Talk:German invasion of the Netherlands/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Jackyd101 (talk) 13:39, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I'll be reviewing this article for GA. As it is a very long article, I will begin the review below and add problems as I see them, which you can address at any point. Once I have finished, I will give a full summary and decide on whether to pass or hold this (fail is unlikely).--Jackyd101 (talk) 13:39, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

• A general problem throughout the article is the connectedness of sentences. Many do not seem to clearly link with the rest of the their paragraphs and they need to be properly connected. Some of the biggest problems are in the "Training and readiness" section.
• Don't link dates, such as those in the lead.
• The lead as a whole should be substantially longer and more detailed, with a summary of major events during the invasion and something on the aftermath.
• "high officers made no effort to mobilise the public opinion." - what does this mean? Needs to be clarified.
• "but they tried limiting their reaction" - "they limited their reaction"
• Try to make sure that references always come after punctuation - they make the text much harder to read when they are mid-flow.
• "which was e.g. proposed" - don't use "e.g.", say "for example" instead.
• "the Dutch exceptionally did not recognise the communist regime" - explain in what way it is exceptional
• Dutch Air Force section has outstanding tags.

Hallo Jackyd101! I agree that in general references should come after punctuation but sometimes a reference is used to directly source an aspect or qualification that otherwise might seem a POV-statement or OR. When those aspects had a sufficient importance, I expressed them in a separate, sourced, sentence. This is what causes the apparent lack of "connectedness". It's a choice between a better flow of the language and sourcing statements in an unequivocal way. The latter goal has, I understand, priority. Of course, it is possible to begin every sentence with "also", "moreover" or "furthermore" but after a while this would get very annoying :o).

Many of the defects of the article are a result of it simply not having been finished yet. It should, in my opinion, not have been made a candidate for GA-status. I failed to dissuade a user who is, I get the impression, very young, very enthusiastic, very well-meaning and very new to Wikipedia — and thus unaware of the consequences of certain actions.

I'll try clarifying too obscure passages.--MWAK (talk) 18:57, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. are you suggesting the article will be withdrawn from GAN? Because I agree that this article does need quite a bit of tidying at the moment, and I don't want to spend time doing a full review if the article isn't going to be worked on. On your other point, while sourcing does indeed take primacy, it doesn't have to be, and should not be, at the expense of prose. There are always ways to tidy prose while still maintaining high sourcing standards. In fact, an FAC cannot be passed without doing this.--Jackyd101 (talk) 21:45, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

The last is certainly true. Having read again the section you considered most "unconnected", I agree that there is room for considerable improvement on this point :o). So your critique will not have been made in vain. However, I must admit I would favour a withdrawal of the nomination. The logical course of events would be to finish the article — which may take quite some time — and only then, after all imperfections one was aware of have been remedied, to subject it to the judgment of the larger Wikipedia community.--MWAK (talk) 15:05, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

OK, if anyone is planning on working on this article in the near future to address the concerns raised in this review then please let me know here. If no one leaves a statement of intent within seven days then I will fail this article.--Jackyd101 (talk) 17:24, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree with MWAK here. I am the very young (not too young!) very enthusiastic, very well-meaning and very new to Wikipedian. This article needs some more work before it can become a GA. And right now I am very tied up with the World War II Article and its attempt/finalization at/of a GA. As a result I will be unable to address many of the concerns that you have mentioned. I am willing to withdraw the nomination as I am very bussy right now. Once the ww2 article passes its GA nom. Ill start the work. Perhaps sometime next year. In short I agree to the withdraw per the reasons stated above. Thanks--Coldplay Expért ^{Let's talk} 02:27, 23 November 2009 (UTC)