Help talk:IPA/Czech/Archive 1

Recent split

I agree with the split of this and Help:IPA for Slovak, but the old talkpage at help talk:IPA for Czech and Slovak should be kept as it is since it was about both languages.

Peter ^Isotalo 17:23, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, I agree with the talkpage too. And I'll try to make both new pages better and more correct. Radoslav Ivan (talk) 18:51, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. I've just archived the old discussions. Peter238 (talk) 00:51, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Merge with Slovak

I have a Slovakian friend and she told me she understands Czech. Wikipedia tends to group together closely related and mutually intelligible languages like Valencian (Standard dialect) and Catalan; Turkmen, Turkish and Azerbaijani; Finnish and Estonian; Bulgarian and Macedonian; Asturian, Extremaduran and Mirandese; Serbo-Croatian, etc. So because this seems the most common practice in Wikipedia and because my friend understands Czech, I request to merge both languages — Jɑuмe ^(dis-me) 08:08, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

• Weak oppose. Yes, it's true that these languages are similar, and that people from Slovakia have a practically native-like understanding of Czech (though it doesn't work the other way). Standard Czech and Standard Slovak are based on different dialects, so in that case they are like Bulgarian and Macedonian, but not like Catalan and Standard Valencian, or the four standards Serbo-Croatian. I'd rather keep things as they are right now. We also have a couple of symbols that are used exclusively when transcribing Czech, or exclusively when transcribing Slovak. Merging these guides wouldn't be very problematic, although things are a little more clear and easier to understand with separate guides for Czech and Slovak. Peter238 (talk) 18:11, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Your statement is not right. Standard Catalan and Valencian are based on different dialects (just like Czech/Slovak, European/Brazilian Portuguese and Bulgarian/Macedonian). We have exclusive symbols in the standards of Catalan and Portuguese too, but that's not a problem for us. IMO by blending both keys we'd help many readers and users to understand the differences between Czech and Slovak. — Jɑuмe ^(dis-me) 14:58, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, but you're wrong about Portuguese. We're talking about being based on different dialects, not merely being different dialects. Portuguese was brought to Brazil by Portuguese people (see Brazilian Portuguese#Portuguese legacy), and it evolved from there. Of course, the end result is somewhat different to the contemporary European Portuguese, but that's akin to the differences between, say, British and American Englishes, which obviously do differ to a certain extent.

Judging by the current state of both Help:IPA for Czech and Help:IPA for Slovak I honestly fail to see how such a key would help the readers understand the differences between Czech and Slovak (that is, apart from the presence/absence of certain sounds). Perhaps you'd like to expand Comparison of Slovak and Czech instead? Peter238 (talk) 08:14, 10 January 2016 (UTC)