Talk:Beyond the Sea (2004 film)/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch
A good article is:

1. Well-written: Prose is fine and the manual of style guidelines are good.
2. Factually accurate and verifiable: No original research and sources look good. Just need to add for Awards section (see below).
3. Broad in its coverage: Addresses the main aspects of the topic and stays focused.
4. Neutral: Check.
5. Stable: No edit wars.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by images: Check.

• The article looked good. The most significant change I made was removing most of the long quote about Kevin Spacey's publicity tour and incorporating the info into the article instead; most of the information in there could be told better in the prose than in the quote.

A few suggestions...

• One thing that's missing are citations for the Awards section. If you add those sources, this one's practically ready for GA status.
• There should also be a mention of other actors who were rumored to be in the running to play Bobby Darin, which according to this source include Leonardo DiCaprio, Bruce Willis] and Tom Cruise. (Cruise is mentioned in the source I list below, too.)
• The above source from Sydney Morning Herald mentions it went through 20 producers before it got to Spacey (and six writers, but I think this is covered in the article). Maybe toss that in?
• This New York Times story starts off with an interesting anecdote about Spacey landing the part/producer role by singing "Beyond the Sea" during a 1999 meeting with independent producer Arthur Friedman. This should really be included in the article. It also says he used the Darin performances and impersonation to woo the financing by performing six songs last year at the American Film Market, an annual film distribution convention in Santa Monica.
• Finally, there's a good deal of information in this article that might warrant a mention, including...
  • Spacey's thoughts on Darin: "Bobby was a man I found very compelling, driven, ambitious and complicated. He challenged himself and never sat back on his laurels. It's sad that he didn't live longer, but I don't think his life was tragic. I view his life as inspiring." (among other quotes, which you can look at and decide for yourself if they warrant inclusion)
  • The fact that Darin could identify with Darin's decisions to follow his own heart in making professional decisions, based on Spacey's own career decisions following American Beauty.
  • The fact that Spacey's two Oscar wins gave him the heft he needed (and lacked in his previous attempt) to realize Beyond the Sea
  • The fact that Dodd Darin and Kevin Spacey both see parallels between Darin's and Spacey's life; a quote from Dodd Darin: "A lot of people doubted my dad's abilities, and Kevin's had doubters and naysayers. But both [men] were willing to take risks, and both were very resilient. My dad would always try new things. You could never pin him down. Kevin's career is similar." (There's quores from Darin biographer David Evanier on this matter too)
  • Evanier also mentions that Spacey's mother wanted him to make the movie, which Evanier draws as a parallel between the belief Darin's mother had in him. I'll leave it up to your judgment on whether to include this.

Thanks, and nice job! --Hunter Kahn (talk) 04:59, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I addressed your concerns and I think this article is ready. However, I didn't include The Sydney Morning Herald because it looked like the reviewer just went on the IMDb trivia page for Beyond the Sea and just copy and pasted. Thus, I did not include the Bruce Willis rumor. But the Tom Cruise and Leonardo DiCaprio stuff is in, because I found their involvement with other citations. Other than that, thanks for reviewing. Notice the differences for my GAN edits LOL! That's almost eight kilobytes of additional information. Wildroot (talk) 04:37, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Nice job, you really went the extra mile in responding to these objections. That's a pass. --Hunter Kahn (talk) 02:00, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

A good article is:

1. Well-written: Prose is good, MOS is good.
2. Factually accurate and verifiable: Sources are good, no original research.
3. Broad in its coverage: Covers main aspects, no unneeded detail.
4. Neutral: Yes.
5. Stable: Yes.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by images: Yes.

Unbalanced Criticism

Criticism section is overly unbalanced "one of the most embarrassing spectacles of 2004" and "jaw-droppingly awful, a misbegotten and ill-conceived vanity project." are heavily critical, while you try to revert some of the good RS critic additions. Rest of the criticism also has negative comments in them. I properly source critic, newspaper, per RS, you try to subtract it everytime why exactly. If comments like extreme criticism is added, some good RS high reviews should also be added. Kasaalan (talk) 15:08, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Before edit warring explain rationale. Why I can't add positive criticism per positive source. Second you added big comment box for family yourself. Third why his family comment is related to the criticism section about critics. You try to subtract positive comments. You do not own the article. Kasaalan (talk) 15:18, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

http://www.metacritic.com/film/titles/beyondthesea/

• 80 LA Weekly Scott Foundas "Put simply, the film is a dazzling and fearless piece of showmanship."

• 80 Chicago Reader Jonathan Rosenbaum "As long as Spacey is singing, the movie soars"

• 75 Chicago Sun-Times Roger Ebert "It is also probably relevant that Spacey, in preparing the project, knew something we could not guess: He is a superb pop singer."

• 70 Washington Post Ann Hornaday "Artfully structured, combining old-school MGM-type musical numbers with occasional postmodern flourishes to keep the narrative moving."

Criticism section needs to be expanded. Kasaalan (talk) 15:30, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

While personal criticism can't be used in the article, I think this film's recording session footage was less believable compared to "Ray". In the Ray Charles biopic, the Atlantic recording studio was closer to reality with the funky surroundings. The Darin biopic's version of the 'Atco recording studio' looked like a palace by comparison. Steelbeard1 (talk) 11:15, 13 May 2014 (UTC)