Talk:Sudanese civil war (2023–present)

Suggest removing the "Reactions" section

Currently this article is sitting at about 13000 words of text, and while its obviously a massive topic that merits as large an article as reasonable that's still very close to the maximum allocated by the guidelines on article size, especially considering further developments in the war will likely see more content added. As such, I propose removing the 'Reactions' section as a first step, since it contains mostly unimportant and outdated information. The reactions of important groups, such as the National Umma Party, Sudanese Communist Party and the international community can be covered in the 'Course of the war' and 'Foreign involvement' sections. Devonian Wombat (talk) 05:43, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

There probably shouldn't be a reactions section, it reads as a holdover from when the conflict began and doesn't fit the war it became. Rather than simply deleting the text as outdated, it would probably be worth merging it into the timeline articles if the information is absent there. CMD (talk) 06:09, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Checked, it's a holdover from 15 April when the page was about the initial outbreak of hostilities. A very different article topic now. CMD (talk) 13:11, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

you can shorten the "Casualties" and "War crimes investigations" as both can be found detailed in War crimes during the Sudanese civil war (2023–present), including sexual violence, attacks on journalists and humanitarian workers, and Darfur. FuzzyMagma (talk) 19:45, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 July 2024

change article name to third Sudanese Civil War as it is the third in the country 173.72.3.91 (talk) 23:12, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template.

See the proposed move thread at the top of this page, the suggested rename was declined. RudolfRed (talk) 23:39, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

On the subject of the ‘Third Civil War?” Question

Just to start, I don’t believe by Wikipedia’s rules for Common this should be the title. That’s been proven clearly. That’s not up for debate.

I just would like to argue against the notion I saw that either “This isn’t the third civil war because it’s not directly connected to the previous two” OR “It’s not third because Darfur is 3rd, or SPLM-N is third, so the numbering is wrong”.

Let me tackle both of those at once.

The First Sudanese Civil War was about South Sudan wanting either independence or autonomy from the north. They got autonomy, but the North didn’t always respect it and some in the south wanted more. Second civil war was largely about the same issues, ended with an agreement to split the country. During the second civil war other long simmering tensions in Darfur(which had been its own country prior to colonization, in fact it sided with the Central Powers against the British in WW1) boiled over, and taking advantage of the central governments distraction both pro-independence rebels and anti-Darfur militias started fighting, culminating in the genocide.

The War in Darfur was a side front in the Second Sudanese Civil War. It started in 200, a full two years before the main front ended. It also involved a lot of the same issues as the main conflict, Arabs in conflict with Sub Saharan Africans. Hence ‘War in Darfur’ and not ‘Darfur War’, it was part of the larger conflict. You’ve seen this sort of spillover and sub- conflict in other civil wars, both since(Syria had the Isis rising and Kurdish movement alongside the main Assad v Green Rebel war) and before (Russian civil war, too many to list). So this Third Conflict started because of the unresolved issues in Darfur left by the aftermath of the Secokd Civil War’s War in Darfur(which continued after the main peace agreement).

And the southern rebels factions, mainly the SPLM and specifically N, is in the same bucket. They’re fighting for the same cause as the first two wars, joining Sourh Sudan. This is another case of unresolved North-Sourh issues, Second War never fully settled the exact border and the issues of people on the wrong side of the lines. The initial lower intensity fighting following the Second Civil War and the final 2011 treaty ended in 2020, but full scale fighting reopened in the current conflict. It’s the same cause as the last two civil wars, just on a smaller scale in the border regions that never got clean resolution.

I fully agree with keeping the name as is for now, but if and when Third Sudanese Civil War becomes a commonly used name it should be changed. This isn’t secretly the 4th or 5th one. The War in Darfur was a front of the Second Civil War that took longer to end as it didn’t involve the SPLA(who were involved in the 2005 ceasefire). The SPLM-N conflict from 2011-2020 was a continuation of the prior insurgency due to disagreements on the North-South border. Both these unresolved issues left from the Second War boiled over, reopening fighting in both theatres. It’s the Third one. Only difference is now Darfur is the main theater and the Southern Seperatists are the secondary theater taking advantage of the central governments weakness instead of the other way around 2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:D501:1090:B90D:9241 (talk) 21:12, 13 July 2024 (UTC)