Talk:Characters of the StarCraft series

The merging of the character articles

This article has merged all major characters of StarCraft into one article (with the exception of Zeratul, Kerrigan and Raynor, as extra information is available for them), per the new WP:FICTION. It's now written from an out-of-universe perspective and substantial details on development, reception and merchandise (all specified under WP:FICTION) have been included. However, not much information was available for the development aspect, so further expansion there will be needed as more sources come to light. All character pages and redirect pages have been redirected here. All portrait images have been done in a consistent style, and to answer the questions before they come: the one of Nova is from the Ghost cinematic trailer, and the one of Findlay is from the SC2 cinematic trailer. Expect one on based Valerian Mengsk's concept art from Blizzcon soon. Article is based on Characters of Final Fantasy VIII. Also, if anyone comes across a listing of the cast of StarCraft: Insurrection, please let me know. -- Sabre 11:04, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

GA

Overall, this article is well sourced, and provides plenty of out of universe perspective. Some considerations, though; there are some slightly awkward sentences, so help from the League of Copyeditors or a thorough self-copy edit might be helpful. In terms of where to go from here, I'd prolly say to wait until Starcraft II comes out before attempting to nominate for FAC. As article stability is an important part of FA criteria, I doubt the article would pass when new characters will appear. David Fuchs ^(talk) 18:47, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Inconsistent use of titles

S@bre, you've added titles to some areas, such as "Praetor Fenix", but not to others, such as "General Edmund Duke". You've also removed the capitalization on some titles, such as Commander and Hierarch, which I can't understand the reasoning for in the slightest. Is this a work in progress, such that when you finish, the titles throughout the article will be consistent? If so, please temporarily revert and save your changes to add all at once so the article doesn't have this patchwork quality. Thanks! Kasreyn 18:50, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure what you mean: someone added "Praetor Fenix" as the title for the section earlier and I reverted it for the sake of consistency across all character section titles. Each character is introduced in their section with their full name, with any appropriate ranks quickly following: "Edmund Duke was originally a general in the Confederate Security Forces..."; "Fenix a three-hundred and ninety year old male Protoss templar, and is an old friend of Tassadar. A praetor in the Protoss Defence Forces...". Outside these introductions, it is at the editors discretion whether they wish to put "General Edmund Duke", "Edmund Duke", "General Duke" or simply "Duke".

My rationale for not capitalising the ranks and titles is simple: when used as a noun, you don't capitalise "general" (ie Edmund Duke was originally a general), you only capitalise it when it's used as a title to a name (ie General Edmund Duke). I apply the same to other titles: "hierarch" when used as a noun (ie "Artanis is a hierarch", "Tassadar is an executor") and "Hierarch" when used as a title ("Hierarch Artanis", "Executor Tassadar"). To my eyes, it is all consistent - maybe you can present a direct example? Are you sure you aren't confusing my edits with those done very recently by 220.236.165.164 and 70.53.186.148? A number of their edits messed up the convention I was following and I reverted them, but its possible I've missed a few. -- Sabre 19:40, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

WP:VG Assessment

Provided the following is addressed, I am proposing this for A-class.

• Citations of the StarCraft Legacy website should be fixed per my suggestion on Talk:Jim Raynor, copied for convenience:

• In citing the website "StarCraft Legacy", make it clear that the actual scene is cited, not the website. StarCraft Legacy on its own is not a reliable source. Instead of:

• "Transcript of dialogue for Episode V, mission 5a". StarCraft Legacy. Retrieved 2007-07-18. {{cite web}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)"
• StarCraft Episode V, mission 5a: Emperor's Fall (Ground Zero). Blizzard Entertainment. Transcript.

The latter is based on {{cite episode}} - with the huge number of links, one might consider adding the functionality of citing a specific part of a video game, and adding transcripts, to {{cite video game}}.

• Gaming jargon. "Playable" and "Controllable" in the lead as an example, and it might be worth to check the rest.
• In universe style. I recognise the great job done here on keeping in-universe style to a minimum, but I have a real problem with the first sentences in some of the sections. Introduce characters with their role in the game, not with their fictional significance. So, instead of:

Tassadar is a three hundred and fifty-six year old male Protoss high templar, holding the rank of executor in the Protoss Defense Forces.

Write (fictional):

Tassadar is the primary protagonist in the early Protoss missions of StarCraft. He is a three hundred and fifty-six year old...

Some of the sections already do this, so keep it up.

User:Krator (t c) 22:20, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the assessment. But why is SCL not a reliable source? The Clawed One 22:38, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how to adjust the sources as you suggested, but will edit the grammar and tone. The Clawed One 22:45, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I'll look into the references later, it shouldn't be too hard, but there's a lot of them to do. -- Sabre 09:41, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I've done the references for the Kerrigan and Raynor articles, I'll go for the long haul with the references in this article tomorrow. -- Sabre 15:45, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Musical theme with character names?

I noticed long ago that Artanis backwards is Sinatra. Samir Duran clearly seems to have been named after Duran Duran ("My name is Duran. Duran!"). I'm not sure of any other allusions, but perhaps these two should be mentioned at least?--SeizureDog 09:45, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Strikes me as more of an afterthought by Blizzard than a design feature: the Duran Duran moment is only meant as a joke, there's no evidence to suggest the character is deliberately named after the band. And Artanis is also another name for Galadriel as well. I don't think it would be appropriate to put that sort of thing in. -- Sabre 14:00, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Collectors figures (StarCraft).jpg

Image:Collectors figures (StarCraft).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 10:45, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Artanis

On the Blizzard site they have released a recap article for Starcraft's episodes I, II, and III. It reveals that the player character in the Protoss campaign is actually Artanis. Someone ought to update his profile for a small recap of what he did in Episode III. 72.234.46.115 (talk) 08:18, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Whilst full details of the player's activities in Episode III should be avoided, it could be worth brief mention if true. Can you provide the link? -- Sabre (talk) 10:49, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Here you go, [1] 72.234.46.115 (talk) 12:06, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Interesting, it also makes the promotion of Duke in Liberty's Crusade canon, as well as confirming the Queen of Blades introduction of Artanis as the executor. Seems a little odd that Artanis is the executor, since that role seems to be more of a general's role, while praetor seems comparable to an army captain. In any case, it's clearly the way that Blizzard are moving the canon of the lore, so I'll add a note about it to Artanis' section, as well as a similar note to Duke's section. -- Sabre (talk) 16:12, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Fenix

Just wondering, in the section on Fenix, at the start it talks about him as if he is alive, when its clear, at least from the events of Brood War, that he was killed by Kerrigan...at the end of the same section, it also notes this, and the rumor about him being brought back again, but also says Blizzard denies this. So until its official that hes being brought back a third time, shouldnt the first part of the article refer to him in past tense? I won't edit it, apparently all my edits are "spam"...Taker04 (talk) 14:50, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Per the Wikipedia Manual of Style on fiction, as we are dealing with a fictional character, so the tense should always be in the present as it is now. If we were dealing with a real person who was dead, then yes it should be past tense, but we're not and therefore we should write about the subject from a real-world perspective. -- Sabre (talk) 17:27, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Shouldnt Fenix be under Primary characters instead of other main characters. I thought a good portion of the protoss story in Starcraft revolved around him and in Starcraft Brood War he was a important part in the Zerg chapter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tisoneguy (talk • contribs) 16:50, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

If you think about it more closely, in the grand scheme of the StarCraft series, Fenix doesn't actually do anything. While a strong character, he's just "there", just another battlefield commander who's killed off, brought back then killed off again. Note in particular that the official summaries of StarCraft and Brood War by Blizzard make no reference to Fenix at all beyond the use of one bit of dialogue. [2][3] He doesn't actually influence the storyline in any great capacity in the way Raynor, Kerrigan or Zeratul do. -- Sabre (talk) 17:24, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

I would have to agree with you. Fenix does seem like an important character. Maybe not in brood war as much but in the first one yes i believe he was. I dont know if I would say he was just "there" cause in his biography it says he lead the attack when Aldaris wanted to arrest Tassadar. He even gave safe passage for Zeretul when he killed several cerebrates. As I can see without him tassadar and zeretul would have died. Even though in some battles he wasnt present, in the briefing he planned a big part in the mission such as the last mission in chapter 3. I can see where you can see that he was just there in brood war. He really didnt do nothing that was a big part in the story. All he did was provide safe passage to the dark templar home world and help Kerrigan and died by the zerg. Sorry for rambling on but I do have a question. In most polls i find on the net I see Fenix being listed as 3rd or 2nd favorite character. Why would people vote for him if he was just there and not a primary character. I kinda agree with both of you.

                                                   -Microthumb-  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Microthumb (talk • contribs) 16:47, 5 March 2009 (UTC) 

This looked like a fun discussion so I thought I might get in on it. Fenix is my favorite character and I 2 see him as a primary character but we may all look at characters in different ways. Im sorry to change the topic but I am really curious. Do you think that Fenix will return in Starcraft II? I found this think on imbd.com and i found this Yet, another hero from the past is about to revive for the second time. Do u think that it could be Fenix since hes the only one that can return for a second time? Interesting isnt it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Solidrings (talk • contribs) 02:49, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, i am sure it is him. He is the only one that fits what you said. Maybe he will come back as an immortal or he could just come back as a ghost or something. I am sure he will make some kind of appearance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.161.239.97 (talk) 00:59, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

It all makes since now, but we may not see him until Legacy of the Void. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.161.86.142 (talk) 05:05, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Zeratul listed with the wrong voice actor.

Zeratul is actually voiced by Jack Ritschel in Starcraft and Broodwar, and he is deceased. See

http://www.sclegacy.com/content/editorials-8/blizzcon-2007-starcraft-lore-panel-editorial-44/

Who actually voices Zeratul is unclear. One source will say Ritschel, another will say Harper. Both are credited as voice actors in the game, but which one does what is not in the credits. Its an issue I think is worth contacting Blizzard directly for clarification, as reliable sources credit both people for the role. -- Sabre (talk) 10:54, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

The recent BlizzCon 2009 panel cleared up the confusion. It's Ritschel that voiced the character. Just look it up on YouTube.64.85.234.166 (talk) 08:59, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Character's ages

Duran's profile claims that: "Duran also claims to have "had many names throughout the millennia", suggesting that he is far older than any other character in StarCraft; even the extremely long lived Protoss rarely live over a single millennium."

While Duran certainly is among the oldest characters, the statement isn't entirely true. In the mission "Full Circle" from the original Zerg Campaign, The Overmind refers to itself as having "born withness to the passing of countless millennia". Since Cerebrates are described in the manual as having been around since the beginnings on Zerus, the oldest Cerebrates (like Daggoth) are probably almost as old. Their ages are listed as unknown in the manual, as well. Darthdyas (talk) 22:39, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorted. Duran is now noted as older than "most other characters", rather than "any other character". -- Sabre (talk) 10:05, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

High ONRQ is a put off

I am a bit worried about the article's readability, specificly to people unfamiliar with StarCraft. According to the Outside kNowledge ReQuired guideline, this article is unusable to people who have not played the game. Now I know ONRQ isn't an industry standard or Wikipedia policy, but I use it extensively to judge whether I am writing too technically. I am not advocating a dumbing down of the article, but rather that someone put some layman's explanations in. This was done with the fictional rank system used to describe the Protoss, but hasn't been done elsewhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nezzadar (talk • contribs) 21:02, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Though I can't see quite where the article becomes non-understandable for non-players, I do accept that the article needs a thorough copyedit to get it up to a decent quality again. Its been quite a while since its GA review, standards in regards to prose have risen since and a number of references have gone dead. I will hopefully be able to get something done with this in the next few weeks. -- Sabre (talk) 09:59, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Did someone copy-and-paste this article, print it and sell it for money?

Because that might just have happened: http://www.general-books.net/book.cfm?id=3637940 (source link)

If you click on the publisher link, http://booksllc.net/?id=12123161, it leads right back to the Characters of StarCraft page! The random excerpt also looks familiar.

The book is on sale for $10, and is also at Amazon and Barnes & Noble under the ISBN 978-1156-61699-4. The publisher, General Books, has a shady looking link: http://generalbooks.org/index.html Kimera757 (talk) 12:57, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia administrators have been alerted. Kimera757 (talk) 00:24, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Zeratul

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Zeratul's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "manual":

• From Jim Raynor: Underwood, Peter (1998-04-01). "Roster of Heroes". StarCraft (manual). Blizzard Entertainment. p. 91. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)
• From Koprulu sector (StarCraft): Underwood, Peter, Bill Roper, Chris Metzen and Jeffrey Vaughn. StarCraft (Manual). Irvine, Calif.: Blizzard Entertainment, 1998
• From Characters of StarCraft: Underwood, Peter (1998). StarCraft (manual). Irvine, Calif.: Blizzard Entertainment. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)

Reference named "ep4m4":

• From List of minor characters in the StarCraft series: Blizzard Entertainment (1998). StarCraft: Brood War (PC). Level/area: Episode IV, mission 4: "The Quest for Uraj". Transcript.
• From Characters of StarCraft: Blizzard Entertainment (1998). StarCraft: Brood War (PC). Level/area: Episode IV, mission 4: "The Quest for Uraj". Transcript (Archived from the original on 2004-10-08).

Reference named "ep6m8":

• From List of minor characters in the StarCraft series: Blizzard Entertainment (1998). StarCraft: Brood War (PC). Level/area: Episode VI, mission 8: "To Slay the Beast". Transcript.
• From Characters of StarCraft: Blizzard Entertainment (1998). StarCraft: Brood War (PC). Level/area: Episode VI, mission 8: "To Slay the Beast". Transcript (Archived from the original on 2004-10-08).

Reference named "QueenNovel":

• From Characters of StarCraft: Rosenburg, Aaron (2006). StarCraft: Queen of Blades. Simon & Schuster.
• From Koprulu sector (StarCraft): Rosenburg, Aaron. StarCraft: Queen of Blades. Simon & Schuster Pocket Books, 2006

Reference named "LoreVid":

• From Characters of StarCraft: Metzen, Chris; Chambers, Andy (2007-08-03). StarCraft lore panel (Panel discussion recording). Blizzcon: IncGamers. {{cite AV media}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); External link in |title= (help)
• From List of minor characters in the StarCraft series: Metzen, Chris; Chambers, Andy; StarCraft Legacy staff. 2009-04-03. BlizzCon 2007 StarCraft Lore Panel Editorial. StarCraft Legacy. Accessed 2009-05-18.

Reference named "ep4m8":

• From Characters of StarCraft: Blizzard Entertainment (1998). StarCraft: Brood War (PC). Level/area: Episode IV, mission 8: "Countdown". Transcript (Archived from the original on 2004-10-08).
• From Species of StarCraft: Blizzard Entertainment (1998). StarCraft: Brood War (PC). Level/area: Episode IV, mission 8: "Countdown". Transcript.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 12:29, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Arcturus

@ Codename Lisa, Well here you go. let's hear what you have contested. For the record prior to any of this. You are already plain wrong in saying Arcturus only tried to kill Kerrigan on Phaeton (during HOTS), and nowhere else. Because he simply has tried several times. Now, the way you wish to slice this I don't know, but here are some facts. 1) Arcturus HIMSELF ONLY tried killing Kerrigan on Korhal at the endgame. 2) Dominion under Arcturus' control (sent to-, destroy- or sacrificed for-) have tried killing Kerrigan on Phaeton, Moros and Korhal during the siege. And now I'm eager to hear what you've got to say, and what is so wrong about those sentences. 195.109.63.17 (talk) 13:15, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Well, Hello, guest editor. It is good to see you here!

But first, are you interested in hearing what I have to say at all? Know that we Wikipedia editors are here to build an Wikipedia in a civil manner; here, good editors have a rule of thumb: "When you know your edit is definitely contested by your friend, do not do it. Instead, do convince them, which is not hard." If you prefer a space where editor cabals are the norm and consensus-building has no place, I suggest starcraft.wikia.com.

Now, giving me a list of incidents in which Kerrigan's death, if killed, might have had a connection to Mengsk isn't called "going to a great length". Most of these incidents are reactions, not proactive actions. "Going to a great length" means he took proactive initiativenon-reactive action and didn't rest till the action was completeresulted either in success or failure. Curiously, this is exactly what Kerrigan did in HOTS.

Best regards,

Codename Lisa (talk) 12:36, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

It would seem to me that if the IP's assertions are accurate (and I don't remember the game in enough detail to confirm that), then the controversial sentence is justified. "Going to great lengths" actually does not require a person to be proactive nor successful in their efforts. The phrase simply implies that considerable effort, time, and/or resources were spent. If Mengsk assigned someone to kill her three or more times, that definitely would qualify in my opinion. -- Fyrael (talk) 18:54, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I see where I may have mistaken the wording. Rather than specifically tasking someone to kill her in those three incidents, did Mengsk merely have units assigned to some other goal in an area in which Kerrigan happened to be? -- Fyrael (talk) 18:59, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Fyrael. This is exactly the case about Moros, Korhal and Char. On Char, Kerrigan was not expected at all. On Moros, the dominion had to expect both a premeditated and a chance encounter, including a prisoner uprising. On Korhal, ... well it was his home. If he didn't do it, instead of being "a brilliant tactician and strategist", he would have been an idiot. On Phaeton, however, the efforts were active instead of reactive: Mengsk sent Nova and a full fleet. These three cases, however, are examples of Kerrigan's proactive action to topple Mengsk.

After Phaeton, Mengsk did the opposite of "going to a great length"; he took Raynor hostage instead. As with all the hostage situations, the captors are the weak entities who hide behind something valuable to their enemy. Mengsk must have abandoned all hopes of a direct frontal assault on the swarm.

Best regards,

Codename Lisa (talk) 14:48, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

And hello to you too :) Yeah I'm am prepared to hear you out. I just reacted quite heavily I admit. Well, I did concede with you already that "Going to great lengths" might not be the accurate wording. I did change that the first edit already. However, Mengsk sacrificed an entire prison ship without hesitation, Char I didn't even count because this was basically Kerrigan vs Warfield where Mengsk seemed to have little involvement. And come to think of it, on Phaeton Mengsk didn't only come for Kerrigan, but to kill all residents there. Don't forget that Valerian overstepped his boundary in WOL, and the Umojans houses Kerrigan and Raynor as well, making it a very interesting target for Mengsk alltogether. And lets also not forget Mengsk that Mengsk knew very well Kerrigan was coming to korhal, that was inevitable. He did go through great lengths to try and stop her (and the swarm). this can be accounted by Phaeton, his personal threat of killing Raynor if Kerrigan came too close (with Moros-incident afterwards) and finally his last stand on Korhal itself. (I'm also referring here more so to him having the Xel'Naga device, and not so much the siege of Augustgrad.

I also was mainly arguing the praise "Only tried to kill Kerrigan on Phaeton", because that simply wasn't true. Hope to have made my point acros. 195.109.63.17 (talk) 08:10, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

it has been some time now with this discussion pretty much having blead to death. I will continue and concluded it by also saying this: Although mengsk may not have gone through great lengths, and he has acted out the "classic" take hostage situation stuff... One can not argue his nearly extreme measures to try abd stop Kerrigan, and this may surely be accounted for. so as it stands to me, I'm editing this to: "During the events of Heart of the Swarm, Mengsk tries to have Kerrigan killed on several occasions, including issuing an obituary about Raynor." 195.109.63.17 (talk) 07:01, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

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Disrepair

Well, this article has either fallen into disrepair or standards have significantly changed, because it's currently full of in-universe video game trivia and needs to be pared down to core details if not elaborated in reliable, secondary sources.  czar 07:49, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

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GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Characters of StarCraft/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

Multiple expand section templates. Not to mention prose and referencing issues. Page size is 105KB readable prose, which is well above recommended. So in addition to expanding some trimming or splitting is needed. Wondering if it would be better as a list? Either way a lot of work needed to get it up to standard. AIRcorn (talk) 00:41, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

• DelistThe size of the critical reception is insanely small compared to the plot-cruft. It's also basically a list, so moving to "List of StarCraft characters" would make sense. It certainly isn't an in depth analysis into the characters in general. It can probably be a lot shorter after all the plot cruft is removed that would be better fitting on StarCraft Wiki._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 09:44, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Agree. Thanks for your comment. There are similar problems at Races of StarCraft (which I have also put up for reassessment). The main editor is retired unfortunately, so I will give these a week or so to see if anyone else is willing and then delist them if no one is. AIRcorn (talk) 20:36, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

• Comment Didn't realize the main editor was gone, that would explain all the small details etc getting massively out of hand. I suppose I could waltz through it, but no one on Wikipedia respects fiction material anymore and I swore off the stuff after my last attempt at working with fiction became a non-fiction lesson in how astronomically little people on site care about fiction material. TomStar81 (Talk) 22:26, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

• Delisting Not much activity at the article and it is a big job. If someone wants to work on getting it to GA standard it would probably be easier without the pressures of a reassessment going on. So will delist, but would encourage anyone interested to put it through WP:GAN once the plot is tightened and more in depth anaylsis of the characters from a real world perspective are added. AIRcorn (talk) 03:58, 12 April 2018 (UTC)