Talk:Homosexuality and Pentecostalism

Untitled

Barring further information being located regarding the APCI or Covenant Network, I'm done with this page. All links have been updated and verified. Valis55 (talk) 02:55, 31 October 2014 (UTC) I and BroWCarey are going to try to bring this page up to date. If someone has information they feel should be included or issues they wish to discuss, please let us know. Valis55 (talk) 01:41, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

I believe the subject matter to be noteworthy. I will edit the article according to the recommendations made. BroWCarey (talk) 18:58, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

There's a difference between noteworthy and notable as Wikipedia defines it. --Orange Mike | Talk 19:52, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Although I am a Gay Apostolic Pentecostal, and have been involved since the beginning, I have endeavored to present our history and beliefs in an unbiased fashion. I have included references from Apostolic churches with opposing viewpoints, as well as links to more than one Gay Apostolic organization. (I am not affiliated with all of them; only one.)BroWCarey (talk) 19:44, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Orange Mike, Notable was the word I was looking for. The article describes something that is historical and notable in terms of church history, and is still considered to be controversial.BroWCarey (talk) 20:02, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I did remove my name from the article. BroWCarey (talk) 20:05, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I've made substantial edits to the page in an effort to present the subject according to NPOV. I've added more sources, tweaked the layout and added more internal links. And hopefully, it sounds less like an advertisement and more like an encyclopedic entry now! BroWCarey (talk) 22:10, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't see the neutrality concerns discussed here, nor do I see (in a cursory review) blatant problems in the article, so I'm removing the remaining tag.--SPhilbrickT 12:33, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you!BroWCarey (talk) 13:39, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

CPCI

I removed this link for two reasons: First, this is not a functional church denomination, but mainly a website with many links. Second, many of those links are to Apostolic churches/organizations that are NOT LGBT affirming. While the designer of the CPCI site may be affirming, the site contains links that are not, and thus is not appropriate to link to this article.BroWCarey (talk) 02:42, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

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Thoughts on the page in its current state

Hello everyone! I have a few concerns over the state of the article and the purpose of its existence in its current form, and so I have a suggestion to put forward.

First, it seems to me (though I may be wrong) that there is really no analogous page on Wikipedia for a set of churches/organizations within a specific denomination to have their own page in this way on the topic of sexuality, rather than a page detailing all of the views (whether in opposition to, affirming of, or neutral on the topic of sexuality) within the denomination on this topic. For example, within Template:Christianity and LGBTQ topics, there is a section on Denominational positions that has pages like Presbyterianism and homosexuality, Homosexuality and Lutheranism, Homosexuality and Baptist churches, etc., but I have not seen any page about, for example, Affirming Baptist Churches. Secondly, the page strangely includes Trinitarian Pentecostals, which are definitionally not Oneness Pentecostals. Finally, the name for the page seems both arbitrary and inaccurate. The Oneness Pentecostal page was renamed in favor of Oneness Pentecostalism over Apostolic Pentecostalism several years ago to align with the scholarly naming and to maintain WP:NPOV; why should this not apply to this page as well, as it is aligned with the same movement but differing in only one point of theology? I don't see any consistent naming convention from the sources either, so the page naming seems arbitrary.

It seems to me that the most logical thing to do would be to create a page such as Pentecostalism and Homosexuality or Homosexuality and Pentecostalism and merge the contents of this page into the new page to better represent all the positions taken by Pentecostal organizations (both Oneness and Trinitarian), not limited to just those affirming. What do you think of this? For a movement as large as Pentecostalism, it probably is overdue for a page such as this to exist, and it would solve the issues I've raised with the Affirming Apostolic Pentecostal churches page. Let me know your thoughts!

JParksT2023 (talk) 21:41, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

I agree with JParks above. This page is out of step with other similar pages in terms of its title, and its content. We don't write about "affirming" churches specifically, we look at how a denomination deals with an issue. Also there is extraneous material that is nothing to do with Oneness Pentecostalism. I propose 1) renaming this page "Homosexuality and Pentecostalism" 2) removing extraneous material 3) expanding to include all Pentecostalism. This will turn this page into a very small page (relative to the size of the subject) which can be expanded on later. Let's give this a few days for other input, and then we can Be Bold and start the process. DJ Clayworth (talk) 03:49, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I agree with both @JParksT2023 and @DJ Clayworth. This should be turned into a "Homosexuality and Pentecostalism" page for the reasons state above. Ltwin (talk) 21:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@Ltwin and @DJ Clayworth, and anyone else who is interested in being involved: considering the support for the proposal, I took it upon myself to start working on what the Homosexuality and Pentecostalism page will look like in my user sandbox. Feel free to look it over and/or edit it further! Here's a summary of the changes:

• Added an introduction similar to Homosexuality and Lutheranism
• Moved the original introduction (essentially untouched) to the History section
• Created a new section, "Views by denomination", and listed denominations with clear positions on the topic—at least the ones that I could find—by their branch: Holiness or Finished Work (further separated into Oneness and Trinitarian), sorted alphabetically and including citations.
• Removed most of the information on the NGPA, ARM, AIM (explained below)
• Removed the "Theology" section (unnecessary and already implied)
• Merged the essential FRPIM information into the Reconciling Pentecostals International's denominal position under "Views by denomination"
• Merged the essential GAAAP information into the New Journey Ministries' denominal position under "Views by denomination"
• Merged the essential APCI information into the Affirming Pentecostal Church International's denominal position under "Views by denomination"
• Merged the "Trinitarian Pentecostal churches" section into the Covenant Network's denominal position under "Views by denomination"
• Retained the "Controversy" section at the bottom of the article untouched

In regards to the NGPA, ARM, and AIM sections in the current article, I feel that they are interesting history for New Journey Ministries organization (as they all were merged into the organization), but I feel that the information is unnecessary for the new article and is not relevant enough to Pentecostalism's historical relationship with homosexuality to be featured in the "History" section, as it's only the history of one organization. I suggest that the information be retained by being moved into the New Journey Ministries' article entirely, emphasizing it as part of the organization's history.

Let me know what you think about these changes, and feel free to edit away! Thank you all for your support and help! JParksT2023 (talk) 17:18, 9 October 2024 (UTC)