Talk:Fortress (cancelled video game)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Juhachi (talk · contribs) 00:17, 7 March 2013 (UTC) GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   Needs some copyediting; see below.

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. Has an appropriate reference section:

   B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:

   Reference 15 is an issue; see below.

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   Is there any information on its gameplay and/or plot?

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   Both images need improved fair-use rationales; specifically, a FUR template should be used for both.Y

   B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Article title

• First, I'd like to bring up the disambiguation. Is it common to use the publisher, in this case Square Enix, to disambiguate in these circumstances? Reading the article, it seems SE only had a minor part in the project, seeing as it was cancelled and never even released by SE, so wouldn't it make more sense to disambiguate with (GRIN) instead? Which kind of brings me to my next point: GRIN (company) vs. Grin (company). I know this is kind of beside the point in regard to this review, but if the article title was changed to Fortress (GRIN), I think it would be better to deal with the fact that GRIN should be stylized as Grin on Wikipedia per WP:ALLCAPS. If Bungie isn't located at BUNGiE, then there's no reason to have Grin at GRIN.

Lead

• codename --> Should be code name according to its articleY
• link video gameY
• Ulf Andersson devised --> Director Ulf Andersson devisedY
• a spinoff --> a spin-off; and remove the link to spin-off in DevelopmentY
• "The game was then reconceived in the recurring Final Fantasy world of Ivalice, and included a judge character and concept art with the stylistic motifs and character designs of Final Fantasy XII, as well as other elements such as chocobos and other recurring creatures from the Final Fantasy series." This is a run-on. Try: GRIN reconceived the game in the recurring Final Fantasy world of Ivalice, and included elements of Final Fantasy XII such as stylistic motifs and character designs; additional elements included chocobos and other recurring creatures from the Final Fantasy series.Y
• included a judge character --> Does this need to specifically be stated? It's kind of confusing, and could just as easily be removed.Y
• the game's Nordic art style -- I'm having trouble understanding what you mean by Nordic. Is it the way the Nordic countries appear geographically? Does it have to do with Nordic folklore or Nordic mythology? Please clarify, at least with a proper wikilink.Y
• arts portfolio's --> art portfoliosY
• link tech demo, and remove the link in AftermathY
• is thought to --> was thought toY
• but it was also --> but this was alsoY

Development

• "...led by Ulf Andersson" --> "...led by Andersson" (His full name has already been introduced, so Ulf should be removed.)Y
• "...and lead character artist Björn Albihn" --> "...and Albihn." (You already said he was the lead character artist two sentences ago, and similar to above, Björn should be removed.)Y
• "...for the Japanese company Capcom" -- Why do you only refer to Capcom as a Japanese company, but don't for Square Enix? Either do it for both or neither for consistency.Y
• "...appears to have been the central location" --> This seems pretty vague. Is it or isn't it? Who's making the claim that it was the central location, if anyone?
• "...sea-monster imagery" --> "...sea monster imagery"Y
• "Planned boss battles included fighting a gargantuan version of the Final Fantasy monster Malboro, by climbing atop it using seaweeds on its back in order to drop bombs in the creature's weak spots." --> A little too much detail; do we need to know how to defeat the boss? This seems more like a gameguide to me.Y
• "...divided in at least" --> ...divided into at leastY

Cancellation

• $12 million --> US$12 millionY
• "...production of Fortress, in successive waves" --> drop the commaY
• "...with the project milestones" --> "with the project's milestones"Y
• "GRIN closed all their offices" --> GRIN closed all of their officesY
• link StockholmY
• "almost a criminal behavior" by Bo Andersson --> ...by Andersson (Bo Andersson was mentioned earlier this paragraph, so it's unnecessary to use his first name again. Also, if we were talking about Ulf, we would have written "by Ulf Andersson", so there should be no confusion to the reader about which Andersson it is.)Y
• ..."restart their work in order to bring the game's art style" --> "restart their work to bring the game's art style"Y
• "GRIN sent Square Enix a picture of one of their own games, Final Fantasy XII" -- This sentence is confusing. I looked in the reference and now I understand, but this sentence has to be rewritten. In fact, this is just one long run-on sentence, and you're misquoting the reference at the end; if you're going to change the quotation, don't use quotes. Try something like: GRIN attempted to change the style to fit more with traditional Final Fantasy game, but still did not receive any positive feedback. In response, GRIN sent Square Enix an image of one of the latter's own games, Final Fantasy XII, and were told that it does not look like a game in Final Fantasy's style.Y
• "The founders considered suing, but had run out of money, and after six months of development were forced to stop development on all projects and declare bankruptcy due to Sweden's severe laws against operating businesses under a debt load." -- Another run-on. Try: The founders considered suing, but had run out of money, leading them to stop production on the project after six months of work. Furthermore, GRIN ceased production on all of their other projects and declared bankruptcy due to Sweden's severe laws against operating businesses under a debt load.Y
• "and mentioning in a farewell note their "unreleased masterpiece that [they] weren't allowed to finish"." This needs to clarify that it's talking about a different game, since I almost thought it referred to Fortress itself before looking at the reference. In fact, why even mention this? Does it have any significance in relation to Fortress?Y
• whereas Bo Andersson claimed --> whereas Andersson claimedY

Aftermath

• leaked on the Internet --> leaked onto the InternetY
• at E3 2011 --> at the 2011 Electronic Entertainment ExpoY
• Motomu Toriyama stated --> Motomu Toriyama of Square Enix statedY
• posted a track of music" --> posted a music trackY

References

• I'm concerned about reference 15, [1], which is a forum post. I realize that this is probably Holmsten, but it could just as easily be someone pretending to be him. In short, there's no way to verify it's him, so I believe this reference should be removed.Y

Images

• Aside from the FUR concerns I noted above, the caption from the second image should be improved. Is there another way to describe them instead of "placeholder" characters? In any case, the comma between duel and from should be removed.Y

--十八 00:18, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Yeah the reference issue is really a shame, I will hunt around a bit to see if I can get a replacement. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 06:01, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Also could you clarify two points you made; one, you want more gameplay, second, you wanted me to cut the gameplay info, which is probably all that we have in terms of gameplay... could I rephrase it instead? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 06:05, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

I see your point. Yeah, rephrase that bit about the boss fight. Something like "Planned boss battles included fighting a gargantuan version of the Final Fantasy monster Malboro, where the player would use the seaweed on its back to climb on top of it and drop bombs in the creature's weak spots."--十八 06:15, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! That's a lot better. I reread the article about the fairwell letter, and it does seem to be referring to the unnamed unfinished project everyone thinks is Final Fantasy Fortress. Could you take another look and see what you think? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 06:34, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Joystiq says that the masterpiece was the Fortress project. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 07:07, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

OMG Look what I found, a four page article in Play UK Magazine about this topic! I will have to climb through this and see what we can source. the motherload Judgesurreal777 (talk) 07:11, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

(←) Okay, but now there are some more things:

Infobox

• Change action game to action RPG

Development

• The art style of the game was supposed to be realist and Skyrim-like, according to Level designer at Grin Stockholm, Guillaumue Mraz. --> The art style of the game was supposed to be realistic and similar to The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim according to Guillaumue Mraz, a level designer at Grin. (Is that what you meant by "Level designer"? And is Grin Stockholm any different from Grin, which was in Stockholm?)
• Delink action RPG in this section, as it's already linked in the lead and infobox.

Cancellation

• "Further, Grin ceased" --> Furthermore, Grin ceased
• 3D artist Magnus Ihrefors stated that he had only found out about the games cancellation in August, but it was like a "punch in the belly; this was our last chance to get on track again". --> Magnus Ihrefors, one of the 3D artists who worked on the project, stated that he had only found out about the game's cancellation in August, but it was like a "punch in the belly; this was our last chance to get on track again."
• and mentioning in a farewell note their "unreleased masterpiece that [they] weren't allowed to finish". --> and in a farewell note referred to Fortress as an "unreleased masterpiece that [they] weren't allowed to finish." (Punctuation goes inside the quotes when quoting a source.)
• ignored Square Enixs requests --> ignored Square Enix's requests
• the franchise was too importance to overlook --> the Final Fantasy franchise was too important to overlook

• • So what do you think? The article is a quantum leap beyond where it was, with much better writing and a lucky find relating to gameplay, story, and grin's inner workings. Is there anything else? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 09:02, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
    • I believe that is it. Great work on this little article. If you would like to take it further to FA, I would recommend a full copyedit, since while the prose is "reasonably well written", I am by no means an expert when it comes to copyediting.--十八 09:30, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
      • Thanks a ton for the help, and the thorough review! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 09:32, 7 March 2013 (UTC)