Talk:Protests against Daniel Ortega

Ongoing or until 2016?

The infobox says the protests are ongoing, but the title of the article says they went until 2016. Which should be changed? Hobbitschuster (talk) 01:44, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Content split

Hi Jamez42, I see you've made a WP:BOLD content split from the April 2018 section. That seems appropriate to me at this point, although I wanted to solicit input here in case others (especially recent contributors ZiaLater and Alexandru M., as well as any others following) think they should still be grouped together, in order to make clear the continuity between the prior activism and the current protests. (I tend to think we can do that sufficiently with prose, but maybe I am wrong.)

If we maintain the split, we have a bit of an attribution issue because to satisfy WP licensing requirements, the first edit summary creating the new page should have indicated that the material was copied from this page. I will look into how to get that corrected.

Finally, I would suggest we change the names of both this page and the new page, because the page view tool suggests people are not finding this page, despite considerable interest (13,000 hits on the Nicaragua page each of the last two days, up from typically 3000/day; by contrast, single digits here.) How would people feel about "Nicaraguan protests, 2014-2017" and "Nicaraguan protests, 2018"? We could leave the current titles as redirects. We should probably also create a redirect referencing canal protests, although I tend to think it's appropriate that not be the name for this page, since the canal was only part of the issue; I would be interested to hear more opinions though.

Will welcome thoughts on all. Thanks. Innisfree987 (talk) 18:15, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

@Innisfree987: Hi! Thanks for commenting your thoughts on this. First of all my apologies for not starting the new article commenting it was a copy of this one, I was unaware of WP:PROSPLIT. I hope that it can solved.

The main reason why I split the articles was to differentiate teh waves of protests and the underlying reasons. This is a concern I have expressed with the Venezuelan protests both in the Spanish Wikipedia as well as the English one. While I completely understand the reason and intention behind the title since my country is in a similar situation, where there are almost daily social and political protests, I still worry that the title is misleading and suggests that a combative wave of protests started in 2014 and has continued until now.

My recommendation would be to give an end date to the 2014 protests, since there must have been a point when the protests have diminished, to consider the possibility of renaming the article with a title such as "Nicaraguan Canal protests" (although I'm personally inclined to keep the current title) and to rename or start a single article with a title such as "Timeline of the Nicaraguan protests" like it has been done with the Venezuelan protests (2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018) because I think it's important to keep track of previous protests too. I should also note that I nominated the article of the 2018 protests for the ITN page. Best wishes. --Jamez42 (talk) 18:47, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi there, so, attribution's all sorted; here's the how-to in case you ever need it in the future: WP:RIA.

For page names: my main thought is that we don't have enough sources just yet to be confident about where to draw the line on substantive focus of different protests. I've seen several RS (e.g. 1, 2) depicting protests on April 18 as an expansion of environmental/indigenous rights protests just prior, and while the preceding protests were not about the canal, it's fairly clear they grew out of that movement. (A related issue is whether the canal is really "cancelled" or just stalled; sources from earlier this year appear to conflict, but I'll comment on the canal's page about that.) Until we have better sources describing relationships/distinctions among canal, social security, anti-authoritarian (etc.) threads of protests, it seems like chronology is the best distinction to make (i.e. sources definitely confirm the size of these 2018 protests is distinguishing). I think my suggestion would be we make this page "Nicaraguan protests, 2014-present" for the sake of keeping a timeline (agree with you Jamez42 that a timeline of events is useful), and then additionally have the subpage you created about 2018 protests that can go into more detail, perhaps renamed "Nicaraguan protests, 2018" (just invited followers of that page to join this renaming discussion). My main objective in bothering to rename entries that stick to chronological divisions is just to lead with a word readers are likely to type into the search box; I think unless you're a WP editor, I think readers are not likely to begin by typing in "2018" to look for info on these protests.

What do folks think? Typically I subscribe to WP:NODEADLINE but I think readers could use the info we have now and I think the current names are keeping them from finding it, so I'd love to make some change sooner than later. Could add a redirect but that only gets in the way if we'd like to move the page there. Innisfree987 (talk) 23:54, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

@Innisfree987: Regarding the dates, while I'm not Nicaraguan and I'm not used to the country's history, I think I can give my two cents from what I know of the Venezuelan case. I recently changed the end date of the 2014 protests from December to 8 May, which was the day when several camp sites were taken down by the police. Despite of this and the fact that the political opposition held negotiations with the government, smaller protests continued. I can only think of the date of the last death as a point of reference. In any case, a month can still be given as an estimate, specially since I suppose there wasn't a formal end date, and what's more important is to leave the situation clear to the reader.

From what I see, "(year) (country) protests" is the most common naming convention for this type of articles, I'm not sure if there are other editors that would oppose "Nicaraguan protests, 2018". Maybe "Nicaraguan protests (2018)" could be considered? On the bright side, the article was posted in the front page as ongoing, hopefully that will give the articles more exposure. I'm going to ping some of the users involved with the Spanish article to see if they're interested in commenting @Ryoga Nica:@Ksn.kenny:@MarioGom: --Jamez42 (talk) 00:44, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Merger discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Seems to be significant and confusing overlap between 2014–2020 Nicaraguan protests and 2018–2020 Nicaraguan protests Abcmaxx (talk) 21:18, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, they should probably be merged. Furthermore, I have no idea why they are still listed as ongoing, when the last reported event in one article is from more than half a year ago, while in the other it's more than a year and a half ago. I'd say they should be merged and the article should be updated. If nothing is happening anymore, they should be listed as an event that has ended. Goodposts (talk) 23:14, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Strong support Basically one protests. MarioJump83! 10:30, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

The articles should be merged into a single article, the 2018 Nicaraguan protests. A similar problem has happened with the Venezuelan protests articles. The remaining and unrelated content to the year can be merged in other articles. --NoonIcarus (talk) 14:34, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

• Keep but rename. I think there should be a page just for the 2014-March 2018 protests as a significant and well-defined topic in itself, but April 2018 marked a turning point and I think a chronological division makes sense. These are very long pages anyway; a fork is justified. Innisfree987 (talk) 17:39, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose, keep but rename per Innisfree987. 2018 was a distinct wave of protests that should have its own article, but its content should be further curated to prevent including unrelated content, or that which can be included in other pages. --NoonIcarus (talk) 15:51, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
• It looks like there is a consensus for a change in name, rather than a merge. The question, then, it to what title. For now, can I can suggest just moving the 2014-2020 article to 2014–2018 Nicaraguan protests? That will need a technical move request (as the page already exists), but should be a clean change if approved. That article could include all events up to February 2018, with the other article taking over from April of that year. There's just one 2019 section that would need to be moved. Klbrain (talk) 10:40, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Page move and section move done. Klbrain (talk) 22:47, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Resolved

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

@NoonIcarus: I have closed Talk:2018–2022 Nicaraguan protests#Proposed merge from 2018–2022 Nicaraguan protests to Protests against Daniel Ortega, finding consensus for a merger. Sandstein 13:49, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Proposed merge of 2018–2022 Nicaraguan protests into Protests against Daniel Ortega

Talk:2018–2022 Nicaraguan protests#Proposed merge from 2018–2022 Nicaraguan protests to Protests against Daniel Ortega NoonIcarus (talk) 23:12, 2 August 2023 (UTC)