only knowing the name Ilya Ilyich Mechnokov may find it helpful to have a note about alternate spellings (for further external research, etc.) Here's what I mean. If someone comes to do research on Wikipedia, they will have no trouble finding this article regardless of the name they used (Ilya or Elie). However, if they only know the name Ilya, they will not come across Elie and will therefore not have the resources to do research (using Elie) outside Wikipedia. Kaplanoah (talk) 22:15, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

It's instructive to see the range of redirects this article glories in:

• I. I. Mechnikov
• Ilya Mechnikov
• Metchnikoff
• Eli Metchnikoff
• Elias Metchnikoff
• Elie Metchnikoff
• Élie Metchnikoff
• Metchnikoff, Elie
• Metchnikoff, Élie
• Ilya Metchnikoff
• Ilya Ilyich Metchnikoff
• Elie Metschnikoff
• Ilja Iljitsch Metschnikow.

Is any of them better than what we have at the moment? Hmm, let’s see.

• If he had spent his whole life in Russia, I’d go for Ilya Mechnikov.

• This is the current title minus the patronymic. There's no need for a patronymic, as English speakers rarely use them (Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky being one of the rare exceptions; we refer to his colleagues Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov, Sergei Rachmaninoff, Alexander Glazunov, Mily Balakirev, Alexander Scriabin etc without patronymics. The same should apply to Mechnikov).

• But he spent the last 28 years of his life in Paris, where he was known as Élie Metchnikoff, and that’s how his name mostly appears in the West (not always with the acute on the É, though).

• Either of these is preferable to the current title (accuracy of romanisation notwithstanding).

• I would strongly support a move to Élie Metchnikoff. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 11:33, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

No objections? Please see Requested Move below, then. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 20:53, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

I think his name better known as Ilya Mechnikov - see Nobel laureates. Google search: "Ilya Mechnikov" - about 30,500 results "Élie Mechnikov" - about 501 results. --IlyaMart (talk) 20:19, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Commercial interest at work?

When I read the passage "Mechnikov also developed a theory that aging is caused by toxic bacteria in the gut and that lactic acid could prolong life. Based on his theory, he drank sour milk every day. He died in 1916 at 71 years of age (well above the average life expectancy of the general population at the time and a slightly more than other notable scientists of his time)", I thought 'what an odd detail to spend so many words on'. When, afterwards, the Yakult brand popped up, I understood.

The effects claimed by Yakult and other probiotics on the immune system and longevity are largely unproven, which does not keep it from being huge business, sustained by vague claims in the absence of hard scientific evidence.

The above is one. Let's face it: in the 19th century, the wealthy and educated lived longer, and it is higly unlikely that lactic acid consumption has anything to do with that. Mechnikov's natural life was probably not significantly longer than that of fellow scientists of his time, and well within statistical error margins--"probably", since to my knowledge no-one has ever bothered to draw up age statistics among notable 18th-century scientists.

I'll bet anyone ten to one that this tidbit of information, for which of course no source is quoted, was sneaked into this article by Yakult itself.

I say get rid of it, and at least remove the suggestion that his age had anything to do with his probiotics use until there is reliable scientific data to back up this claim. Wikipedia is not here to advertise Yakult.

Agree?--Roger Pilgham (talk) 12:08, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, Totally agree. The health claims of probiotics are still discussed ; looks like it was edited by someone from Yakult--Gregopim (talk) 12:27, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

Atheism

Reading H.G. Wells's God, the Invisible King, he makes reference to Mechnikov's (Metchnikoff in Wells) views on atheism expressed in The Nature of Man, something which this article does not appear to address. As atheism appears, at least from Wells, to have been a major aspect of The Nature of Man and there is no separate article on this work the present time, I think it would be prudent to add something on the matter. Maybe somebody who is more knowledgeable on Mechnikov could make this inclusion?

Passercatulli (talk) 01:57, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Coined term gerontology

http://books.google.com/books?id=7qpHuXKsaC0C&pg=PA460&lpg=PA460&dq=Metchnikoff%2Bgerontology&source=bl&ots=FPPaWxiiA5&sig=V1mQlGIhrxtJrg8BIhzRS1rzl_0&hl=en&ei=nkP0Su_BBIXg8QbC2qjzCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CCYQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Metchnikoff%2Bgerontology&f=false

The man who first used the term gerontology, ...Ryoung122 15:43, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved per request. - GTBacchus^(talk) 15:30, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

---

Ilya Ilyich Mechnikov → Élie Metchnikoff — This was the spelling he used in the West, and is how he's usually referenced. See more details at Alternate Spelling above, where this page move was first mooted. Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 20:53, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Changes by 193.169.80.41 (talk · contribs)

193.169.80.41 (talk · contribs) is edit warring on this page. He is citing his changes in his edit summary, instead of in the article body, and his reference is a picture of a Russian-language book. I am up to 3 reverts myself on this article today, just wanted to inform other editors as to what is going on. To 193.169.80.41 (talk · contribs): Please use inline citations for your edits, and make sure you cite a verifiable, reliable source for your contrubution. —Josh3580_talk/hist 21:12, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Nationality

It seems that Metchnikoff had also the French nationality Is it correct ? Should it be mentioned here ? --Gregopim (talk) 12:31, 25 November 2015 (UTC) Metchnikoff never took on a French nationality. His wife Olga did become a French national, but long after his death. 27 December 2025, Lubav77Lubav77 (talk) 20:52, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Date of Death

There is also confusion about Metchnikoff's date of death. The reason is that in his biography, his wife Olga is unclear about dates when she writes about his death, autopsy and cremation. I have just completed Metchnikoff's biography, the result of ten years of research, and have a copy of his death certificate from La Marie du Quinzieme Arrondissement de Paris. It states his date of death as 5:30 pm, July 15, 1916. 27 December 2015 lubav77Lubav77 (talk) 15:43, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Further Reading

Please add my new biography of Metchnikoff to Further Reading: Vikhanski, Luba (2016). Immunity: How Elie Metchnikoff Changed the Course of Modern Medicine. Chicago Review Press. ISBN: 978-1613731109. A new biography, using previously inaccessible archival material.

• @Spinningspark:My book has just been (positively) reviewed by Kirkus Reviews, a trade magazine of the publishing industry. Perhaps this can give you confidence to post it? Here's the link: www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/luba-vikhanski/immunity-how-elie/ Thanks. 13 January 2016 lubav77Lubav77 (talk) 07:01, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

External links

Photos from places in which Metchnikoff lived and worked — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lubav77 (talk • contribs) 18:42, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Russian Pharmaceutical Company of same name

I ran across a news article about a Russian vaccine manufacture called "Metchnikoff". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.78.56.88 (talk) 06:34, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Élie Metchnikoff. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160206184829/http://www.pasteur.fr/infosci/biblio/ressources/histoire/metchnikoff.php to http://www.pasteur.fr/infosci/biblio/ressources/histoire/metchnikoff.php

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 23:10, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Racism

Per one of the sources already cited in the article, Metchnikoff did anthropological work in the Kalmuk stepps and concluded that "[the] development of Mongol natives was arrested in comparison with that of the Caucasian race." Including this in the article. 2600:1700:A419:8030:400D:9067:2D36:A965 (talk) 01:02, 28 December 2022 (UTC)