Talk:Black Europeans

Sources

I have been trying to trace the source of the numbers in the "Demographics" table, which have been copied back and forth between various articles in French and English Wikipedia. The best sourcing appears to be in the English Wikipedia article, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_immigration_to_Europe#Demographics. Someone could implement those sources here. (the data is not the same, as this article is about people with longer descent than new immigrants or children of immigrants, but the sourcing is at least present there) - the numbers here are smaller and have no sourcing at all. 157.139.21.63 (talk) 21:26, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

For this article, I have added some information from Johny Pitts. He is an Afropean that has written a book on the topic as well as done a plethora of interviews on the topic in order to educate people who may not be as well educated on this topic. He has dedicated a large portion of his life to help educate others about the topic of Africans in Europe.130.74.162.101 (talk) 15:18, 12 April 2021 (UTC)Mary

Spain

I looked into the edit warring over 290,00 and 300,000 Black Europeans of African descent in Spain and discovered that the supposed source said nothing of the kind. Instead it states that there are 1,322,625 African-born in Spain. Nothing about Black, and nothing about any of African descent but not born in Africa. I have included this number with an explanatory note. Meters (talk) 18:40, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Totally agree: African born does not mean black. In Spain the most African born population comes from Morocco, which is not black. According to the latest national statistics, 984.682 out of 1.371.755 African living in Spain are from Morocco, so the data should ca 400,000 : https://www.ine.es/jaxi/Datos.htm?path=/t20/e245/p08/l0/&file=01006.px Mao92 (talk) 08:41, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Morocco is not a Sub-Saharan country ;-) Mao92 (talk) 08:41, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 June 2022

Berkecuku (talk) 11:01, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Spain ~300,000 Blacks

~300,000 Blacks Berkecuku (talk) 11:01, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:09, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 June 2022

2A02:A44D:B3A6:1:DD5:E00D:80C5:E2B1 (talk) 01:43, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

I don't know how this work so who knows if someone will see this but in this article some is calling European countries "states". UE is not a country with states like USA, it's a Union of countries…

 Not done: "State" can also refer to a country. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/state Cannolis (talk) 01:57, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 August 2023 (2)

The United Kingdom has approximately 3.2 million black people, inclusive of mixed race, according to the 2021 Census. 2A00:23C5:EF47:2701:8DBE:4204:8724:650C (talk) 10:24, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 10:58, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

How was the data regarding Denmark collected?

I would like to know how accurate the data is pertaining to Denmark. So I would like to know, does the data include for example African or Black Americans who migrate to Europe in the data? And if so, where is that data found? 80.71.142.201 (talk) 07:20, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Black Europeans of Caribbean Ancestry

User:Meters @Meters What is the issue with my edit? The next section says "In the European Union (EU) as of 2019, there is a record of approximately 9.6 million people of Sub-Saharan African or Afro-Caribbean descent". So there are Black Europeans of Caribbean ancestry and the article speaks about it. I included the link within "Caribbean" of my edit to link to the Afro-Caribbean page. There is a very large number of Black Europeans of Caribbean ancestry in the UK, France and the Netherlands, and they don't really identify with Africa in any way. Freee Contributor (talk) 19:49, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Even the only photo on the article references Carnival, a Caribbean celebration. Freee Contributor (talk) 20:06, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

The article is "'Black Europeans of African ancestry"'. You changed the intro to Black Europeans, or Black Europeans of African ancestry. [1]. Not the same thing. If you wan to change the definition then try to get consensus on the talk page. You have been doing this on multiple pages. Meters (talk) 03:50, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 18 March 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Per consensus – robertsky (talk) 14:32, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

---

Black Europeans of African ancestry → Black Europeans – Because Black Europeans of Caribbean Ancestry are not the same as Black Europeans of African ancestry. Moreover, the only photo used is of a Caribbean celebration and the data includes both Black Europeans of African ancestry and Black Europeans of Caribbean Ancestry. Plus, it's not inclusive of Black Europeans of Black American/Brazilian/Colombian etc. descent. Moreover, there are no other articles for Black European to redirect to, so it is not a concise title as per WP:CONCISE. Plus, Black Europeans would be precise as there is no disambiguation (as per Wikipedia:PRECISION) since the article references Black Europeans of Caribbean Ancestry. Freee Contributor (talk) 21:44, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

No. The definition for this article is clear... "people in Europe who trace full or partial ancestry to Sub-Saharan Africa". It does not matter if these people came to Europe via the Caribbean or elsewhere. Meters (talk) 00:11, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Except that there is no other definition of Black European (Black European only has this as its redirect), so "of African ancestry" is not necessary, nor does it explain their Caribbean or Latin etc. heritages. Plus, "Afro-European" is used in the article even though large portions of Black Europeans do not use that phrase or identify with it as they're far removed from Africa or African, so it does matter where they came from. For example, in censuses, they do not use the African background choice. In Ireland, "the 2022 census lists 8,699 people who identify as "Black or Black Irish from any other Black background" (i.e. non-African background)." So what exactly is the benefit of "of African ancestry" at the end of the article title if, by your logic, there are no other Black Europeans because all Black Europeans descend from Sub-Saharan Africa one way or another? Freee Contributor (talk) 08:44, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

The last point is particularly important when it comes to article title policy of "Concision" as there are no other articles for Black Europeans and the ending of "of African ancestry" is both unnecessary and confusing. Plus, once again, it does not recognise those of Caribbean or Latin etc. heritage. This is important as they did not come to Europe "via the Caribbean", they are from the Caribbean. Freee Contributor (talk) 08:47, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Looking at Google Ngrams, there are 0 ngrams for "Black Europeans of African Ancestry", but this shows "Black Europeans" is actually used. Plus, the term "Caribbean-European" is used as seen here. So Black European is the WP:COMMONNAME and it is also a concise name that can be used to reference Black Europeans of various Black backgrounds, especially as there is no other article for Black Europeans. Freee Contributor (talk) 09:21, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support. Don't pretty much all black Europeans have African ancestry? The only exceptions would be European people of Australian Aboriginal or Melanesian ancestry, a very small group. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:59, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support, by definition black Europeans have African ancestry and CONCISE.--Ortizesp (talk) 14:00, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support per nom and per Necrothesp and Ortizesp. Absent an argument about their being Black Europeans lacking African ancestry, the specification in the title is not needed. BD2412 T 00:10, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support I wonder if we'll be moving this to Afropean in a few years? (to use Johny Pitts' phrase). Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 10:05, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 21 September 2024 (2)

There is a mistake concerning the percentage for Ireland. It is 1.38% or 1.4% rounded for the 2016 census results. I looked it up. It s not 1.7% Let me correct the mistake for Ireland, it's 1.4% instead of 1.7% 134.184.232.73 (talk) 18:15, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

 Done Verified from the cited 2016 census. Thanks, but please don't request the same edit twice. Meters (talk) 20:44, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

duplicate requests consolidated Meters (talk)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 September 2024

The number for black/afro Germans is definitely 1million these days. So it's the correct number. Not the 500 thousand people. So it is indeed about 1.2% of the population, a similar percentage to the one of 1.4% in ireland 134.184.232.73 (talk) 11:20, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. PianoDan (talk) 05:43, 23 September 2024 (UTC)