Talk:Dershowitz–Finkelstein affair

Introduction

Help! The introduction is swallowing the article! (unsigned comment by User:ragout)

Other accusations and replies

Finkelstein has claimed that Dershowitz accused Walt & Mearsheimer of the same thing he was accusing Dershowitz of. I added that in under this section. Could probably be phrased better and maybe moved to an appropriate section.

'Tewfik' removed this, no explanation given, no discussion. Assuming good faith I reinserted the paragraph given that it has immediate relevancy to a section on "Other accusations". Please do follow due process and discuss on talk before removing again.

Questionable material

The following material needs work or deletion; I've moved it to talk page. It is not neutral point of view. It just repeats Finkelstein's arguments from his own personal website.

Noam Chomsky defends Norman Finkelstein

Professor Noam Chomsky defended Norman Finkelstein on the April 17 2007 broadcast of Democracy Now!

Improper synthesis

I removed a section that is nearly identical to what the section in No Original Research: Synthesis of published material serving to advance a position [WP:SYN] says 'NOT' to do.

Section removed: "If Dershowitz's claim that he always consulted the original sources is false, this would be contrary to the practice recommended in the Chicago Manual of Style as well as Harvard's student writing manual, but neither of these sources calls such presentation "plagiarism.""

What [WP:SYN] says not to do: "If Jones's claim that he consulted the original sources is false, this would be contrary to the practice recommended in the Chicago Manual of Style, which requires citation of the source actually consulted. The Chicago Manual of Style does not call violating this rule "plagiarism." Instead, plagiarism is defined as using a source's information, ideas, words, or structure without citing them."

This entire paragraph is original research, because it expresses the editor's opinion that, given the Chicago Manual of Style's definition of plagiarism, Jones did not commit it. To make the paragraph consistent with this policy, a reliable source is needed that specifically comments on the Smith and Jones dispute and makes the same point about the Chicago Manual of Style and plagiarism. In other words, that precise analysis must have been published by a reliable source in relation to the topic before it can be published in Wikipedia.

Professor Stockton

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/24/1730205

I can't find any reference to the Professor nor his work in the text of the debate, nor did I hear any reference to it or him while watching the video of the discussion. Is the supposed citation of his work in the broadcast erroneous, or did I simply somehow miss the reference?

Edit request on 8 May 2024

In the "Additional points of dispute" section it needs to be added that Dershowitz falsely claimed, multiple times (most recently in November 2023), that Finkelstein's mother was a Nazi collaborator ("Kapo") during her time in the concentration camp. Aspidistrastillflying (talk) 13:52, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 03:01, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Here is another article from The Jerusalem Post mentioning the fact that Dershowitz accused Finkelstein's mother to be a Nazi collaborator: https://www.jpost.com/arts-and-culture/books/his-own-worst-enemy

Here is a Times Higher Education article about the same thing: "Finkelstein says he has asked Harvard to remove a statement on Dershowitz's Harvard website in which he says that Finkelstein suspects his mother was a " Kapo " - a Nazi collaborator. Dershowitz says he is merely citing Finkelstein. Finkelstein denies he has ever suggested his late mother, who was in a Nazi concentration camp, was a collaborator and adds that, if she could, she would "rise up out of the grave and throttle Dershowitz".

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/features/the-good-jewish-boys-go-into-battle/200412.article

In article from The Chicago Reader, Dershowitz is quoted as saying: Finkelstein should be ashamed of the way he uses his parents to advance those views. “He charges his own mother with being a Nazi collaborator,” he says. “Now what could be lower than that?”

https://issues.chicagoreader.com/pdf/050826/050826_cover.pdf

In his book "Defending Israel", Dershowitz again repeats the baseless claim that Finkelstein's mother was a Nazi collaborator.

https://www.currentaffairs.org/news/2019/09/do-not-listen-to-israels-lawyer

Finally, in the interview linked in my previous note, you can listen to Dershowitz himself repeat the claim (at minute 48:17)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0_ysr6S540

Happy to provide more sources if needed Aspidistrastillflying (talk) 14:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 May 2024

Under "Support for Dershowitz" subsection, request to change: ""In the wake of a number of similar complaints against Dershowitz and two of his Harvard Law School colleagues Laurence Tribe and Charles Ogletree, former Harvard President Derek Bok conducted an investigation—the details of which were not made public—that... vindicated Dershowitz""

to

""In the wake of a number of similar complaints against Dershowitz and two of his Harvard Law School colleagues Laurence Tribe and Charles Ogletree, former Harvard President Derek Bok conducted an investigation—the details of which were not made public—that predictably vindicated Dershowitz"" Lucasballestin (talk) 12:44, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

 Not done. Why add the "predictably"? I don't think that follows our rules about neutrality in articles... Professor Penguino (talk) 01:39, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Per above. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 03:01, 2 June 2024 (UTC)