Talk:Killing of Muammar Gaddafi

Sodomized?

It has been reported that he was sodomized before being killed. If anyone can find confirmation of this, it should be added. It is a real pain in the butt to find sources at this time. Pun intended. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.9.101.150 (talk) 20:49, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

LOL. Yeah I read something like that on Social networks. They said that rebels were pushing him around by shoving their middle fingers in his behind. I don't think that actually happened and I think that it's a cheap move from some people to make his death sound more tragic and painful. I'm looking into this story (But I don't think it actually happened). TKhaldi (talk) 19:27, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

There is (graphic) video of a rebel fighter apparently trying to insert a knife or sharp stick into his anus. Not clear if he was actually penetrated or how long it went on for. Warning: graphic -Kudzu1 (talk) 19:35, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

It's not been reported by reliable sources as far as I know - I removed an unreliably sourced claim from the article for that reason. Prioryman (talk) 20:07, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

I've seen that video yesterday. Not sure if they only were poking him in the rear with it or did they insert it in. (In Arabic they call it 'Ba'es', lit. Fingering) meaning shoving/rubbing things against the anus not for a sexual purpose but as a form of abuse or humiliation. Nevertheless once anyone here found a reliable source concerning the issue we'll post it. TKhaldi (talk) 04:05, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

This was one of the lead reports on this evening's Channel 4 News (an ITN programme), which I'm sure constitutes a reliable source. They showed a piece of the footage but stopped short of the offending scene. The reporter, Krishnan Guru-Murthy, said that he had watched the full footage and that it seemed to show Gaddafi being, quote, "sexually assaulted". The full programme is available to watch on 4OD for the next day: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/channel-4-news/4od Catiline63 (talk) 21:34, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

I do think it merits inclusion at this point. It's a lot easier to believe its authenticity than, say, that video on Russia Today of a guy claiming to be a Libyan fighter (with an unusually Turkic name) saying, "Yeah, it was me, I shot Gaddafi, and here's this shirt he had with him to prove it!" -Kudzu1 (talk) 22:17, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

I did spot a video of Gaddafi being frog-marched and while during that someone gave him a poke to the rear using a small stick. There seemed to be no penetration of the clothing and I would not call it sodomy - it's closer to a kancho. That part of the abuse seemed to last less than a second. If Gaddafi noticed then there was no obvious reaction but by then people had been working over him for a while. --Marc Kupper|talk 01:22, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

The Channel 4 News report seems to allude to a different incident. For those unable to access the link provided, Krishnan Guru-Murthy's commentary on the footage is: "We're going to freeze the video... because it's frankly not the kind of thing we would show on television, especially at this time of night... He appears to sexually assault Gaddafi with what looks like a metal pipe. It looks absolutely deliberate and it clearly causes injury". Catiline63 (talk) 02:17, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Here is another link: [1]. I think you guys are talking about the same incident. I was surprised that this is not mentioned in many places covering the topic. What I see is someone poking some object into someones ass through his trousers, and I see blood around the hole in the trousers. I understand though that due to the low quality of the images, not everybody agrees on what is actually seen. Nevertheless, in my view the footage necessitates this article to at least mention that some footage "seem" (or something like this) to show that gadaffi was subjected to some kind of torture by his capturers. --Vunzmstr (talk) 16:25, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Actually it IS the one we're talking about. I didn't see blood and maybe that what you thought as blood may be the man's hands' shadow over the brown trousers. In means of torture, he was beaten over the head with a pistol handle and he was fed plenty of punches and kicks. I agree with Marc Kupper that the one who did this to Gaddafi didn't do it for long before the others joined the party. TKhaldi (talk) 21:23, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, maybe what you thought as the man's shadow over brown trousers is actually blood?;-) You maybe agree with Marc Kupper, but unless one of you was actually there when it happened this doesn't mean that much. We all rather wish it did not happen, but to me it is quite clear that the upcoming investigations will reveal that Khadaffi was tortured and executed by his captors. Anyway, I actually don't really care a lot about this subject so I will not involve myself any longer. He had it coming, and that is how these things go. It is inconvenient though for the new Libyan regime PR-wise I guess, at least internationally. --Vunzmstr (talk) 11:55, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Has anyone seen the BBC's The World's article on Gaddafi being sodomized? There are pictures and it does seem to be a reliable source. Even though this is graphic and hard to stomach it is important for the world and Americans to realize how the US government and its military conduct foreign policy. This is my first post so if I am doing it wrong I am sorry. Here is the link. https://www.pri.org/stories/2011-10-24/gaddafi-sodomized-video-shows-abuse-frame-frame-graphic — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.79.253.184 (talk) 03:05, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

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Should have killed the whole family too especially the children ~Φ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.82.133.161 (talk) 23:55, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

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Requested move 18 September 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved.

There is a clear consensus to move per WP:DEATHS. The move is supported by 4 editors including the proposer.

The only opposition is from 力, who states a procedural opposition on the basis that the article is in bad shape. There is no procedural rule preventing an article from being moved because it is badly written; on the contrary, we move badly written articles every day. I will treat this as being a weak substantive opposition on the basis that 力 is unpersuaded that the RSs agree as to the manner of death. My own view is that the article suffers from an overreliance on WP:PRIMARYNEWS sources, which reflect uncertainty during the period immediately following Gaddafi's killing. It seems likely that by now there will exist scholarly sources who have assessed the evidence in the round, and it would be preferable to rely on those. However, that is an aside: even if Gaddafi was killed in battle, he was still killed. WP:DEATHS makes no distinction for deaths in battle. This case differs from the superficially similar RM at Death of Benito Mussolini, because a few sources indicate that Mussolini was executed by due process of law and WP:DEATHS does indicate a distinction in that case.

Regardless of all that, based on the !votes and policy arguments below, there is a clear consensus to move.(non-admin closure) Havelock Jones (talk) 12:49, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

---

Death of Muammar Gaddafi → Killing of Muammar Gaddafi – The form "Death of..." is most intuitively applied to the main title headers of articles detailing circumstances surrounding non-violent demise — Death of Ludwig van Beethoven, Death of Edgar Allan Poe, Death of Vladimir Lenin, Death of Marilyn Monroe, Death of Elvis Presley, Death of Michael Jackson, Death of Prince, etc. However, the still-active nomination Death of Marvin Gaye → Killing of Marvin Gaye at Death of Marvin Gaye#Requested move 11 September 2021 is an example of the view that articles focusing upon violent deaths should indicate it within their headers. Another header concurrently selected for such obvious renaming is Death of Benito Mussolini → Killing of Benito Mussolini at Death of Benito Mussolini#Requested move 18 September 2021. Although the form "Assassination of..." may be suggested for both of these cases, it would seem that "Assassination of..." is more applicable to cases such as Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand or Assassination of Anwar Sadat, rather than to the circumstances of Gaddafi or Mussolini. Another issue for discussion may posit that, while the form "Execution of..." is applicable within the header of the article Execution of Saddam Hussein, it is not applicable to the circumstances of these two cases. —. Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 19:54, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

• Support per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (violence and deaths). Gaddafi was killed, he did not simply passively die, and the title should reflect that. nableezy - 19:44, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nableezy. 143.239.9.5 (talk) 12:33, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
• Procedural oppose the article is in such bad shape that the exact nature of his death is not clear to me. There is talk of "investigations" but no mention of the results; the timeline describes many rumors but nothing is definitive. Until it is sufficiently clear that he did not die in battle, this should stay at "Death". If/when the article content has sourced content demonstrating he was captured and summarily killed, I will support this proposal. User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 17:12, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

He was caught in a drainage pipe, shot, sodomized with a bayonet, shot again, and then died of his wounds. Here's your source. nableezy - 18:00, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

• Support It was a planned murder that violated international law. "Killing" at least echoes the acknowledgement of the event. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 10:17, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Infobox military box?

Since this article discusses the event that led to a death of person rather than a battle or an engagement, should the Infobox campaign box be removed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.130.15.4 (talk) 19:52, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

I removed it accordingly. It's not a battle. The article is just about the events surrounding Gaddafi's killing. Thepharoah17 (talk) 11:02, 6 February 2023 (UTC)